House of Commons Hansard #35 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:30 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, people sometimes forget the essential role that maritime fisheries played in the development of Quebec. It was through fishing, among other things, that Europeans first met first nations peoples. Even today, the sea is a crossroads where people meet up, rub shoulders and exchange ideas, but also where they sometimes clash. It was actually to secure control of the fishery that Great Britain and France fought during the colonial era, and it is unfortunately for that reason that some communities remain divided, even today, in the Maritimes.

In the past, this sector has also been the subject of federal-provincial bickering. On that front, no one will be surprised to hear me say that nothing is settled. In Quebec, fishing plays a fundamental role in the economic and social life of many communities in the Gaspé region, the Magdalen Islands, the Lower St. Lawrence, as well as in my home region, the North Shore, and in northern Quebec.

In 2018 the maritime fisheries represented more than 4,500 direct and indirect jobs and generated revenues totalling more than $435 million for the Quebec economy. For many indigenous communities, such as the Innu, Maliseet and Mi'kmaq nations, the fisheries offer economic development opportunities that enable them to envisage a better future based on activities historically practised by those nations.

Fishing is a tangible reality that has been neglected for far too long by successive governments, resulting in the consequences we are familiar with and continue to experience. I am therefore taking this opportunity to outline the approach to marine fisheries that my party, the Bloc Québécois, intends to defend, because we can and we must do better for Quebec.

As members surely know, fishing is a shared jurisdiction under the Constitution Act, 1867. The conservation, regulation and protection of the resource are the federal government's responsibility, while the processing of seafood products and the ownership of the resource are Quebec's responsibility. As the former leader of the Bloc Québécois, Gilles Duceppe, so ably put it, when the fish is in the water, it is managed by the federal government, and when it is out of the water, it belongs to Quebec. If it comes out head first, it belongs to Quebec; if it comes out tail first, it belongs to the federal government. I would add that when it arrives at the processing plant, it returns to Quebec's jurisdiction.

The result of this division of powers is the worst part of Canadian federalism, in other words inconsistency in public policy. As hon. members know, Quebec's motto is Je me souviens, or I remember. Nonetheless, memory can sometimes play tricks on us and even make us forget. In time, we end up taking certain things for granted. The federal government's hegemony over fisheries management is one such thing. History shows us that this was not always that way.

Did hon. members know that for 62 years, the Government of Quebec was in charge of issuing fishing licences, enforcing the law, establishing the rules and developing other salt water fishing activities? Did hon. members know that for nearly 55 years, that management went off without a hitch under a Quebec-Canada agreement signed in 1922?

Did hon. members know that in July 1983, the government of Pierre Elliott Trudeau unilaterally decided to end this Quebec-Canada agreement, thereby sparking another quarrel with Quebec? Let's not forget that. On the contrary, let's remember.

Did hon. members know that the traditional position of the Government of Quebec, reiterated by several successive governments since 1936, is that the provinces should have exclusive jurisdiction over fisheries in their territory? Very few people know that. The Bloc Québécois knows it, and our position on this matter is the same as Quebec's.

By terminating the 1922 agreement, Ottawa did two things. First, it demonstrated predatory federalism by taking away a tool that empowered Quebec to pursue vigorous development of its marine fisheries. Second, it reinforced the inconsistency in public policy. The two sectors are necessarily interdependent.

As a result of this confusion, fisheries development has suffered. As a result, Fisheries and Oceans is failing to publish RFPs in French, even though it was reprimanded by the Commissioner of Official Languages years ago.

As a result, people back home have been protesting for years demanding that the government return what was theirs, meaning access to the resource and saltwater fishing licences, but the department has ignored their demand.

As a result, the regulations are ambiguous and decisions are made opaquely. As a result, small craft harbours have a 25-year infrastructure deficit and communities are withering away. As a result, all the tools are there, but there is nothing to implement a food sovereignty and land use policy.

As a result, fishers feel abandoned, the first nations are legitimately angry and the quotas completely disregard Quebec and the provinces, and in the end, the final result is that there is no result, which is worse. Things need to change.

We need to completely overhaul the procedures at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We think the department needs to pivot towards decentralization. It needs to get back to the spirit of the 1922 agreement and work with Quebec, the fishers and the first nations. Why not restore management of the fisheries to as close to the coastal communities as possible, with full financial compensation?

Ottawa must stop its inept management of resources within Quebec's boundaries. It is time to put some serious thought into the fisheries and the federal government's action, inaction and counteraction on this front.

The Bloc Québécois represents a movement, and, as we did in the past with the St. Lawrence report, we will engage. We expect the government to push for the status quo, but we will not give up.

Quebec is a land of fields, lakes, forests, rivers and mountains, but it is also a maritime nation. Quebeckers are a seagoing people. I want to see Quebec and its territory become a single, indivisible entity.

Now that I have completed my opening remarks, I would like to ask our Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard a few questions.

My first question is about how the department's funding is allocated. I would like to know if the minister feels that every region her department covers receives its fair share of funding.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

South Shore—St. Margarets Nova Scotia

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Madam Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for her intervention.

We have seen wonderful investments in the fisheries in the past two years through the Atlantic fisheries fund, the Quebec fisheries fund and the B.C. SRIF fund, making sure that harvesters have what they need through the fish harvester benefit and grant program and through the Canadian seafood stabilization fund. All of this was equitably distributed across all of our coastal regions, making sure that the fisheries were absolutely looked after throughout the area.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, that amount is not nearly enough. We do not consider it to be Quebec's fair share.

Can the minister tell us which province most of her department's employees are in?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, when we were doing the COVID relief benefit programs, we looked at making sure that all of the areas that had been impacted, and all of the harvesters that had been impacted, would benefit from the programs. We saw that right across the country.

