Debates of June 13th, 2019

Bill C-68—Time Allocation Motion

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have a great deal of respect for the House and the parliamentary process. The things my colleague said are completely false.

We have had an enormous amount of debate on the bill, as I said. Again, I will provide more context for the hon. member. There have been almost 39 days of debate collectively between this chamber and the other House. We heard from 46 witnesses at the House committee and 15 additional witnesses in the other House.

I think most Canadians would expect that we get on with the business of governing, as 39 days is an enormous amount of time. We have listened and we have incorporated many amendments that were suggested, both here and in the other House. Now it is time for us to make sure we deliver on the commitments that we made to Canadians in 2015.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I sat in on all of the debates in the House and at committee on the House side. Time and time again, there were requests from first nations and from our side for extended consultations and study time, yet the government members at committee shut them down. It is just like the fake consultation they are doing here.

I hope the minister will set aside his talking points and actually speak about what we heard, especially yesterday at committee when we studied the Senate amendments to Bill C-68. We heard that the only people opposed to third party habitat banking were DFO staff, as directed by the fisheries minister.

Why is it that the fisheries minister and his staff are the only ones opposed to the third party habitat banking amendments? Why can the minister not accept that we could create net habitat gains through third party habitat banking? Here he is, trying to shut down debate on it.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, maybe my hon. colleague was not in the House when I spoke earlier. We said we are very much open to the discussion around third party habitat banking, but of course it draws in provincial jurisdiction, and it would be irresponsible to move forward with a provision that implicates the provinces without having appropriate consultation. We have asked the standing committee of the House to work on this issue, and we will certainly continue to look at it going forward.

However, I would also say that it is a little rich for the folks on the other side of the House to say that we are not consulting sufficiently, nor debating sufficiently. When they gutted the Fisheries Act in 2012, they hid it in an omnibus bill. There was no debate.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, in Atlantic Canada, the fishery is the lifeblood of rural communities. One of the things that fishermen raised with me from the very first day I was elected was the importance of legislating protection for the owner-operator model. Independent fish harvesters' associations are incensed with the Conservatives' attempt to shut down the debate to delay the implementation of this bill.

I am curious if the hon. minister could explain the importance of the owner-operator model and his commitment to getting this done so we can protect the Atlantic Canadian fishery, once and for all.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are very much committed to the owner-operator model, and that is why there are provisions that enshrine the fleet separation and the owner-operator model in Bill C-68. It is something that has enormous support among fish harvesters in Atlantic Canada, and I think the Conservatives are going to have to explain to the fish harvesters in Atlantic Canada why they are opposed to Bill C-68.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are trying to use the Fisheries Act as environmental legislation, when the federal government already has protections established under the Canada Shipping Act and the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. This is the federal government creating legislation with Bill C-68 to interfere with provincial legislation as well as the constitutionally protected private property rights.

Liberals slipped in a section after third reading, so we were unable to debate it in the House. At the Senate committee, testimony from OPG said, “One of the outcomes was that the city of Montreal would have been under a metre more of water if we had not had the ability to store water on the watershed because of flooding in the Great Lakes.”

Furthermore, we would like to know whether the government will try to do through regulation what it cannot do through legislation.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, simply because there is one piece of environmental legislation, that does not mean that it covers all of the issues that are associated with protecting our environment. This piece of legislation is about protecting fish and fish habitat. That is something that is important to Canadians from coast to coast to coast. It is something that Canadians told us very clearly in 2015 they wanted to see changed, that they wanted to see appropriate protection for fish and fish habitat.

That is exactly what the bill does. We are very proud of this legislation. It has drawn broad support from coast to coast to coast across various groups, and we are delivering on a commitment that we made to Canadians in 2015.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this debate is about the procedure to which parliamentarians are entitled, and that is to engage in debate in the House. What the government is doing is shutting down debate again. I would surmise that the government will continue with this practice, not only for this bill. I would bet anything that after the debate on this bill, there will be another round of closure yet again.

That is what the government is doing, time and again, bringing in closure to shut down debate. I would love to get into the substance of the bill itself, if we are allowed to actually get into debate without closure.

Will the government commit to that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let me once again provide some context for the hon. member. The bill was introduced over a year ago. It has gone through 10 days of debate in this chamber and eight days of debate at the standing committee associated with this chamber. In the Senate, there were 12 days of debate and nine days of committee debate. That is 39 days, in total, associated with debate.

