Debates of Nov. 24th, 2020

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my hon. colleague for splitting his time with me. I also want to make note and thank a previous speaker, the member for Sydney—Victoria. Wela'lin. For people staying up late to watch the main estimates on fisheries, it was an important historical, personal and very relevant step toward reconciliation to understand who Donald Marshall Jr. really was.

I will ask the hon. member a number of questions. They are in the context of my extreme level of panic that Pacific wild salmon are in collapse and that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans does not seem to understand the level of urgency around a multifaceted and multi-layered crisis.

I will focus with my bit of time on some very specific questions.

Based on advice that the fisheries and oceans committee heard before prorogation, the only thing to do with the Big Bar slide to help the salmon in the Fraser River is to get a fish ladder in place. Has the Department of Fisheries and Oceans commissioned and contracted for the engineering and construction of a fish ladder as a permanent solution on the Big Bar slide?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, with regard to the Big Bar landslide, we have made significant progress but know that more has to be done. We are currently in the process of building a natural fish passageway. That is one of the things that has to be done to make sure we address the concerns in the Fraser River with regard to the slide.

We have been taking a multi-level government approach to this. We have the province behind us, we have worked with indigenous communities in the area and we are going to continue to do everything we possibly can to address this concern.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, I take it the answer, then, is no. I would urge the minister to look at the testimony we had before the fisheries and oceans committee specifically from first nations leadership that the only solution, and it is going to be expensive, is a permanent solution with engineering and building a fish ladder. It must be done.

I want to move to the issue of recommendation 19 of the Cohen Commission and the Discovery Islands. The minister and I exchanged concerns about this issue during question period some months ago. I am desperately concerned that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans constructed its review of the threat to wild salmon from the fish farms specifically excluding the parasitic effect of the sea lice that escape and affect wild salmon. It did not take those into consideration. Within the minister's own department, Dr. Kristi Miller has done important work on this, which appears to have been excluded from consideration.

Why is it that we have not taken action, as the Cohen Commission recommended, to protect our wild salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to clarify for my hon. colleague that we actually have contracted for the Big Bar ladder. That is the natural fish passageway. I want to clarify that it has been contracted. We are working on that. We know it is an important part of making sure the salmon are able to traverse the river.

With regard to the Discovery Islands, protecting the wild Pacific salmon is a priority for us, and we recognize the first nations' historic cultural connection to wild salmon. Our government manages risk from sea lice using a science-based adaptive management approach. This spring, in consultation with our partners, my department revised the licences of marine aquaculture finfish operators in British Columbia to increase the enforceability of licence conditions pertaining to the management of sea lice. That is a step we are taking to address the concerns around sea lice.

With regard to the Discovery Islands specifically and the Cohen Commission, one of the things we heard loud and clear from the first nations in those areas was that we could not make a unilateral decision on the fish farms. They are in their territorial waters, and they wanted to have a say. They knew it was important we make the decision, but they wanted to make sure they were—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have to leave enough time for one more quick question.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

With respect, Mr. Chair, the department had plenty of time to consult between the Cohen Commission report and when we did not take those recommendations.

To the southern resident killer whales, I have had other discussions with the department about the sanctuary areas on Pender Island and Saturna Island. Not a single fine has been levied. No one who has violated the sanctuary for the whales has faced any punishment.

Can the minister commit to a much better and more robust protection of our southern resident killer whales?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, absolutely, we are committed to making sure we protect this iconic species. We are taking a number of measures to address the concerns that we hear with regard to the southern resident killer whales. We are going to continue to work with stakeholders and environmental organizations to make sure that we are addressing concerns.

This is an iconic species that nobody wants to become extinct. We are going to do everything we can to make sure that we protect it.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Courtenay—Alberni. I have about 10 minutes of questions for the minister and afterward, my hon. colleague will take the remaining five minutes to round out the evening.

