House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was ndp.
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, we could have made a choice not to provide the CERB to Canadian workers who lost their jobs because of COVID. We could have chosen not to provide the wage subsidy. We could have chosen not to provide the CEBA. Business owners would have gone broke. Canadians would have lost their homes. That was not our choice; it was the right choice.
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Chair, Canadians have leveraged their assets and their homes to finance their businesses and pay for their everyday expenses. They have gone to their banks and their banks have given them lines of credit and established credit limits.
The Government of Canada has gone to the Bank of Canada. Has the Bank of Canada established a credit limit for the government?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, questions for the Bank of Canada are properly addressed to the Bank of Canada. I respect the independence of the Bank of Canada, and I urge all members of the House to do so as well.
When it comes to Canadian businesses, I know that a lot of Canadian business owners have made great—
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Chair, that shows maybe how the minister has a failed understanding of how finances really work because when Canadians go to their banks, their banks tell them what their credit limits are. Has the Bank of Canada provided the Government of Canada, the borrower, a credit limit?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, if we want to get into a discussion of how finances really work as the member opposite suggests, I think we do need to realize that the relationship between the Government of Canada and the Bank of Canada is entirely different from the relationship between a commercial borrower and a commercial bank.
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Chair, other democracies in our G7 and G20 groups have been able to present budgets even during difficult times like the past six months in COVID. Why has our government failed to produce a budget?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, as we committed to in the Speech from the Throne, we will be providing a fall update later this year, which will provide detailed projections and detailed further information on both what we have done so far and our government's plans going forward.
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Chair, recently the House passed a Conservative motion to put a pause on CRA audits for businesses that have received the wage subsidy. Can the minister tell us why the Liberals did not support putting a pause on the CRA for conducting audits and why they wanted to incur those further hardships for businesses?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, the last thing I want to do is add in any way to the real hardships Canadian businesses are facing. That is why I am here tonight with a brand new rent subsidy program, with lockdown support and with the extension of the wage subsidy. We are here for Canadian businesses and we are going to be here for Canadian businesses with this program until next summer.
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, I want to thank all members for agreeing to take this expedited approach to ensure that we look at Bill C-9 and try get it passed quickly. The minister has spoken a lot tonight about the historic low interest rates and debt servicing charges for the Government of Canada, but the average Canadian is not getting any breaks on interest payments and the six months' deferral on mortgages is over and people are experiencing a real fear of having to go bankrupt on mortgage charges and certainly credit card rates are not going down. It was in April that the previous minister of finance negotiated with the banks to reduce.
Five out of the six big banks experienced higher than expected profits in the third quarter. Will the minister work with the banks and get them to cut their interest rates in half and help Canadians?
Chrystia Freeland LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance
Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands for her as usual very thoughtful question and for her tremendous care for the lives and struggles of Canadians. The issues she raises both about mortgage deferrals and about credit cards are very good ones and this is something that we are monitoring and looking at as we enter the second wave of the pandemic.
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, my next set of questions relates to the tourism sector in particular.
For many of my constituents, rent is not the problem. The tourism industry has fixed moorage costs, which are a lot like rent, and Bill C-9 does not help them.
Would the minister be willing to look at flexibility and realize that, for some businesses, their moorage is their rent?
Navdeep Bains LiberalMinister of Innovation
Mr. Chair, the hon. member is absolutely right. One of the sectors that has been hit significantly is the tourism sector. We acknowledge that, which is why we have been very clear about our support for the sector. This sector employs over 550,000 Canadians, and over the past few years, the Government of Canada has contributed $460 million to it to make sure that we support it. We put in measures through the regional development agencies to provide additional support to help deal with some of the costs raised by the member opposite.
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, I do realize that the Government of Canada has put money into the tourism sector, but it is insufficient.
I will raise a specific example. One of the iconic tourism attractions in all of Canada is in my riding. It is the Butchart Gardens. The wage subsidy did not help it. The Butchart Gardens could not bring hundreds of people back to work this season because there were no tourists, and the rent program does not help it.