After hearing all of the various perspectives, after adjusting the bill and taking account of some of the considerations that were brought forward, Canadians are now expecting us to act.

I would also say that I have enjoyed the very productive and co-operative working relationship with the former fisheries critic from the party opposite with respect to a number of elements of the bill. We are very proud to incorporate Bill S-203 and Bill S-238, relating to cetaceans in captivity and shark finning, to ensure that they are passed through the House and done in a manner that is appropriate. I have been very happy to work with the former fisheries critic from that party.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister to step away from his talking points. He talked about 39 days. Many of those days the committee was studying the bill for only a few hours. We heard time and again from first nations that they wanted to provide briefs. Over $2 million were provided for first nations to provide briefs to the committee on the study of the Fisheries Act back in 2016. However, $1.2 million were paid out for a compilation of the briefs received by the committee after the study date and the committee had made recommendations on the bill, because Liberal members on that committee would not extend the study.

Why is the minister again shutting down debate on an important bill?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as I noted previously, there were several rounds of consultation that included thousands of submissions from Canadians. One of the consultations was through the standing committee, and the standing committee did very good work in that regard. However, an enormous amount of consultation went into this. There were 39 days of debate in committees and the two chambers.

It is entirely rich to hear that from somebody in the party opposite. When the previous Conservative government gutted the Fisheries Act in 2012, it did it through an omnibus bill with no debate. That is unbelievable. There have been 39 days of debate versus no debate.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Speaker, in 2012, one thing that was entrenched into the so-called changes was something called “self-assessment, that developers and contractors could self-report any damage to fish or fish habitat.

Could the minister talk about how important it is to ensure that it is not left up to people themselves to report doing something wrong? The changes to this bill would change that. To have self-assessment is like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, enhancing compliance and enforcement is an important part of the changes in Bill C-68. We are ensuring that we are protecting fish and fish habitat through legislative protection. We are also ensuring that we are providing resources to the department to do effective compliance and monitoring on an ongoing basis. We have made enormous investments in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in compliance and enforcement, but also in science.

The previous government cut over $100 million from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We have rebuilt that department. It will be far more effective going forward and it will now have the tools to do the job.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, both the hon. minister and his hon. colleague from Avalon are being disingenuous in their comments. Time and again in witness testimony, not one witness could provide any examples of where the 2012 changes to the Fisheries Act led to any harmful alteration, disruption or destruction of fish or fish habitat. Standing before the House and Canadians and making disingenuous comments like that is unparliamentary.

I would ask the minister once again to provide one example of where the changes to the Fisheries Act in 2012 resulted in any harmful alteration, disruption or destruction of fish or fish habitat as provided by any witnesses through consultation or committee work.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I suggest my hon. colleague read paragraph 91 of the Federal Court judgment that speaks to the issue of fish habitat being at risk.

This government made a commitment to Canadians that we would restore the lost protections, protections that Canadians knew were lost when the previous Conservative government gutted the Fisheries Act. It is incredibly important for all Canadians that we not only protect but rebuild the stock rebuilding provisions within this new act. It will help us to ensure that we rebuild major fish stocks, particularly commercial fish stocks, to ensure the economic prosperity of our coastal communities. Canadians from coast to coast to coast are supportive of this and we would ask that the Conservative members opposite get on board.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am generally in favour of this bill, as a biologist working in the country for a very long time. The federal Fisheries Act was often held up as only piece of legislation, certainly in British Columbia, that protected wildlife habitat period. It was very much noticed when the previous Conservative government took away much of those habit protection powers.

However, I want to talk about the pattern of the Liberal government to shut down debate on almost everything. I think this is the 70th time we have had a time allocation or a closure motion. We started off today missing Routine Proceedings and going right to orders of the day because the government was afraid of whatever. I had petitions to present and people may have had private members' bills to propose.

I do not know how many times we have gone to orders of the day, but we are supposed to be debating Bill C-88. Instead we are talking about closure and the shutting down of democracy.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I simply provide context again. This bill was introduced over a year ago. It went through three days of debate at second reading; eight days of debate at committee, including almost 50 witnesses; and four days of debate at report stage. Now it is going through three days of debate in the House. In the other House, it went through nine days of debate in second reading, 10 days of debate at committee stage and three days of debate at third reading. That is 39 days of debate.

