Debates of May 8th, 2019

Justice

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is shameful that the Prime Minister does not have the fortitude to answer these questions himself. Long before any charges were laid against Vice-Admiral Norman, the Prime Minister told the media that it would inevitably wind up before the courts. Today, Vice-Admiral Norman's lawyer described those comments as “an extraordinary event”.

How did the Prime Minister know that this would end up in court before any charges were made, and why will he not stand and answer these questions for himself?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in February the Public Prosecution Service of Canada said that there was no influence in this case and it reiterated that today. By claiming the opposite, the opposition is raising doubts about our justice system and our legal institutions.

We are very proud that the system worked as it should.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Vice-Admiral Mark Norman had the honour and integrity to face allegations against him, himself. The Prime Minister does not have the same fortitude or backbone.

Let us look at what Mark Norman's lawyer did say. She said, “There are times when you agree with what happens in a court” and at “times you don't and that's fine, but what you don't do is you don't put your finger and try to weigh in on the scales of justice. That is not what should be happening.”

That is exactly what the government did in trying to block and obstruct evidence coming before that court. What is in those documents that the Prime Minister is so afraid of?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, my office had no say in the decision to stay the charges. This decision was made by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.

I did not give any instructions or directives, and neither I nor my office had any contact whatsoever with anyone regarding the decision to pursue or stay the charges. The director of public prosecutions said so in February and she repeated it today.

The Environment

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians wake up daily to alarming news about mass extinctions and catastrophic climate change, and yet Liberals are planning to steamroll ahead with the Trans Mountain pipeline, despite the NEB not fully considering the impacts to climate, despite toxic tanker traffic and threats to the coastline and despite indigenous concerns.

Better choices will lead to better results. Will the Prime Minister stop spending billions on pipelines, and instead invest in the clean energy economy of the future?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, I was at the G7 meeting in France, where we talked about how we need to take more action on climate, how we need to take action on nature and how we need to do it in an affordable way while creating good jobs. That is exactly what we are doing.

We are putting a price on pollution, giving the money back, such that a family of four in Ontario receives $307. We are tackling our biodiversity challenge and protecting nature by doubling the amount of nature that we protect in Canada. We know that we need to tackle climate change. We need to protect more nature. We need to do it in a way that creates good jobs and grows our economy.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, even though it poses a danger to our coast, to marine life and to ecosystems; even though indigenous communities said in consultations that it should not move ahead; and even though the court of appeal found that the Liberals had not done their homework, the Liberal government is going to move forward with the Trans Mountain expansion anyway. Indigenous and coastal communities have clearly stated that they do not want this pipeline.

Why do the Liberals refuse to listen?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

Mr. Speaker, we are following the guidance of the Federal Court of Appeal to move this process forward in the right way, through meaningful consultations, and we are making progress every day.

The NEB's report, completed on time, marked an important milestone in this process. On indigenous consultations, our teams are on the ground and they are engaged in a meaningful two-way dialogue. On this side of the House, we are working each day to get this right.

Justice

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Vice-Admiral Norman's trial has been a debacle from the start. People deserve to know the truth about allegations that the Prime Minister's Office interfered in the judicial process yet again. As we saw in the SNC-Lavalin case, the Liberals have no respect for the independence of the system.

Will the Liberals launch an independent investigation into credible allegations of interference by the Prime Minister's Office in Vice-Admiral Norman's case?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government did not play any role in the prosecution of Vice-Admiral Norman. My office did not play a role and neither did the PMO.

This decision falls to the director of public prosecutions alone. Today, she said, as she indicated in February, that there was no outside influence in the proceedings.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that runs contrary to what we have heard from Mark Norman's defence team. They have raised serious concerns about Scott Brison, about the Liberals' cozy relationship with the Irving companies and about political interference directly from the Prime Minister's office.

Sunshine is the best disinfectant. Canadians deserve the truth. Why is the Prime Minister refusing to hold an independent investigation into the Liberals' troubling handling of this case?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the director of public prosecutions stated today, as she stated in February, that there was no contact or influence, including political influence, from outside the PPSC, either at the step of the initial decision to prosecute or the decision to stay the charge.

