Debates of Nov. 5th, 2020

Income Tax Act

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, it is something that I think about a lot and we are doing some important work on this. In fact my colleague, the Associate Minister of Finance, is very focused on this and is doing some really important work exploring precisely that issue and exploring precisely whether there are some other metrics that we can and should be looking at.

As I know the member for Vancouver Granville is also aware, countries like New Zealand have been very effective in bringing some of this thinking into their own economic policies. If we look at how effectively New Zealand has fought the coronavirus, we need to appreciate there is a lot we can learn from them.

Finally, and I think the member for Vancouver Granville was going in this direction, the coronavirus has revealed in a very bleak way how we all pay a price if we leave the most vulnerable among us without resources. That is yet another reason why, in our plan for a recovery, we need to be thinking a lot about how we support the most vulnerable—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Vancouver Granville.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Independent, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, as part of building back better, I am sure the minister will agree that recognition of indigenous self-governments and their empowerment to take back control of their own affairs is important, not only to reconciliation but central to our economic strength.

What the minister might not be aware of is that Finance Canada plays a gatekeeper role in fiscal policy that is in fact impeding the pace of indigenous groups moving out from under the Indian Act. There are more than 100 negotiating tables in Canada where tax policy is one of the biggest issues impacting negotiations.

For one specific example, and there are many, why is it Finance Canada's position that self-governing first nations should not collect property tax under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the member for Vancouver Granville for another really thoughtful question.

I would like to say that another lesson of COVID has been how effective indigenous communities can be when they have the tools and authority to look after their own well-being. We have seen indigenous communities across the country take really tough decisions about protecting their health and well-being on reserve, and those decisions have really paid off.

I agree with the member opposite that we need to really speed up our work on reconciliation and our work on being sure that indigenous communities have the tools they need to control their own fate. That is the answer.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Independent, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, could the minister tell us why it is Finance Canada's position that self-governing first nations are not able to collect property tax under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, we do need to keep working on reconciliation and working on ensuring indigenous communities have the tools they need.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Chair, I think we all recognize that Canada has experienced severe economic shocks periodically over the last century. However, what is notable about the present one is that this was caused by a health crisis. It has not only shown us how important it is to have a strong public health care system, but it has exposed, for all to see, the cracks, the deep crevasses that exist in our public health care system.

I am going to be addressing my questions to health care. The federal government has earmarked $4.28 billion to support provinces and territories with the costs of increasing their capacity to conduct testing, perform contact tracing and share public health data. How much of that funding has been spent to date?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, the member opposite is absolutely right that a core direction for our government has been the understanding that health care is delivered by provinces and territories. We knew that we needed to support provinces and territories with really unprecedented levels of financial support. The safe restart has provided, as the member knows very well, $19 billion to provinces and territories, and then an additional $2 billion for the safe return to school. That came after half a billion dollars of—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Chair, the question was about testing. All the experts tell us that in order to get control of transmission, we must have vigorous testing and contact tracing. How much of the $4.28 billion allocated for testing has been spent? I did not get an answer to that.

I am going to move on. The minister has talked about the importance of social determinants of health. According to the Public Health Agency of Canada's recent report on an equity-based approach to COVID-19, “COVID-19 has underscored the inequities in health that are shaped by these [social] determinants [of health], highlighted how these inequities may be exacerbated in the context of a pandemic, and shown how they can aggravate and prolong the spread of disease, making the pandemic worse.”

Would the government and minister support the implementation of a guaranteed livable income to address the inequities shaped by the social determinants of health?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I absolutely share the member opposite's analysis. I agree with him about the social determinants of health. We are just seeing very starkly both that the coronavirus is ruthlessly targeting the most vulnerable among us and also that we really are our brother's keeper. We are all paying the price for that.

