House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was ndp.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Madam Speaker, I appreciate and admire the member's passion. She was saying that income security and expanded health care are issues we should be talking about in the House. We are talking about them in the House, but we need to talk about them in a measured, responsible way. She said she does not know what $37 billion looks like. I can assure the member the price tag on items listed in this motion would create a number she would have no idea what it would look like.

Money is going to be raised by taxing excess profit. What does excess profit mean, and how much excess profit would be taxed as a result of this motion?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

5:50 p.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Madam Speaker, in terms of my response regarding what $37 billion looks like, it is what we have personally. It is that wealth that only a few have. Those few have been consistently protected by the Liberal government, by the former government and all the governments before that. That $1.6 billion in profit, all that excess profit made by Galen Weston, and the $1.7 billion of excess profit made by Jim Pattison, is what I am talking about. That is what we need to focus on in terms of the redistribution of wealth in this country to ensure that when those people have so much, the people in our ridings who have nothing and are desperate to feed their kids and pay their bills, have far more. Everyone deserves equality.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

5:50 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Speaker, this is a motion the Green Party supports. We support all of these programs and we think this is a matter of priorities. When we are talking about this extreme wealth, the member mentioned Jim Pattison. We have a coastal defence vessel that shows up every year, the HMCS Nanaimo. It has a crew of 36 people. It is 55 metres long. Sometimes when it is gone, Jim Pattison's yacht shows up. It is a $25-million yacht. It has room for nine crew, 12 guests and a helicopter launch pad. This is a man who has $7.4 billion worth of wealth and gained $1.7 billion during this pandemic. He should be paying his fair share for our health care system, our roads, our water, our sewers and our education systems that help his workers earn him those big bucks.

Does the hon. member think taxing 1% is enough? Should we not tax more?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

5:50 p.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the passion the member brings to this, and I really appreciate his support on this motion. This is a start. This is one of the many things we want to do, to try and get at that income disparity and that disproportionate wealth distribution I was talking about before. I do not think the Jim Pattisons of this world need other yachts. I do not think he needs to buy a bigger house. The people in my riding need affordable houses, and they would gawk at the fact that the Galen Westons of this world pay so little and have so much. I used to work as a cashier at Loblaws. I worked with a lot of students at that time who were just trying to pay their student loans, get by and save a little. When we juxtapose extreme wealth to those people who are struggling, it is simply unfair. We need a different path forward, and making those different choices is what New Democrats will continue to do.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Madam Speaker, it is a real honour to sit in my constituency office today and join you virtually to speak on this important motion that was brought forward by my colleague, the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

I have been listening to the speeches today, and I can see that the Liberals and the Conservatives are most likely going to vote against our motion. That is fine, because those two parties are very much the defenders of the status quo. They are fine with little incremental changes and tinkering around the edges, but they will never, as individual parties, bring forward the substantive change that we need to get progress in our country.

Of course they are going to oppose our motion, because if they were to support our motion, they would in fact be admitting that their records in government have gotten us to precisely the point that we are at today. This is a blemish on their records, because Canada has been ruled by a succession of Conservative and Liberal governments, and we still have these vast systems of inequality that exist in our society. We need to only look outside our constituency offices to see it every day. It is certainly true for the people here in Cowichan—Malahat—Langford.

They may come at us, as New Democrat members of Parliament, and they may come at me, but I do not need their approval. I am here for the people of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford. I am here to suggest and implement policies that are actually going to make their lives better.

There is a real consequence, if the people of this great country do not see their politicians echoing the struggles they face each and every day in their lives. That consequence can be seen just to the south of us in the United States of America, where the American people have looked to the Republicans and the Democrats. The real problem of their political system is that those two parties have become so out of touch in so many ways with the struggles that Americans are facing that it has led to a form of extremism, and we would be kidding ourselves in Canada if we did not recognize that very real threat.

It is time for the politicians of this country, especially at the federal level, to recognize the struggle that so many Canadians are going through and to actually bring forward policies that are going to make a real mark on that. That is why I am very happy to see this motion.

We can look at the statistics, and the fact that Canada's billionaires, during this pandemic, have made out like bandits and seen their profits increase by multiple amounts, while everyday Canadians are struggling. They have seen their jobs disappear. They have seen their small businesses shut down, and those who have been lucky enough to keep their jobs have either seen their hours reduced or the benefits attached to them completely wiped out. This is a huge moment in our country. A lot of people use the word “unprecedented”. We do have precedence. We have not seen this level of struggle since the Great Depression, and we absolutely must take the opportunity that we find ourselves in right now to actually bring forward measures that are going to make a difference.

What are we suggesting as New Democrats? We are suggesting that those at the top, those who have made these kinds of profits, pay a little more, and that those who have made excess profits find those excess profits taxed, as we did in the Second World War, so that those with fortunes of $20 million or more are subjected to a 1% tax. If someone is lucky enough to find her or himself in that position, a 1% tax amounts to little more than a rounding error. This is really to put a sense of fairness and a sense of balance back into our tax system.

