House of Commons Hansard #41 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was medical.

Topics

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:30 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I have more of a comment. Over the last number of years since 2015, shortly after getting into government, we have had a great deal of debate, whether inside the chamber, in committee, in the Senate or with our constituents, related to just how important this issue is.

There have been many different types of amendments brought forward. Some have been accepted and others, obviously, have been rejected. We have to be careful not to underestimate the valuable contributions that all participants, including the medical and science professionals, who have allowed us to bring the legislation to the point we are at today.

I always indicate that all lives are equal and I will continue to advocate for that. We need to recognize that, at times, we will have to agree to disagree. I wanted to express that I appreciate the comments by the Conservative Party. Having said that, I believe the legislation we have is a step forward in the right direction.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is probably a little easier to address the comments of the member for Winnipeg North than to answer questions, to be honest.

The member is right. This is a very serious situation where we have no recourse. It is not that people can come back three days later when they have found out they did not like dying so much. That is the problem with this. We have to make sure that the rights of people are protected properly, and that is really my concern. I do not have a problem when people wish to have medically assisted dying because that is their right. We should not make that choice for them, but there needs to be proper safeguards for our vulnerable population. That is what I would like to see amended.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague makes the point well that we have different points of view, even within our own party, about some of the fundamental questions involved. To coin a phrase, sometimes diversity is a source of strength. The fact is that we have different points of view, but what we are united as a Conservative caucus on is that there need to be protections for vulnerable people.

The 10-day reflection period can already be waived in certain circumstances. The government says it is too much to have a reflection period of 10 days when people wait so much longer to get access to basic treatment. These are reasonable amendments and it is just so striking that the government does not listen. It does not listen to the physicians, the patients, the disability folks or other parliamentarians who have raised these concerns.

I am curious what the member's response is to how we put forward these reasonable proposals and the government consistently refuses to listen to these concerns.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have to admit it is quite baffling, but Liberals are probably taking the path of least resistance. It is so much easier just to wipe away any conditions, because then conditions do not have to be regulated and terms do not have to be put forward. All one has to say is yes, it is allowed, and be done with it.

The member is right. I have to agree that there should be safeguards put in place. Even when people buy vehicles or appliances, there is always buyer's remorse to some degree and there is a waiting period. Why would we not have some type of waiting period when dealing with someone's life? I fully agree with the member's comments.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, we are the only country with universal health care that does not have universal pharmacare. There are people in this country who cannot afford their medicine. When they cannot take their medicine, their health declines, and when their health declines, they end up on a downward spiral. We end up with people who end up in situations where death becomes foreseeable.

Why do the Conservatives not support a universal pharmacare program to make sure we take care of people while they are alive and they get the things they need to live a good life and be healthy?

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that with most couples, partners of various kinds, one or both of them have a medical plan already in place. The statistic is that around 96% of most Canadians have a health care plan, whether it is a plan at work or a seniors program through the province. Yes, a few people fall through the cracks, so why would we not address the small population that does not have the benefit of a medical plan of some kind instead of a universal plan right across the country, which is going to cost billions instead of a few millions.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to speak this evening, virtually, from my home province of New Brunswick, to what is a very important issue for Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

Four days is how long the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights took to study Bill C-7. I have listened with great interest to my colleagues on all sides of the House as we debate this important issue, and it has become abundantly clear that the amount of time the government allocated for the study of this legislation was woefully inadequate. That became abundantly clear to me as a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, where we heard witness after witness, in testimony after testimony, talk about the negative impacts that this legislation will have on Canadians, particularly Canadians with disabilities.

I go into this debate with an open mind. I know that all 338 members of the House of Commons come from different political parties, different backgrounds and different perspectives, but I would hope that most of us are united in our resolve to protect those who are vulnerable and help those who are less fortunate than some of the rest of us. Some of those people appeared before our committee. We had persons with disabilities and other persons who are vulnerable, and under Bill C-7, they would be, for the first time ever, eligible for assisted death in our country.

Bill C-7 is not a moderate change from the existing law. Five years ago, Bill C-14 was passed into law under a majority Liberal government, and it provided for assisted dying. One of the features in that bill, and there was a number of them, were the safeguards that were put in place. One of those safeguards was that a person's death had to be reasonably foreseeable in order for them to be eligible for assisted dying. In other words, the person had to be dying to be eligible for assisted dying.