On this side of the House, we believe in our judicial institutions and we believe in our prosecutorial institutions, unlike the previous government, which had a record of interfering with the courts.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this was said today in the press: “I have an important story to tell that Canadians will want and need to hear.”

We have had documents withheld, we have had witnesses silenced and we have seen a personal attack on the reputation of a revered public servant. I am not talking about SNC-Lavalin. What I am talking about is the trial of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.

Will the Prime Minister do the right thing and apologize?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, as the Public Prosecution Service of Canada confirmed today, every decision was made completely independently. Let me quote from that statement:

No other factors were considered in this decision, nor was there any contact or influence from outside the PPSC, including political influence in either the initial decision to prosecute Mr. Norman or in the decision to stay the charge today.

Any accusations otherwise are absurd.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what is absurd is the fact that these cabinet ministers are being sent out with such flimsy lines and actually do not address the matter. The matter, simply put, is that Vice-Admiral Mark Norman had to spend the last two and a half years scraping and fighting and defending himself while the government sat back and let it happen. It did not produce the documents it was supposed to. In fact, the Prime Minister, on two occasions, said that this matter would end up in court even before the RCMP laid the charge.

What is the government afraid of?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, based on the decision today, the charge against Vice-Admiral Norman has been stayed. Based on today's decision, my deputy ministers have reviewed the policy in place regarding Vice-Admiral Norman's request to have his legal fees paid for as it relates to this case. I agree with this advice and I have authorized it.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, now, that is quite the coincidence. After we learned that the former parliamentary secretary to the minister of foreign affairs was going to testify against his own Liberal government in the Vice-Admiral Norman case, the charges were dropped.

Once again, this Liberal government attempted to interfere politically, as it did in the SNC-Lavalin case. What was the strategy of the Prime Minister's entourage? It was to tarnish the reputation of Vice-Admiral Norman.

What is the Prime Minister hiding from Canadians?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada did say today, as she did in February, that there was no outside interference in either the initial decision to prosecute Vice-Admiral Norman, or during the trial, or in the decision to stay the charge today.

It is therefore clear that there was no interference and that the system worked as it should.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, even before the RCMP filed charges, the Prime Minister said that this would probably end up in court.

After trying to destroy the reputation of the former attorney general in the SNC-Lavalin case, this government tried to completely tarnish the reputation of Vice-Admiral Norman, a man of integrity who stood up to this Liberal government's interference in our justice system. The Vice-Admiral even paid his own legal fees, which amount to $500,000.

When will the government and the Prime Minister—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. The hon. Minister of National Defence.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, first I want to encourage the member to actually read the statement from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, which I will quote again:

No other factors were considered in this decision, nor was there any contact or influence from outside the PPSC, including political influence in either the initial decision to prosecute Mr. Norman or in the decision to stay the charge today.

When it comes to the legal fees, I have authorized for this payment to occur.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, service to country is an honourable profession and to be willing to give one's life in the defence of the nation should be revered, but what this government has done to Admiral Mark Norman undermines the values of our nation that every person who serves in uniform is willing to fight to defend. The use of code words and the withholding of documents to tip the scales of justice is clear political interference.

Why does this Prime Minister think that it is acceptable to behave in this manner?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have stated a number of times over the course of the last couple of weeks, this government, and my department in particular, fulfilled all of their obligations with respect to documents requested in the proceedings. All the priority documents identified in the month of February had been given over at the point of trial.

This prosecution was directed by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. It is independent of the government and of my department. It proved today that the system works.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is unwilling to admit that politically interfering against a man whose only desire was to serve Canada honourably was wrong. There are many members on the other side, including in cabinet, who served this country in uniform. We swore an oath to serve and defend this nation and the values for which it stands.

Putting service ahead of self takes courage. When will they find the courage to stand for what is right and honour their oath to serve this country ahead of the leader of the Liberal Party?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for all the members who serve our Canadian Armed Forces and our veterans as well, including all members in this House. We should not compare one service over another, regardless of party affiliation, and we honour that.

Our defence policy makes sure that it is fully funded and we are going to be focusing on looking after our people. We have increased our defence spending by 70% and we are putting a premium on looking after them and their families.