The Liberals and Conservatives have been talking in their speeches, giving excuses about why this system would not work or asking about the specifics. The specifics really can be worked out at a later time. What we want to see through this motion is intent: an intent by the government to actually get serious and formally acknowledge, to the people of Canada, that they agree there is a problem, that this motion should be supported and that the specifics should be worked out at a later time.

I talked about the statistics of Canada's billionaires and millionaires. There is also the fact that during this pandemic, when Canada's big banks went looking for money the government immediately offered $750 billion in liquidity supports.

However, we have Canadians, persons with disabilities, who are still waiting or have just received their first payout and we are in the month November. That goes to show the discrepancy that exists in the government's priorities.

I talked a bit about the tax, but let us talk about some of the social programs these tax dollars could pay for. It is quite clearly laid out in our motion. First of all, I want to talk about a guaranteed liveable basic income. The entire New Democratic caucus and I have to give kudos to our very hon. colleague, the member for Winnipeg Centre, for her Motion No. 46 and the amazing grassroots campaign she has launched right across the country.

A guaranteed liveable basic income would make sure a predictable cash payment was provided by the government to all individuals who need it. We would bolster our current social safety net, tackle poverty at the source and make sure people have enough income each month to meet the basic human necessities of finding shelter, paying the utilities and putting good, quality food on the table.

I got into politics because I used to work as a constituency assistant. I was sitting across the table from people who were making those difficult decisions of whether they could pay the rent or put good, quality food on the table. We have been having these conversations in Canada for decades now, and here we are in the year 2020 still talking about them. Forgive New Democrats if we feel impatient about this, but we have been talking about this for decades now and feel it is now time to act.

Another thing mentioned is dental care. Dental care, as we know, is obviously a very big class distinction. One can almost tell a person's status in life by the quality of their teeth. It is also a health issue, because we know good oral health is linked to good personal health. So many people have lost dental coverage and many Canadians have to skip dental appointments because they cannot afford them. This would make a measurable difference in people's lives, as would pharmacare.

Again, our frustration with the Liberals comes from the fact that Liberals have been talking about pharmacare since the 1990s. They love to blame the NDP for it not being brought in, conveniently forgetting all the majority governments they had during that time to bring in a system. Do we need to work with the provinces? Of course we do, but the fact that we have had to wait for so long is a big source of our frustration. We feel that now is the time to put in these kinds of taxes to pay for programs like pharmacare so we can make those measurable increases in people's lives: the huge benefits.

Why are we having these specific conversations on these things? I know people are going to talk about the costs in the questions that come up afterward. Let us talk about the costs of ongoing poverty. Let us talk about the costs when people are unable to look after their health because they cannot afford prescription medications or dentist's visits. Just imagine the billions of dollars we would save in our health care system if we were to address these two gaping areas where people do not have coverage.

Similarly, with the ongoing costs of poverty and the costs that come with increased crime, here in my community of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford we are dealing with an opioid crisis and the amount of money people have had to spend to try to fend that off. These all have very real and ongoing associated costs. When Liberals and Conservatives come forward and talk about the costs, they are being extremely short-sighted. They are not looking at the benefits of implementing these programs that we will realize in later years.

I will end there. I really appreciate the opportunity to once again stand up for the amazing people of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, and I welcome any questions my colleagues might have.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Madam Speaker, the member is well versed in many things, and I would like to ask him about indigenous housing. It has come up a number of times. I have visited with the Siksika Nation in my riding, and they talk about the housing issues they face and the 2,500 homes that will be built across the country.

Given how the member approaches this topic and speaks about this issue, what would he envision for indigenous housing in this country? As 2,500 units are now being built Canada-wide, what would he envision for indigenous people under this piece of legislation?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will correct the record. What we have before us is a motion, not a piece of legislation.

To answer his question, whenever I speak to Cowichan Tribes, Halalt, Penelakut, Lyackson and the many other first nations whose traditional territory my riding of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford falls upon, one of the top issues that always comes to mind is the state of housing. There are overcrowding issues, and houses need a tremendous amount of renovation. As we state in our motion, change has to be led by indigenous people in Canada. They have been telling us for some time now that we need to have a housing strategy in place and we need to get those units built.

My simple answer to the member is that we should listen to the communities within our ridings and let them lead the way. However, we need a federal government that is prepared to act and put forward a strategy in the first place.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Lenore Zann Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, I have a question regarding pharmacare. We all believe in universal pharmacare. We are heading in that direction and hope to introduce it.