There were other safeguards in place too, including a 10-day reflection period. We throw around terms like “life-or-death question” or “life-or-death situation”, but assisted dying truly is life or death, and the 10-day reflection period gave someone an opportunity to change their mind.

As members know, with the Truchon decision in Quebec, the Superior Court decided that a safeguard for the reasonable foreseeability of death was not constitutional. It is my position and the position of the Conservative Party, as well as that of many Canadians, that this decision should have been appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada, for certainty. One of the key things the Attorney General does on behalf of a government, which is one of the key things a government does, is defend government legislation. This is brand new legislation on a brand new idea in Canada. However, the Liberal government, even at the first instance, did not defend its own legislation and its own safeguards, and did not appeal the decision.

We have heard from so many different groups, such as palliative care doctors and persons with disabilities, and they spoke of the need to appeal the decision. We heard at committee how important it would have been to do so. However, rather than appeal the decision, the government brought in Bill C-7, which not only responded to the Quebec court decision but went further in stripping away a number of safeguards that existed in the previous legislation.

At committee, the Conservative Party moved 10 amendments that were based on the feedback we heard from persons with disabilities, palliative care doctors and other specialists. They would have put back in place some of the safeguards that had been stripped away. However, one by one, amendment after amendment, these very modest proposals were defeated by the Liberal government.

I want to mention a few of those proposals.

One was to maintain the 10-day reflection period to give individuals who may change their mind about assisted dying the opportunity to do so.

Another was the requirement that two independent witnesses, neither of whom are paid, be there throughout the process of assisted dying. We sometimes have two witnesses for wills. Surely, to ensure ultimate safeguards we should have two independent witnesses for MAID.

Another was ensuring the physician who is dealing with the individual has an expertise in whatever ailment the patient is facing. That is not a requirement in this legislation.

We heard powerful testimony from Roger Foley. Members may have heard of his case. He recorded conversations he had with individuals within the hospital who were trying to encourage him to consider MAID, assisted death. I think he is someone who has so much to give, even in his state as a person living with a disability. Roger Foley appeared before the justice committee, and he did that not for himself, but to help other Canadians living with disabilities so they would not be faced with the same thing he was faced with: individuals advising him that he is eligible for assisted dying.

I have heard a number of members tonight talk about the equality of Canadians. We heard from different groups representing persons with disabilities, and they see this as an equality issue. They say there is no equality under this law because they are being singled out. They are asking why they are being singled out.

Dr. Catherine Frazee, a person with disabilities and a professor at the school of disability studies at Ryerson University, said:

Bill C-7 begs the question, why us? Why only us? Why only people whose bodies are altered or painful or in decline? Why not everyone who lives outside the margins of a decent life, everyone who resorts to an overdose, a high bridge, or a shotgun carried out into the woods? Why not everyone who decides that their quality of life is in the ditch?

As I mentioned, we heard from Roger Foley, who said:

What is happening to vulnerable persons in Canada is so wrong. Assisted dying is easier to access than safe and appropriate disability supports to live. Committee members, you cannot let this happen to me and others. You have turned your backs on the disabled and elderly Canadians. You or your family and friends will all be in my shoes one day. You cannot let this sliding regime continue.

As Conservatives, we have listened throughout this process. That's why we said the government should have appealed the decision.

As members know, there was a five-year mandatory review under Bill C-14 of the assisted dying regime in Canada. We know that was to start this summer, but the government did not even get the benefit of the mandatory parliamentary review before it brought in sweeping changes that fundamentally alter the assisted dying regime in Canada and alter it against the wishes of persons with disabilities, palliative care doctors and people who are caring for people at the end of their life.

We need to get this right. I would have loved to see an openness from the government to adopt some of our amendments, such as the one Roger Foley asked for, which would have specifically prohibited doctors from bringing up MAID to patients and required that it went the other way around so that the patient would have to bring it up.

For those for whom death is not reasonably foreseeable, who would be eligible for MAID under Bill C-7, we could have extended the reflection period to 120 days. This is based on testimony we heard. It would give time for treatments to take effect and for people to come to terms with their situation.

This is an important bill. It is one that we should have taken more time with. I know the Senate will be looking at it, but I urge all parliamentarians to think of persons living with disabilities who are saying no to the bill.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his excellent work on this file as the shadow minister for justice for our caucus and also as vice-chair of the justice committee.

