House of Commons Hansard #433 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was debate.

Topics

Federal Courts ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Federal Courts ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to order made on May 28, the division stands deferred until Wednesday, June 19, at the expiry of the time provided for oral questions.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:30 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, in relation to the consideration of the Senate amendments to Bill C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, I move:

That debate be not further adjourned.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period.

I invite all hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their places so the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in the question period.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Foothills.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

June 13th, 2019 / 6:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this incredible disrespect for Canadians across the country, that the Liberals would shut down debate on probably one of the most controversial pieces of legislation that the Liberal government has put forward.

Six premiers have signed a letter, stating that the legislation would devastate their natural resources development and economic opportunities. The Prime Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change have said that the letter from these premiers, who were duly elected by their constituents, by a vast majority I may add, is pandering to a small and disgruntled portion of the population. These premiers represent about 60% of Canada's population, more than 60% of our GDP. It is absolutely disrespectful for the Prime Minister and the parliamentary secretary to say that they are pandering and are a challenge to national unity.

Then, as a response to that, the Liberals have come here this evening and have shut down debate on the consideration of 187 amendments from the Senate, of which they have thrown aside the majority. This is an incredible disservice. The Liberals said that they would be doing government differently, that they were going to be open and transparent and that there were going to be sunny ways.

The Senate went across the country and listened to thousands of stakeholders. The majority of those stakeholders brought forward very real concerns about what the legislation would do to their economic opportunities not only in their provinces but in their communities. I am talking about nine different provinces, and the premiers have voiced concerns with the legislation.

It is not just Conservative premiers. The NDP former premier of Alberta, Rachel Notley, the former Liberal premier of B.C., Christy Clark, and the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador have all voiced concerns.

How, in good conscience, can the minister shut down debate on legislation that nine premiers and tens of thousands of Canadians have said would be devastating, without even listening or having any regard for their input on the legislation? How, in good conscience, can she ignore the feelings of Canadians?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Before we go to the Minister of Environment, I want to remind hon. members that we have quite a few speakers who want to ask questions of the hon. Minister of Environment. I also want to remind them that the amount of time the question takes is the same amount of time that the minister has in replying. I want to remind members to keep the questions and answers as concise as possible.

The hon. Minister of Environment.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:35 p.m.

Ottawa Centre Ontario

Liberal

Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change

Mr. Speaker, I would like to correct the record. We are accepting just under half of the amendments proposed by the Senate. We have always believed that we need better rules, because under the process gutted by Stephen Harper, we were not protecting the environment; we were not meeting our constitutional obligations to indigenous peoples; and good projects were not going ahead in a timely way.

We can all agree that we should protect the environment, that we should properly consult with indigenous peoples and that good projects should go on in a timely way. We have spent three and a half years working on this piece of legislation. It has gone through two House committees. It has gone through two expert panels. There have been consultations from coast to coast to coast. We have heard from business leaders. We have heard from environmental leaders. We have heard from indigenous leaders. We have heard from provinces and territories, and we have heard from Canadians. They want better rules, because they want to take advantage of the $500-billion opportunity in the next decade.

We have a huge opportunity to get our resources to market, but we need to do it in a sustainable way, because in the 21st century the environment and the economy have to go together. Canadians know this. Responsible businesses know this. We have seen too often that we are ending up in court. We are seeing too often polarization. That is bad for the environment, and that is bad for the economy. We can do a lot better.

I would encourage the members opposite to join us, to say yes, we want to get our resources to market in a sustainable way; yes, we want to make sure we protect our environment; yes, we want to make sure we do right in consultations with indigenous peoples; yes, we want to make sure we have the trust of the public so we can do what we need to do.