I would like to start by acknowledging the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge, who began his remarks talking about Prince Rupert and his roots in that beautiful community. That is where I would like to start my remarks as well.

I was speaking yesterday with Joy Thorkelson with the fishermen's union and told her that I had this opportunity this evening. She was talking to me about the report on the west coast fisheries licence reform, with which I know the minister is very familiar. Ms. Thorkelson feels that the recommendations in this report hold a lot of promise for her industry. She understands that there are consultations going on at this point, but she does not know anyone who has been consulted.

I would like to ask the minister who precisely is being consulted at this time on the west coast fisheries licence reform report and whether anyone on the north coast of British Columbia is being consulted.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for this report. This was an extremely important report with regard to west coast licensing. We are working to engage stakeholders in British Columbia to identify priority fisheries management and licensing concerns. I do not have the list in front of me with regard to who is being consulted, but I can follow up with the member directly to make sure he has that.

We need to inform ongoing west coast licensing review. We have actually contracted a comparative analysis of Atlantic and Pacific commercial fishing policies and regulations and we have initiated a review of the existing foreign ownership restrictions as well. We know that there is a lot of work to be done. We do appreciate the hard work of the committee in bringing this forward.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, the reason these recommendations are so important, and I believe the minister will agree, is that it is vitally important that we keep as much of the value of the west coast catch in the hands of actual fishermen, especially after two of the worst seasons on record.

Can the minister give us some sense of whether her department is committed to implementing the 20 recommendations from the report on west coast fisheries licence reform?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, this is a very important report. We are actually engaging right now on a number of the recommendations to make sure we are well informed, as we go forward, to make the decisions. We have contracted an analysis to be done between Atlantic and Pacific commercial fishing policies and regulations. We know how important this is to our coastal communities in British Columbia, and that is why we are taking the time to make sure we do the consultations necessary to get it right.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, could the minister inform the House what the timeline is for implementing the recommendations in the report?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, right now we are engaging in the consultations. This will take a bit of time. I do not have a firm timeline in front of me right now, but we know it is important to make sure we hear from a number of stakeholders on this issue—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, funding for west coast salmon stock assessment has been falling since the 1980s. Of course, it was the worst under the former Stephen Harper government, but despite the recommendations from former Liberal fisheries ministers, those funding levels have still not been restored to the levels they need to be.

Stock assessment is particularly important in light of climate change, which, as the minister well knows, is causing a number of impacts on wild salmon on the west coast. The runs are not as consistent as they used to be. We used to have people walking hundreds and hundreds of streams on the west coast to assess stocks. We do not anymore, and we need that information to make good fisheries decisions.

Can the minister tell us if she plans to follow through on the promises of previous Liberal fisheries ministers and restore stock assessment funding?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, under the modernized Fisheries Act, it is imperative for us to have rebuilding plans in place for stocks. We are diligently working on those now, especially for critical stocks that are under threat. We have initiated a number of rebuilding plans. There is more to be done, but we are going to continue this extremely important work.

For me, this is not about conserving a species; it is about growing it. We need to have abundance in our fisheries, and that is one of the things I am committed to.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, the focus of that last question was really around whether the stock assessment funding was going to be restored. I did not hear a specific answer to that question, but I look forward to engaging with the minister in the future.

One of the things I hear when I talk to people in the Skeena watershed about wild salmon is that community consultation and community engagement by DFO are sorely lacking. The department's consultations focus on dealing with specific stakeholders and first nations, but as we know wild salmon affect all of our communities in the northwest. In some cases, NGOs are taking up this role, but it should be DFO's job to engage communities in these vital decisions.

Does the minister recognize that the current approach to public engagement is deficient? Will she commit to resourcing and carrying out broader community engagement in northwest B.C., particularly with upriver communities that depend on wild salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, it is extremely important that communities feel like they are part of the engagement process. That is something we have seen in British Columbia particularly: how engaged the local communities are with regard to habitat restoration. We have seen that through the B.C. SRIF program.