I am not a regular member of the committee, but I have had the opportunity to listen to some of the incredibly moving testimony, and it is hard for me to understand how someone could sit through and listen to that testimony and still vote against these amendments. We heard from physicians. We heard from people with disabilities. We heard from organizations. There was unanimity among those from the disabled committee who testified before the committee. They said they have a very different experience with the health care system in the context of medical assistance in dying. It is being offered and even pushed on them. We heard from many witnesses who raised that concern.

It is hard for me to understand how members of the government caucus could sit through those hearings, listening to those concerns and to reasonable calls for amendments, and then vote down 100% of the amendments that people with disabilities were saying would address their concerns. However, it explains why the government was so keen to shut down those hearings prematurely.

I would appreciate hearing more from my colleague about his response to that compelling testimony.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. friend for his time spent on the justice committee during the limited time we spent debating the bill and dealing with witnesses.

He is absolutely right. I also thought, in hearing witness after witness, the disability community was unanimous. Groups representing people with disabilities are unanimously against this legislation. Krista Carr, who is the executive vice-president of Inclusion Canada, said that the bill represents the disability community's greatest fear.

I do not understand why our very modest amendments were rejected. They would have protected persons with disabilities from being offered death and helped them deal with their disabilities. I certainly hope that in the future we take greater care with these types of issues related to people with disabilities.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Fundy Royal for supporting the amendments that I brought forward in committee. The justice committee is not in my portfolio, although one of my portfolios is disability.

It is important to hear from those in the diverse ability community. They have a saying: “Nothing about us without us”. They appreciate being heard, so I had some of my own meetings with Inclusion BC and with members of the diverse ability community in B.C.

One thing we know is that poverty is a social determinant of health, and there are too many people living in poverty in this country. We are a wealthy country, so there is no reason why we have people living in poverty.

We put forward the idea of a guaranteed livable income, so I would like to ask the hon. member what kind of programs he would put forward to eliminate poverty in this country. We need to take care of people.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his great work at the committee. I believe one of his amendments, which we supported, would have helped in some way to improve the bill.

The hon. member is right. In assisted dying, it is not a true choice if someone has not had a consultation about their living situation, their social situation and palliative care. The bill would not even require that a person have a real consultation with a palliative care doctor, before MAID is offered, to know what quality of life they can have. We are hearing, even as recently as today, stories about isolation and about COVID being a determining factors in people's decision to end their life prematurely. In Canada, that should not be acceptable.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kenny Chiu Conservative Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-7 seeks to amend medical assistance in dying by eliminating various safeguards on how and when the service is delivered and introducing others. Some of the changes to end-of-life decision-making include the removal of a 10-day waiting period between MAID requests and its administration, proceeding without immediate consent and the creation of a second track that allows individuals who do not meet the reasonably foreseeable death criteria to receive MAID.

I proudly voted against the second reading of Bill C-7 because it does not adequately protect Canadians from harm. The bill creates a pathway to end of life that would disproportionately impact the disabled without sufficiently encouraging the alternatives. It also does not include sufficient consideration for the right of doctors to refuse to provide death as a service. Any legislation that is introduced in Parliament requires a thorough review and that is especially true for bills that are literally matters of life or death. Bill C-7, which seeks to expand medical assistance in dying, is one of these bills.

I have been told that members of the justice committee have heard first-hand from disability advocates vehemently opposed to Bill C-7 and its rapid expansion of MAID, who argue it amounts to a “deadly form of discrimination”, making it easier for persons with disabilities to die than to live. It is shameful that in the Liberal government's rush to pass the bill before Christmas, it continues to neglect to address legitimate concerns being raised by persons with disabilities and medical professionals.

Conservatives are focused on ensuring that this type of legislation includes safeguards for the most vulnerable in our society as well as for the conscience rights of physicians and health professionals. The opposition has introduced a number of reasonable amendments to reinstate balances the government has removed including: first, reinstating the 10-day reflection period when death is reasonably foreseeable; second, maintaining the requirement for two independent witnesses when death is foreseeable; third, ensuring physicians have expertise in the patient's condition; fourth, extending the reflection period when death is not reasonably foreseeable; fifth, protecting vulnerable patients by requiring the patient to be the one who first requests information on medical assistance in dying; and sixth, protecting conscience rights for health care professionals.

It is essential that the government begin a separate and comprehensive parliamentary review of the original MAID legislation passed in 2016 and the state of palliative care in Canada. It is critical that this review analyzes how the government's MAID legislation negatively impacts persons with disabilities. I might add, such a review could have taken place over the summer, but instead the Liberal government shut down Parliament and prorogued it to hide their ethical scandals.

