Debates of Nov. 5th, 2020

Income Tax Act

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chair, my question focused much more on targeted programs.

Because the emergency commercial rent assistance program was ill-conceived, businesses lost a lot of money between March and September. I know that other members have asked the same question, but I will ask it once more to highlight the importance of all the telephone calls we received about this, as well as the importance of small and medium-sized businesses.

Has the government considered making the new measure retroactive to March 2020?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, as the member said, I already answered this question, but I will repeat what I said.

The assistance will be retroactive to September 27. This is important because it means that this program will cover October. That is a good question about making this measure even more retroactive, and it is something we will have to consider. However, I believe that we must focus on the future. We must help businesses that are operating now, and we need to help them keep their doors open in the future. I prefer to focus on that.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Chair, I realize it is questions and answers. I am going to spend my five minutes expanding on some thoughts on what I think is a really important debate here.

One of the things I noticed about the member for Carleton is that he is a master at manipulation of numbers and stats. I would like to demonstrate just why I believe that. The member for Carleton talks about unemployment and tries to give a false impression to Canadians, as if somehow the government is not doing as well as it is actually doing.

Let me give a relatively short history of it. It was not that long ago when we, back in 2015, formed a majority government. The Prime Minister back then said, as all Liberal members of Parliament believe, that our first priority was going to be Canada's middle class and those aspiring to be a part of it. That meant investing in Canadians. Whether it was giving a tax break, supporting our seniors, increasing disposable income or having that extra tax on the one per cent wealthiest in Canada, we recognized the value of supporting Canada's middle class.

We worked with small business owners in every region of our country, and it worked. We generated, with the help of other stakeholders and Canadians in particular, well over a million jobs in the first four years. We were on track to continue to hit record highs. In fact, we have much lower unemployment than Stephen Harper ever had when he was prime minister. Even in Stephen Harper's dreams, he could not achieve what Canadians were able to achieve by having a government that was far more progressive in dealing with our economy, whether it was investing in tax breaks or investing in infrastructure.

Now, we hear the member for Carleton try to give the impression that our policies have not necessarily been working. He talks about our wage subsidy program, and he talks about the rental assistance program and he is saying that they are just not working. Then, he cites as his reason that we have a higher unemployment rate than other G7 countries, not all of them but most others.

When it came to the pandemic, after our getting record low numbers of unemployment, when the pandemic hit there were Canadians in all regions of our country who lost jobs. That is why the Government of Canada stepped up and provided programs such as the CERB. Some 8.9 million Canadians relied on support from the CERB program, a very effective program. The wage subsidy program, part of what this bill is about, provided and saved thousands of jobs throughout our country.

If we look at the results of those programs, and we can add on the rental program, we will see that Canada was far better at getting people back to work. Members of the Conservative Party might not believe this, but it is true. Almost 76% of the jobs that were lost have been coming back as a direct result of our policy. I compare that to the U.S.A., at 52%.

With less than a minute left, I can say that this legislation is good stuff and I suspect that is why the Conservatives are going to vote in favour of it. The legislation would continue on with the wage subsidy program because, unlike the former government, we actually listen to what Canadians have to say. That is why we see the changes that we have within this legislation. Whether it is the wage subsidy program or the rental assistance program, this is a government that recognizes the value of small businesses and will continue to be there.

Our Minister of Finance and our Prime Minister are committed, day in and day out, to protecting the jobs that Canadians are going to continue to depend on to be there. As our policies have clearly demonstrated, they are working.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, will the minister backdate the commercial rent assistance program to April 1 for the tenants who could not apply, now that the government has admitted that it had a design-flawed program that excluded two-thirds of Canadian businesses?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Chair, let me start by pointing out that the rent subsidy that we are debating tonight does go back to September 27.

With regard to going back further, let me just say this. The objective of our program is to support the vulnerable but viable businesses across our country and to help create a bridge for them to get through—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, the minister earlier cited that she wanted to be forward thinking. Does she agree and believe that these small businesses that did not get any rent help for six months are coming forward with them?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, let me point out the help that will be available if we can pass this legislation.

Starting from September 27, up to 65% of wages would be paid, up to 65% of the rent would be paid, and if one is subject to a local lockdown restriction, 90% of the rent would be paid. That is real support and our—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, I ask for just a yes or a no. Does the minister understand or agree that the money, the debt, comes forward?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we have been clear that the program goes from September 27 forward.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, does she believe it is an injustice for those who did not qualify because their landlords would not apply?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it is entirely appropriate for us to listen to the businesses in our ridings. I also think it is appropriate for the government to focus on businesses in the future, viability in the future.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, can she tell us how much money the mortgage company MCAP got paid to administer the CECRA program?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, my focus as finance minister is putting this new rent support program in place, where the support will go directly to tenants.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, has the minister costed out what it would cost to help the two-thirds of businesses that did not qualify for the government's flawed program?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, the key issue here is a question of focus. My focus is on tomorrow, not on yesterday. My focus is on helping businesses get through the second wave.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister feel that small businesses have to focus on the six months where they got no help, yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, businesses have had help since the beginning of the pandemic. They have had loans, including a significant forgivable portion through CEBA. They have had access to the wage subsidy. Going forward, they will have an additional expansion of CEBA.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, many mom-and-pop businesses actually did not get any help with the wage subsidy and they were counting on commercial rent. Does the minister believe that it was an injustice that they did not get any help?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is one of the reasons we put CEBA in place, so that the smallest businesses in our country can get support. That is why we are adding another $20,000, including $10,000 forgivable. It is also—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister agree or believe that, with the amount of deficit that we are running to help everybody, the people who were excluded from the commercial rent assistance program should still have to contribute to paying that back through their children or grandchildren, or whoever is going to pay it back?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, I think it is entirely right for MPs to be concerned about all businesses in their ridings, but I have thought about this really carefully and my view is that the inherently limited resources of the government should be focused on the future. They should be focused on supporting businesses to keep on operating. That means that going-forward support should be and will be our focus.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister believe that there should be some strings attached in terms of the targeted bailouts and full participation of employers in Canada in terms of active and laid-off workers?