We want to grow our economy, and that is exactly what we are doing. We have created one million jobs with Canadians. We have historic levels of foreign direct investment in our country. We have reduced child poverty, and 300,000 kids are out of poverty now. The typical Canadian family has $2,000 more in its pocket at the end of every year, and we are doing right by the environment.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

Again, I want to remind hon. members that when they ask a question, the minister has as much time as the question lasted to answer it, so keep your questions as concise as possible, and we will get concise questions and concise answers.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, the NDP will be supporting the government motion on Bill C-69, but we do not in any way support this toxic muzzling of the opposition. The motion that has just been moved forward in closure actually allows that. It is important to specify, because Canadians need to know, that this is the fourth time the government has used this new toxic muzzling of the opposition in a closure motion that accords only one member the right to speak for 20 minutes, and after that there is a vote. There is no reply from opposition members and no ability to question. Under no circumstances at all can this be called a true parliamentary debate. It is toxic. It muzzles the opposition, and it is something that even Stephen Harper did not dare to do in the House of Commons.

Next Tuesday, it appears that the government is going to rubber-stamp Trans Mountain. I firmly believe, and so does my caucus, that climate leaders do not try to ram through massive bitumen pipelines. The question is, are they going to use the same toxic muzzling of the opposition to try to ram through the Trans Mountain pipeline, which British Columbians oppose?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to hear that the NDP will be supporting this motion and Bill C-69 and that it knows we need better rules to protect our environment, to engage properly and meet our constitutional requirement with indigenous people, and to ensure that good projects go ahead in a timely way with regulatory certainty.

I would point out that I had the opportunity to be here while the NDP House leader was speaking about his own piece of legislation, and he said that two hours of debate was the threshold for him, so we are also very similar in thinking that this is enough. We have been having discussions around this legislation for about three years: two expert panels, two parliamentary committees, consultations from coast to coast to coast. Canadians have written in. We have had formal submissions from businesses, environmentalists, provinces and territories. We have had meetings.

We believe that we have very good legislation that would enable us to take advantage of the $500-billion economic opportunity of getting our natural resources to market. That would help grow our economy, and we can do it in a way that protects the environment.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment. This is from Cenovus Energy, a major employer in my home province of Alberta:

[Bill C-69] is a devastating blow to the future of the Canadian economy.

It's important to stress that our industry has never asked for a free or easy ride. We expect rigorous regulation and oversight. But when projects meet all reasonable regulatory requirements, proponents and their investors need a level of certainty that those projects will be built. Our industry undertook an unprecedented level of engagement with the government on Bill C-69. We are deeply disappointed that the changes we proposed in good faith, and were told were workable, were not accepted. The amendments we proposed were the bare minimum required for the Bill to be workable. And those recommendations were based on the input of Canadians, including many Indigenous leaders.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, we have a problem in our country. We have polarization. We end up in courts. We cannot ensure that good projects go ahead. What system are we working under? We are working under the system that was gutted under Stephen Harper, that has reduced the trust of the public in how we review major projects, that has not met the constitutional requirement of engaging and consulting with indigenous peoples and, ironically, that did not ensure that good projects went ahead in a timely fashion.

We listened to industry. Industry stakeholders said that they wanted shorter timelines; we have shorter timelines under Bill C-69. They said they wanted certainty about what permits would be required; we said that we would give them certainty about the permits that were required. They asked about what indigenous consultation was required; we said that we would work with them to provide that.

We have created a system that would do a much better job to keep us out of court and make sure that good projects go ahead in a timely way. That should be everyone's goal. Companies and provinces should be saying that they are open for business, that this is a great opportunity to take advantage of the $500-billion investment opportunity, that Canada is a great country to invest in and that they are going to continue creating good jobs for Canadians.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am absolutely shocked at this tactic. Surely the minister must know that when this motion passes, the New Democratic Party will not have had a single opportunity to debate the Senate amendments to this bill by the time it goes to a vote. In what world is that a fair parliamentary process, when the member for Edmonton Strathcona, with all the work she has done on this bill, all the amendments she attempted at the House, is not even going to get a chance to speak to this bill on behalf of her constituents and her party, the third party of the House? In what world is that a fair process with the current government's super toxic closure motion?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am quite surprised that, in the opportunity to speak, issues were not raised.