How do we bring people from the large pharmaceutical companies to the table? They are not coming to the table to negotiate with the government so we can get the prices down. Sadly, they are using families to do the lobbying for them to try to soften up government so that when they go to the table, they will be able to make more money, rather than trying to do a good deal so that all Canadians can afford life-saving drugs. What does the member suggest we need to do?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, the federal government already has tremendous regulatory power at its disposal to bring these big companies to the table. The power the federal government has when it works out a plan with the provinces is in its ability to purchase in bulk. It has an economy of scale that individuals can only dream of. That is how we bring prices down.

No drug company is going to ignore a market like Canada, which has a population of over 35 million people. This is really about coordinating a response and making sure we have the will to implement it. I simply wish the Liberals had acted on this when they made their promise back in the 1990s. It is sad that we are in the year 2020 and still do not have such a plan in place.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives has said that 30% of senior women living alone are living in poverty. This is compared with 22% of senior men living alone.

I got a message from Joyce Christopher-Thomas from Qualicum Beach. She stated that she has worked hard her whole life and has a university education but cannot afford to live on OAS and GIS. Seniors are facing many challenges and an increased cost of living. She says they are expected to live year after year below the poverty line.

How important is a guaranteed annual livable income to people like Joyce and seniors across the country, who deserve to retire with dignity? I would like my colleague to speak to that.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I always appreciate questions from my friend, the member for Courtenay—Alberni.

He is right. Even before the pandemic struck us, single women, especially senior women, were always living on the margins. I think this pandemic has exacerbated that, only now it has moved to women who used to be part of the workforce.

That is precisely why the New Democrats are putting this proposal forward. We want to make sure that we are taxing the wealthy and excess profits so that we can help senior women and women who have been shunted out of the workforce. We must make sure that we have programs in place like a guaranteed basic livable income. It is absolutely high time that we start addressing this critical issue as a nation right now.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to split my time with the hon. member for Langley—Aldergrove.

I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak to the NDP motion today in order to offer an alternative perspective and, hopefully, some clarity on the matter at hand.

Let me begin by commending Canadians for being resilient, extremely hopeful and dedicated to the betterment of our country. Many are like Michael, who runs a small, local coffee shop in my riding of Lethbridge. He faithfully serves the community despite the personal hits he is taking right now. Others are like Jamie, who is balancing her job at a salon with home-schooling her daughter.

There are others who sadly have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. Many restaurants have had to close their doors, gyms have had to fold and many employees, sadly, have lost their livelihoods altogether. No doubt, the government's response to the pandemic has hurt many people.

The country is facing challenging times because countless individuals are having to deal with significant and unexpected obstacles. Where appropriate, it is important that we as parliamentarians work to give small businesses, workers and industries the help they need to make it through this pandemic.

That is the why Conservatives have consistently put forward amendments that would strengthen the programs that are being offered to Canadians. A few of these suggestions have been taken, but other times, as with the failed rent subsidy program, for example, our suggestions have been altogether ignored. Now, six months later, the government is willing to come back to the table to take up our amendments and implement them, because it knows they are good ideas that will serve Canadians well. Sadly, when the government puts its ego before the people, Canadians get hurt.

That said, even though the government can play a role that is helpful for a short time, it is important that historic events like the pandemic are not exploited by entrenching policies that would actually harm society down the road, post-pandemic. I am talking specifically about the socialist policies that the NDP have put forward and that are being discussed here today.

Allow me to elaborate. If we look at countries that have enforced equalization policies and societal restructuring for the common good, or so said, we can easily see that these types of initiatives should not be replicated. Think of the Soviet Union, Cuba, China and North Korea, just to name a few. It is important that we take a comparative look at other societies that have been governed by socialist regimes. They have never been successful. The very definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again in the hopes that a different outcome will be accomplished.

Though socialism might seem idyllic at the beginning, after a period of time, people end up suffering at the hands of their so-called caregiver, the government. They end up in breadlines, they end up with food stamps and they end up dependent on the government for almost everything. Their dignity is robbed from them. They are turned into victims, dependent on their exploiter. These people are promised free social programs, free education, free health care and government paycheques, but they end up impoverished and with very little freedom, while simultaneously those in the upper class, government leaders, remain fat, well-fed and living in luxury. These are the facts, and we must not overlook them when we discuss matters like the motion at hand.

One of the main features of this motion is that it aims to crack down on those who have been profiting from the pandemic. There is an irony here, however, and we must all tap into it.

For months, Conservative members have been trying to get to the bottom of a scandal that includes the friends and family members of the Prime Minister. They were set up to profit from the pandemic, until they were caught, of course. The Prime Minister's friends at WE Charity were to be given more than half a billion dollars, while his mother, wife and brother collected almost half a million dollars in speaking fees from that same organization.