What do we need to do about it? The first step is to have support measures in place now to help all Canadians get through it. The EI and the new CRB measures we voted for on September 30 are playing an important role there. I also think the rapid housing initiative referred to earlier tonight is so important. If part of our fight against coronavirus can be real progress on ending homelessness in Canada, that will be both a necessary and major accomplishment.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Madam Chair, the question was on whether the government supports a guaranteed livable income, and once again, I note that there is no answer to that question.

I want to move to long-term care. We know that 80% of the deaths to COVID-19 in this country happened in long-term care homes, giving Canada the worst record of any OECD country. Given that Canada is currently in the grips of the second wave and outbreaks in long-term care facilities have been rising in recent weeks, can the minister confirm when the national standards mentioned in the recent throne speech will be brought into force? Will the national standards be tied to new federal funding to meet those standards for long-term care in the provinces?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, that is another great question. I share the member's preoccupation with long-term care. I think this is a national tragedy and a national shame. We have to do better. I do not minimize how hard it is to do this.

I want to say to our partners in the provinces and territories that we are there to work with them on it. Significant support has already been provided in the safe restart agreement. We are—

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, my riding is home to the municipality of Mont-Saint-Grégoire, which has the highest concentration of sugar shacks per square foot. They are worried because they have slipped through every hole in every safety net so far.

The latest announcement has done nothing to ease their worries because, to be eligible for fixed costs, they have to compare one year's revenue to the previous year's revenue. As it happens, sugar shacks make their money in March and April only. Technically, that means they would be eligible for the program next March and April only. Moreover, the program does not cover other costs, such as supplies and food, which they have to pay for several months before a season that might not even happen.

What can the minister say to reassure them?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Minister of Innovation]

Madam Chair, I want to thank my colleague for her question.

Obviously, we have a strategy for all regions and all sectors. That is why we invested $1.5 billion in regional development. I believe that investment will help businesses, especially the ones she mentioned.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, help with rent and fixed costs is great, but for some businesses, rent is not their biggest fixed cost. For instance, my riding is home to Rodéo Sainte-Brigide, which took out a huge loan for a new stadium. This business does not have to pay rent, but it does have to pay back an infrastructure loan. These kinds of businesses are also falling through the cracks.

Once again, what can the government say to them to reassure them?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for her question.

I want to say two things. First, I hope the member will agree with me that the rent relief is very important and that we must pass it, because many businesses in Quebec need it.

Second, I agree—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Saint-Jean.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, several specific sectors did not get assistance tailored to their reality.

This was the case for many seasonal businesses in my riding, such as summer camps. Many of these businesses, such as the Centre de plein air l'Estacade, a non-profit in Saint-Paul-de-l'Île-aux-Noix, are struggling.

Would the minister agree to make assistance for fixed costs and rent retroactive, at the very least for seasonal businesses?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for her question.

As I have already explained in response to the Bloc's other questions, our approach with the rent relief is to focus on the future, not the past. However, I agree with the member that seasonal businesses are unique, and I agree that we need to find a solution.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, I hope that the government will think of the future of these businesses and not their past.

Hotel owners in my riding contacted us in September because the application criteria for the wage subsidy were not reasonably predictable. In order to be eligible, owners needed to have paid employees' wages, which means that these employees would have had to have worked.

Come December 19, will these businesses get the criteria for the next period, or will they still hesitate to put their employees to work because they do not know whether they will be able to get reimbursed through the wage subsidy?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, we tried to strike a balance with the Canada emergency wage subsidy and the Canada emergency rent subsidy.

We gave our businesses plenty of certainty. We told them that the help would be there until June 2021 and that it would remain at its current level until December 19.

At the same time, we need to be flexible. We do not know how the economy will be doing or what the public health situation will be. We therefore found—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Saint-Jean has 30 seconds.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, there are businesses that were unable to benefit from the assistance because it was ill-conceived.

I have a company that sublets from the tenant of an owner. That company was unable to access the assistance because the tenant was in a good financial position.

Could the government consider retroactive assistance for people who fell through the cracks?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, once again, we are thinking of the future, not the past.