Let me talk about why we have better rules. We have better rules because we listen to Canadians. We spent the time that was required. We had two expert panels, but also two parliamentary committees, which included members of Parliament. The bill went through the House process. It was supported by the House. We have made amendments, working with senators who wanted to improve the bill. We have accepted amendments. We have accepted 43% of the amendments, because we believe in democracy and we believe in a better process.

However, we need to move forward. We need to create the regulatory certainty that will ensure that good projects go ahead in a timely way, while protecting the environment and ensuring we meet our constitutional obligations to indigenous peoples, and, most of all, that has the trust of Canadians.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, words may fail me, and that rarely happens. This bill is despicable. The minister should be ashamed of the claim she makes on the floor of this House, the claim that she is supported by doing consultations, when she explicitly ignored the advice of the expert panel on environmental assessment. It clearly told the government that it has to review all the projects within federal jurisdiction, not keep the Harper architecture of just project review but look at all federal jurisdiction projects, and keep the regulators out of it; the regulatory boards have no role.

Worse, and no one has spoken to this, the government has accepted an amendment from the Senate that would allow chairing of the environmental assessment process by the very regulators that the minister's $1-million expert panel told her to keep out of the process. The minister has weakened the bill by accepting that Senate amendment, and now we will not have time to disclose that to Canadians. This bill should die right now.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am quite surprised to hear that the member opposite, who cares greatly about the environment, would like to go back to the system that was gutted under Stephen Harper, the system that did not protect the environment, the system that did not properly consult with indigenous peoples, the system that did not have the trust of Canadians.

I share her passion for taking action to protect the environment. I share her concern that we properly consult with indigenous peoples. I also believe we need good projects to go ahead in a timely way, that we need to get it right and that we need to ensure the environment and the economy go together.

We have seriously considered the recommendations. We are very pleased to see broad support among many groups, including environmentalists who were extremely concerned about the amendments being proposed by Conservative politicians. First nations support the bill because they understand that the gutted system under Stephen Harper did not work for the environment, did not work for the economy and did not work for Canadians.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, earlier today in question period, the minister, in a response to one of my colleague's question on the bill, cited the Senate had travelled across the country. Yet, the minister who is citing this feedback is standing here and shutting down debate on this bill that industry has said will ensure there is no more investment in the energy sector for years to come.

Everything the minister has said today is talking points and hogwash. When we talk about real change, on a bill that has such detrimental impacts for our economy, why are we not debating a major, extreme package of amendments from the Senate on this? The Liberals are trying to ram this bill through in the dying days of Parliament to the detriment of hundreds of thousands of workers, not just today but for the future of our country.

The minister has never reduced greenhouse gas emissions in the country. Her carbon tax is a cash grab. The Liberals have no environmental plan, and now the minister is shutting down debate on an amendment package that has a material impact on my constituents and virtually everybody else's who is sitting on this side of the aisle.

That is wrong and it is divisive. It is that minister who is starting a national unity debate in the country. If she is any modicum of respect for this place or for Canadians who work in the energy sector, she would at least allow debate on the Senate amendments. By shutting it down, she is abrogating her responsibility to this place and to Canadian democracy. She is ashamed, and she should not be speaking in support of this amendment to shut down debate.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, those were a lot of great talking points, except the reality is that under the gutted system under Stephen Harper, those workers' jobs were put at risk. Good projects could not go ahead in a timely way. We ended up in court far too often. The Trans Mountain expansion is a great example. There were not proper protections for the environment and consultation with indigenous peoples was not there.

Stephen Harper gutted a system and as a result, we ended up in court. That is the truth. We really need to move forward as a country. We need to ensure we take action to protect the environment and to grow the economy. That is why we are doing this. We want good projects to go ahead in a timely way, but they will not go ahead if we end up in court, if we do not consult with indigenous people, if we do not protect the environment. In the 21st century, we will not get good projects going ahead.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Liberal Anthony Rota

I want to remind hon. members that the process and procedure is a question is asked and the minister answers. I would like to hear what the hon. minister has to say. We will keep it down on both sides while a question is being asked and while the answer is being given.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

Cape Breton—Canso Nova Scotia

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment

Mr. Speaker, let me first voice my absolute admiration for the Minister of Environment and Climate Change. She has been an incredible champion for the environment. She has done an outstanding job in this portfolio. When I see the continued barrage of personal attacks, especially from the Conservatives, that is what is shameful in this whole debate.