We are continuing to work with our provincial counterparts to make sure that we address the concerns we hear from the fishery in her area and all areas, and we will continue to do that.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, since the minister cannot tell us in which province most of her employees are located, could she tell us which province receives the most money in transfer payments from her department?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, I am sorry, my Internet cut out for a second. Could the member please repeat the question?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, I was asking the following: If the minister cannot tell us in which province most of her employees are located, could she tell us which province receives the most money in transfer payments from her department?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, we look at a number of issues when we are looking at making sure that we are addressing concerns in provinces right across the fishery. During COVID-19, when we instituted the fish harvester benefit and grant program, I met regularly with all of my provincial counterparts in Atlantic Canada and eastern Quebec, making sure that their concerns were addressed. I will continue to do that. It is important that we invest in the fisheries in all areas where it has impacts.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, I agree with the minister that it is important to respond to COVID-19, but of course the department must continue with its day-to-day operations.

In that case, if she cannot tell me which province saw the largest staff losses or which province is receiving the most money in transfer payments, I would like her to explain to me, if she still maintains that this is fair, why in 2019 British Columbia received $75.94 million from her department while Quebec received only $12.8 million.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, when we look at investments in fisheries, we look at a number of different things. It was extremely important to us to make sure that Quebec, as well as British Columbia, received funds that they needed, just like Atlantic Canada did with the Atlantic fisheries fund. That is why we instituted the Quebec fisheries fund: to make sure that fishers were able to access funding to grow their businesses and invest in technology. Those are all things that we are continuing to do. We will work with the provinces to make sure that we address the concerns they have, and we are doing that on a regular basis.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, it is important to us because the money that is being invested and the efforts that are being made obviously help ensure the development and, in some cases, the survival of this industry and communities in my riding.

Speaking of fairness, if we look at the numbers for the same year, 2019, we see that Quebec received only $1.52 per capita in transfer payments, while Manitoba received almost double that amount at $2.70 per capita.

How does the minister explain that situation given that there does not seem to be a lot of lobster in that province?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, we are making sure that we are supporting coastal communities right across the country. We are supporting fisheries right across the country, even our inland fisheries. They are extremely important to a number of communities inland as well. We are going to continue to do that.

Making sure that coastal communities are well looked after is extremely important, as is making sure that they have the investments they need to grow their fishery, that they can maintain their fishery and that it is sustainable for years to come. We are investing in science and technology to make sure that those coastal communities continue to have the fishery for the future.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, I can assure you that the communities of Quebec do not feel well looked after. That is not really the case compared to other provinces, and the numbers prove it. I am not even talking about Manitoba and British Columbia. One need only compare Quebec to eastern Canada.

Quebec receives 10 times less funding per capita than Newfoundland and Labrador, which receives $24.55 per capita. Prince Edward Island receives $23.41 per capita, while Nova Scotia receives $19.36 per capita and New Brunswick receives $27.87 per capita.

How does the minister explain that?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, when we look at what is required in coastal communities, we look at a number of different factors. It is important to make sure that we are addressing the concerns of coastal communities. That is why we are making these investments through the Quebec fishery fund, which is a contribution program that is funded jointly by the Government of Canada and the Province of Quebec. We are investing nearly $42.8 million over five years to support Quebec's fish and seafood sector.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Madam Chair, of course supporting the sector does not mean developing it. The objectives that could be met with the necessary funding are not being met, as I said earlier in my speech. It takes investments if we want communities to do more than just survive. I could talk more about this later with the minister.

I would like her to think about all the numbers I gave her and the reality in Quebec. We have thousands of kilometres of shoreline in the north, in the estuary and in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

By comparison with the Atlantic, or the Maritimes region, to which people often try to associate us, even though we are not part of that region or even the Pacific region, does the minister believe that Quebec is underfunded by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, the Quebec fisheries fund is stimulating innovation in Quebec's fish and seafood sector. It supports development, it enables the sector to rely on three pillars for development, it relies on innovation and it encourages development of new products. The infrastructure encourages the use of new technologies, and there are science partnerships that enable the creation of partnerships that improve knowledge and impacts.

We are investing significantly in Quebec through the Quebec fisheries fund in order to make sure that those coastal communities survive, thrive and are there for sustainability for years to come. We are going to continue to work with the Province of Quebec to make sure that we are delivering for those coastal communities.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Chair, with COVID-19 and the support for the fishers, can the minister clarify how many fishers and fish harvesters applied for the fish harvesters benefit and grant program? Is she willing to further extend the application process for those fishers who could not apply because they were out on the water fishing?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

South Shore—St. Margarets Nova Scotia

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Madam Chair, the fish harvester benefit and grant program was one of the only industry-specific programs that was made available.

We recognized how challenging it was for fish harvesters. Because of the way their enterprises were set up, they were unable to qualify for a number of the other government programs that were there. That is why we developed this program. This was close to a half-billion dollar program to make sure that harvesters could get through this very difficult—

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chair Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Chair, will the minister extend the application to the program?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, the program was extended a number of times to make sure that we caught as many people as we could during the height of the pandemic and to make sure that people were able to apply.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Chair, will the minister commit to increasing the transparency of quota licence ownership by creating a public online database of licence holdings in B.C.?

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Chair, with regard to the fisheries committee that actually did the study on the west coast fishery, we are making sure that we are working with British Columbia to identify the priority fisheries management and licencing concerns. This is ongoing work. We are doing it—

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chair Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni.

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Chair, in that same report, it was identified that fish in Canadian waters are a resource for Canadians and that no future sales of fishing quarter licences to non-Canadians should happen.

Could the minister outline what steps she is taking to stop foreign ownership of the quota in B.C.?