We will continue to work to make sure that we are addressing the concerns around communities that are impacted by the decline of the salmon stocks. I know first-hand how important it is to hear from communities, and I will endeavour to make sure those communities are heard.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, in the Skeena watershed, as the minister may know, DFO has long practised abundance-based management for sockeye salmon. They set minimum spawning escapements and they also set thresholds at which different fisheries are triggered. There is a growing call in the region for DFO to develop similar abundance-based management measures for other species, particularly for chinook salmon. The uncertainty created by climate change means that we need better in-season management tools.

Is the minister aware of calls for this kind of abundance-based management for other species, especially chinook, and does she support moving in this direction?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, as I have said a number of times tonight, the steep declines we have seen in wild Pacific salmon are extremely alarming. We are looking at a number of different measures to put in place to make sure that we are addressing those concerns and that we are building abundance. As I said earlier, it is not just about conserving. It is about growing. That has to be critical as we move forward. I will continue to work with stakeholders, communities and fishers to make sure we are finding the right ways forward with regard to wild Pacific salmon.

I have learned a great deal about Pacific salmon since taking on this role. I know it is a huge part of the cultural identity of British Columbia, and we need to do everything we can to protect it and conserve it.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I will finish my questions with a question about the new Fisheries Act. In many ways, the new Fisheries Act is a solid step forward, but the government has been slow to operationalize the policies and regulations that are so important to the objectives set out in the act.

One important objective, and the minister mentioned this earlier, is the rebuilding plans for at-risk salmon populations. These plans are an important opportunity to support first nations, such as the Gitxzan, the Wet’suwet’en, the Lake Babine Nation and the Gitanyow, who are working to rebuild salmon stocks that historically were vital for food.

What is the timeline for fully operationalizing the new Fisheries Act?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, it is extremely important for us to make sure the new Fisheries Act is fully operational.

We have put a number of rebuilding plans in place already. There is more to be done. Some of the ones that needed a rebuilding plan are now out of the critical zone. We are continuing to do that work. There have already been six rebuilding plans done out of 18. We know there is more to do. There are some coming in the very near future and we are going to continue to work to make sure we are addressing those rebuilding plans.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, we are aware DFO is revising the shellfish aquaculture act later this year. We know there are some good players, but there are some bad players in that sector as well. DFO's relationship with the shellfish aquaculture industry is a stunning example of industry capture where input from science, federal and provincial commissions, and environment advocates has been totally ignored over the past 18 years. Practices and certain players in that industry have been allowed to degrade the marine environment.

The people of Denman and Hornby Islands, and Baynes Sound where I live, are calling for changes to the conditions of licensing for shellfish aquaculture regulations. They need this to happen. The impact of unchecked intensification without proper monitoring or enforcement of environmental impact on aquaculture and vital ecosystems has resulted in continued intensification and proliferation of industrial aquaculture, which has been destructive to the ecosystems that sustain the health of our region. They are calling for the government to use the guidelines of the aquaculture sustainability council. Will the minister do that?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, our government is committed to upholding the independence of scientific work and ensuring that decisions are made on the best available science. That is why under this government DFO worked with Canada's chief science adviser to develop and adopt the scientific integrity policies. DFO is a science-based department and high-quality, impartial science is integral to DFO's work.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, herring is a vital source of the ecosystem. It is the bedrock. It is the forage fish for our ecosystem that wild salmon, cod, halibut, shorebirds and mammals rely on. We have seen a decline in herring on the west coast and right now the only open area of the six herring grounds is in the Salish Sea. We have seen the decline of 129,000 tonnes of biomass just in four years to a predicted 58,000 next year. The government said it relies on indigenous and local knowledge, but the first nations have been asking for it to be curtailed or shut down, and so have local communities. Will the minister do the right thing and curtail the herring sector or shut it down until a whole-of-ecosystem management plan is in place?