Having been here for 19 years, I remember the Sydney tar ponds. I remember that being the worst toxic site in North America. With the greatest admiration for my friend from Saanich—Gulf Islands, if it were up to her, we would still be talking about the Sydney tar ponds rather than having it cleaned up. We took action. We put $280 million into that project, and that project is pristine now.

As far as the New Democrats go, I remember getting bellowed at every day about the Kyoto accord, “When are the Liberals going to do something about Kyoto?” When the vote came for closure on the debate, 13 out of 26 showed up. They voted against closure.

She is a minister of action. I support her wholeheartedly.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I cannot tell you how much I will miss this hon. member in the House. He knows what it means to be a great parliamentarian. He knows that we should have good debate and that we should not have name-calling. He knows that we should work together to build this great country.

We have a $500-billion opportunity to take advantage of, and instead of fighting, we should come together. We should say that we understand that the environment and the economy go together. We should say that we understand that climate change is real and that we need to take serious action, including putting a price on pollution, because it is the most efficient way to reduce emissions. We should say that we need good projects to go ahead in a timely way. That is what I have been working tirelessly to do day in and day out with this amazing Liberal caucus, and I am going to continue to do that.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, as members know and the government has heard, we are supporting the bill. However, at the same time, the Liberals are shutting down debate with a super-closure motion for the fourth time. This is something that even the Harper government did not do and did not impose on Parliament. The minister is going to have an opportunity to speak for 20 minutes and we are not even going to have a chance to ask any questions. There are a lot of concerns. We actually would like the bill to go even further.

I would ask the government why it has decided to take away the democratic right of this place. The Liberals promised they were going to be moving forward in an open and transparent way, listening to the concerns of Canadians. However, here we go again, where they are imposing a super-closure motion to move this legislation forward without even hearing the concerns of Canadians from coast to coast to coast around this important piece of legislation.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member opposite for his advocacy on the environment. I know how much he cares about the environment, and I have seen his actions.

This is a priority piece of legislation. We have listened to Canadians from coast to coast to coast. We have had two parliamentary committees, two expert panels, but this bill languished in the Senate for almost a year, because Conservative politicians did not want it to continue to move forward. They did not understand that the environment and the economy go together.

The good news is that there were very conscientious senators who recognized that we have the opportunity to get this bill right. They proposed amendments. We accepted the amendments that would strengthen the bill, and we need to move forward now.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Speaker, this is challenging. The emotion that our colleagues are hearing is because we are experiencing job losses in our ridings. I literally just got off the phone with another major employer in my riding that announced a major closure this morning and is announcing another one tonight. Why is that? It is because of the inconsistent messages and the shaky policies that the government is putting forward.

The minister wants to stand there and say that we should be getting together and developing policy that everybody can agree with. However, the challenge is that when people offer their insight, the Liberals do not listen.

She is spewing the talking points that environmental groups, such as Tides, Greenpeace and WWF have all used to tarnish our natural resource sector. In October, when Canadians put the minister out of work, which environmental group is she going to go to, Tides, WWF or Greenpeace?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedImpact Assessment ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I find that very confusing. My background is actually in corporate law. I am just trying to get a good system that makes sense.

I feel very badly for the people in the member's riding who are losing jobs. That is a very big concern. However, that is why need a better system to ensure that major projects do not end up in court, that we do not end up having polarization around major projects, that we can figure out a way to move forward, because we need to do that.

We have created a million jobs with Canadians. I am sorry that there are these instances in his riding, which I think is really important. Every Canadian should have a good job, and that is what we work on every day. We have raised 300,000 kids out of poverty and families have $2,000 more every year.

We are continuing to work hard, but the only way we will be able to get projects ahead, including in Alberta, is if we have a system that does not end up in court as opposed to projects going ahead.