What we really need is the kind of program aimed at the regional development offices. We had a tiny dribble of this, but we need a lot, in buckets. Businesses that are falling through the cracks can go there to apply for assistance.
Is additional money being considered for the tourism sector through our regional economic offices?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, I very much agree with the member that, in this crisis, the RDAs have played an essential role. As we have heard from a lot of members tonight, we have put in broad-based programs that have, by their nature, helped a lot of people, literally millions of Canadians and hundreds of thousands of businesses. That is great, but a broad-based program cannot cover every single specific circumstance, and that is where the RDAs have been so important.
I agree with the member opposite on the very important role that the RDAs have played so far in this crisis. We are in a second wave now—
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Mr. Chair, I have a very short and very specific question. The hon. minister may not have noticed an email I sent her earlier today.
One of the charities in my riding, a land conservancy, has a lot of revenue but it is tied to only buying land. It cannot use it for wage subsidies, and now it does not qualify for the wage subsidy.
Can there be flexibility?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, I saw that the member had sent me an email, but to be perfectly honest, I had not had time to open it. I promise to read it when this evening is complete, and to look into the issue carefully.
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Chair, I would like to begin by acknowledging that for so many businesses in northwest B.C., the wage subsidy and the CEBA loans have been keeping them afloat. That is why I will be pleased to be supporting the legislation before us.
My question to the Minister of Finance is about a specific category of businesses that the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands mentioned. In northwest B.C., there are a lot of small tourism operators who have not just lost a percentage of their revenue for the year, but because they depend wholly on international clients, many from the United States, they have lost their entire season.
I was speaking last night with Gill McKean who owns Westcoast Fishing Adventures with his wife, Mandi. They have lost their entire season.
Is the minister considering targeted support of a magnitude that is going to be able to keep businesses like Gill and Mandi's afloat?
Chrystia Freeland LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance
Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the member opposite for his support for these measures.
As I think we have all agreed, the economy and businesses need broad-based support. We also need to look at whether there are businesses with specific needs. With our lockdown support, we have provided specific support to businesses subject to additional lockdown restrictions.
I agree with the member opposite that we need to recognize that there are businesses that are particularly vulnerable to our necessary border restrictions and quarantine requirements. That is a form of health measure, too. I think we need to think about how we identify those businesses, and how we provide them with the particular support they need.
I would like to acknowledge that the seasonality that the member opposite referred to is another very important consideration.
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Chair, my next question relates to the emergency wage subsidy. The initial iteration of the program was complex enough that there were small businesses that struggled with the application process.
The new iteration, this latest iteration that we are debating tonight, is infinitely more complex. How are very small businesses, owner-operator businesses, going to apply for this program when they do not have teams of lawyers and consultants helping them? They are trying to run their businesses. Service Canada offices are still closed in the region I represent.
What is the minister's message to them?
Chrystia Freeland Liberal University—Rosedale, ON
Mr. Chair, that is an excellent question and something I have wrestled with, too. In putting together both the wage subsidy and the rent subsidy programs, we have tried to balance two things. One is to make it as easy as possible for businesses to get access to this support, but the other is to have a smooth curve of support, so that businesses that need the most get the most. If a business has a 70% revenue decline or more, it gets 65% support, but it does not just drop off. We do not want to create a perverse disincentive. In order to have that smooth curve, which we have achieved, there is a little complexity. I am hopeful that when people actually start applying for the—
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Chair, I think, especially with the Service Canada offices still closed in northwest B.C. in some communities, the complexity of the program is of particular concern.
My next question is around the emergency wage subsidy. It has been successful at helping businesses retain their remaining employees who are working for them, but it has not been so successful at allowing them to rehire the ones that they laid off.
Does your government have a plan to increase the number of employees who have been laid off being rehired under these programs and re-employed?