At the ethics committee, when a Conservative motion calling for an investigation into these pandemic profiteers was put on the table, guess who voted with the Liberals to kill the motion? It was a member of the NDP. If the NDP really wants to stop those who are profiting from the pandemic, would they not want to investigate the Prime Minister himself, who is actually benefiting—

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay, on a point of order.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, people have to tell the truth in the House. I am kind of glad the member is no longer chair of the ethics committee, but if she were, she would know that she is debating my NDP motion to investigate WE. Rather than committing the falsehood she is committing point after point, she should be truthful with the House. Maybe that is why she is no longer chair of the committee.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I think we would put that in the category of debate. We will leave that to the House to take up in the course of the debate before the House.

The hon. member for Lethbridge.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, while the NDP and the Liberals love to talk about giving and receiving, I wish to talk about the value of earning, because it is essential. I am talking about the very privilege of work, the honour of work, the dignity of work. It is an incredible thing to earn what one receives. Studies show that individuals who receive money without earning it are more likely to be depressed and less likely to feel fulfilled.

Whenever we discuss permanently increasing government handouts, we must look at the potential negative ramifications not just for our economy, but for society, which is people. I am always leery when I hear politicians talk about removing burdens from the people and claiming that the government can solve all problems. Clinical psychologists have long said that it is important for people to take responsibility for their lives and to try to make things better. To live does include struggles, because life is hard and there are challenges. However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. If we choose to avoid the challenges in life and the pain that often accompanies it, we end up living a life void of meaning and hope.

Work is part of enjoying a meaningful life. It is a path to growth, to human development and to personal fulfillment. This is just a fact.

I am convinced that government programs are not the answer to getting Canada back on track. Canadians themselves are the answer. It is Canadians who have the ingenuity, the work ethic and the ability to come up with solutions to the problems our country faces. Canadians must be free to use their gifts, their talents and their abilities to further themselves, to benefit their local communities and to get our country back in order. By enshrining policies that could disincentivize earnings, such as the ones that are being proposed today, we are actually robbing people of the opportunity to succeed independent of governments. It would be a shame for Canada to go in that direction.

Ronald Reagan once said, “The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one that gets the people to do the greatest things.” That is true leadership.

Instead of putting the government in the position of the ultimate problem solver and exploiting the pandemic to increase government control in the lives of Canadians, I believe it is best that we give real opportunities to the Canadian public. Let us shift the spotlight to them, onto business owners and entrepreneurs. It is Canadians who are best able to solve problems and generate wealth, not the government.

If we compare countries that are socialist in nature with those that have a limited government and a market economy, the contrast is undeniable. The people who live in societies where the government is not depended on for the essentials of life are certainly better off.

That is why earlier this week, the Conservative members of this place put forward a motion that advocated for small business owners and celebrated them as job creators and thus the backbone of Canada's economy. Allow me to take a moment to thank the NDP for voting in favour of our motion. I do appreciate their standing with us on that point.

Canada already has the highest unemployment rate in the G7, and we know that small businesses provide employment for millions of Canadians from coast to coast. Canadian workers want small businesses to succeed. They want industry to succeed. They do not want two more years of government handouts. Yes, those who are elderly or who live with a disability may need additional assistance, and we should show care and compassion toward them. However, the vast majority of Canadians would like to get back to work. They would like to have the dignity of being able to provide for themselves and their families.

Only the mighty 20 million workers in Canada can bring our country back to roaring success. Let us make that happen. Let us choose to put Canadians before government.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, that was so much fun. I am going to clip that and send it home. This is the Conservative world view: A 1% tax on billionaires will create Yemen. It will create the Soviet Union. It will create breadlines. It is like the flat earth of the 20th century, the Conservative world view.

Meanwhile, the Conservatives stand up day after day demanding support for small business because they are telling us small business does not need government. Actually, they do right now. A 1% tax will give someone the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, we have a party over here that stands up and says we are not doing enough to put up government money and it is not going out fast enough. Let all the entrepreneurs get by. They will get by, but they need support right now. If a 1% tax will create socialism—

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

We are going to have to leave it there and leave time for a response.

The hon. member for Lethbridge.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure why the NDP insists on demonizing work. When did it become a four-letter curse word? When did it become wrong to work hard and want to earn a living for one's family? When did that become wrong? When did it become wrong to start small, build up and establish a fortune? When did that become wrong? Then to use that money in many cases to benefit local communities and benefit people who are underprivileged, that is what these businesses do. Why is the NDP going after them as if their success deserves to be punished?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

It being 6:23 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply.

The question is as follows. Shall I dispense?

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

[Chair read text of motion to House]

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I invite them to rise and indicate to the Chair.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would request a recorded vote.

And one or more members having risen:

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Pursuant to an order made on Wednesday, September 23, the division stands deferred until Monday, November 16, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

Opposition Motion—Tax Measures to Support CanadiansBusiness of Supply

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I suspect if you were to canvass the House, you might find unanimous consent to call it 6:38 p.m. at this time, so that we can begin private members' hour.