Members on the other side are engaging in filibuster tactics to try to delay legislation before the end of the sitting. We made a commitment to Canadians that this legislation was a priority and that we would ensure we would restore lost habit protections that were gutted under the previous Conservative government. We intend to keep that promise.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Speaker, again, the minister cannot provide a single example of any harm to a fish population from the Fisheries Act of 2012. However, his government caused harm to fisheries.

I remember early in the Liberals' mandate when Denis Coderre, who is a former Liberal member and was then the mayor of Montreal, begged and pleaded when we were in government to allow the dumping of millions of litres of raw sewage. Our Conservative government said no. As soon as the Liberal government came in, it allowed the dumping into the St. Lawrence of millions of litres of raw sewage. Was there a Fisheries Act charge? Absolutely not.

Recently, the Liberals introduced the new marine mammal regulations, which will throttle the economy of Churchill, Manitoba, where whale watching is an integral part of that struggling economy. I have contacted the minister on a number of occasions about this and he simply does not care about communities. He only cares about his cronies in the Liberal Party, who do their best to destroy fish habitat, without him even caring. Why is that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the discussion today is to talk about Bill C-68, which would restore protections that were lost when the previous government gutted the bill. If the hon. member went outside of the chamber and had conversations with people out in the communities, he would find that restoring lost protections is very important to Canadians. It is something we certainly intend to do.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to stand in support of Bill C-68. As the representative for New Brunswick Southwest, I heard throughout the campaign and over the last four years from the Grand Manan Fishermen's Association and the Fundy North Fishermen's Association of the hurt that has happened in our coastal communities without owner-operator legislation.

Could the minister speak to what he has heard and how this will help our coastal communities be more secure and comfortable?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, certainly the owner-operator provisions of the bill are of great significance to harvesters in eastern Canada. They have made it very clear to us that they believe this is an incredibly important part of strong, robust and prosperous coastal communities. We agree.

It is very important that independent fish harvesters have the protections they need and that we do what we need to do to ensure we enforce those. By putting them into Bill C-68, we are strengthening that. If the hon. members opposite went to Atlantic Canada and had conversations with fish harvesters, they would find there is virtually unanimous support for these provisions.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we are debating right now is the procedure being used today to limit debate on Bill C-68, not the substance of the matter.

My colleague repeatedly said that there have been 39 days of debate. He feels that is enough, but his assessment strikes me as subjective because we spend much less time, 10 to 12 days, studying 500-page omnibus bills.

At what point would my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, say there has been enough debate? Is five days enough? Ten days? Thirty-nine days? Fifty days? I would like an answer to that question because the minister's assessment seems very subjective to me.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

It is very important that members have an opportunity to discuss and debate important legislation in the chamber and in the other chamber. This has gone through substantial rigorous debate. Many different amendments have been proposed to the bill, both here and in the other chamber. As I said, we have had three days of debate at second reading, eight days of committee hearings, four days of debate at report stage, and three days of debate presently. That is 10 days of debate, and eight days of debate in committee. In the other House, nine days in second reading, 10 committee meetings and three days at third reading. That is a total of 39 days of debate.

It is important we surface issues. We have had all kinds of time to do that. However, Canadians also expect that we are going to act, that we are going to ensure we meet the commitments we made to them in 2015, and we intend to do that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, again, the minister is misleading the House and misleading Canadians. He claims 39 days, but those days were not full days by any means. Many times, even the debate at the committee stage and even though it was only partial hours, those debates were interrupted by votes in the House, similar to this, where the minister is shutting down debate again.

We have asked the minister multiple times to provide any proof of any harm, alteration or destruction of fish habitat resulting from the 2012 changes to the act, and the government has provided absolutely none. Again, the minister is misleading the House and misleading Canadians by claiming the loss of protection. Those claims are absolutely false. I would ask the minister to apologize, not just to the House but to Canadians, for misleading them with such false information.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, once again, let me just emphasize how rich it is that the hon. member opposite talks about a lack of debate.

What debate and consultations did the Conservatives engage in when they changed the Fisheries Act in 2012 through an omnibus bill? What consultations did they engage in when they cut $100 million from the operating budget of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, gutting the scientific capacity of the department?

This government is investing in science. This government is investing in the fisheries sustainability, in restoring fish stocks. This government is putting a legislative framework in place to ensure we are protecting fish and fish habitat.

You folks should be ashamed of yourself.