Medical assistance in dying is a very complex issue and evokes strong emotions. Recognizing we need more time to review the bill, my Conservative colleagues and I repeatedly proposed increasing the number of meetings dedicated to reviewing the bill and hearing from witnesses. Each time, the Liberals refused. Canada's Conservatives will continue to highlight the flaws in the government's MAID legislation that threatens the lives, rights and dignity of people with disabilities and work to protect vulnerable Canadians, especially persons with disabilities. Canadians deserve this much.

In the midst of a global pandemic, and at a time when people with disabilities are experiencing significant hardship, the government should be ensuring access to needed support, but it is offering people with disabilities an assisted death. To add insult to injury, Bill C-7 is being rushed through the parliamentary process. Given the implications of the bill, this is unconscionable.

The Government of Canada prides itself on championing inclusion and accessibility. With its current position of the reintroduction of the MAID legislation, the government reminds us that it has a glaring blind spot when it comes to its vision of a more inclusive Canada. This is not simply an unfortunate omission. This is a betrayal of the fundamental principles of inclusion, and one that puts the lives of people with disabilities at risk.

If the government is truly committed to building a more inclusive and accessible Canada, it must continue to restrict MAID to end-of-life circumstances and prevent MAID from being provided on the basis of having a disability. The government has a responsibility to protect the human rights and dignities of all Canadians, especially persons with disabilities.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, a 10-day reflection period, which can already be waived in certain circumstances, is really all that we are asking for with the first amendment. The second amendment calls for a 120-day period for those for whom death is not reasonably foreseeable so that people could actually get treatment before they are pushed forward into this or before they proceed with it.

I just think that these amendments are eminently reasonable. Anybody, regardless of what side of the issue they are on, should be able to accept that a 10-day reflection period before a person dies is quite minimal. It is either that or the government's position right now of same-day death, and being able to request and receive it on the same day. I do not think that a person's worst day should be their last day.

I just cannot understand why the government will not listen to the witnesses, listen to the experts and accept these reasonable amendments. I would like to hear the member's comments on that.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Kenny Chiu Conservative Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is quite unconscionable, as I said, to shorten this reflection period in the guise of providing a more immediate response to shortening a person's pain, understanding that, a lot of times, people under such circumstances could have other alternatives provided or presented to them and, therefore, change the situation altogether. However, once MAID is administered, it would be too late for anybody to reverse the decision, and that is why a reflection period, especially for those who do not have a reasonably foreseeable condition, needs to be reinstated in order to have the chance to reconsider.

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9 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for Steveston for his great speech on this. As I have gotten to know him over the last year or so, he is a valued member here, and I am very happy to call him a colleague.

One of the issues we have seen with the removal of the 10-day waiting period is that there is no real ability to withdraw the request. As we have seen in Canada, it has been reported that over 270 people a year withdraw their request for assisted suicide. I wonder if the member has any thoughts on whether the bill should address that better.

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9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kenny Chiu Conservative Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to represent the good people of Steveston. My riding also includes an area of Richmond East that is populated with a lot of good citizens, so it is important to actually mention the full name of Steveston—Richmond East.

In matters of life and death, as I mentioned in my speech, I think it is prudent for any government to provide as much protection as it can, especially for vulnerable citizens of the population. With a decision like MAID where there is no reversal, it is even more important that people make that decision under careful consideration, consultation and discussion with families and medical professionals, so that they understand its implications.

Therefore, I think that it would not be unreasonable to reintroduce the 10-day period of reflection or even a longer reflection period for those who do not have a reasonably foreseeable condition.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure tonight to speak to Bill C-7 at report stage, an act to amend the Criminal Code on medical assistance in dying.

My journey on this over the last while, as a new member of Parliament and listening to my constituents, has been one where I realized this is a very personal issue and brings out a very strong and emotional response from people on all sides of this issue. The stories are personal and impactful and people have very strong opinions on all matters to do with the bill.

The thing that has landed for me as I have considered this is that there are a few things we need to ensure are dealt with in the legislation. One, as we have heard many of my colleagues talk about, is the protection of the most vulnerable in our society. The second is the protection of the conscience rights of physicians and health professionals. To that effect, a number of amendments were introduced by my party at the committee stage, for great reason.

The first one talked about reinstating the 10-day reflection period when death was reasonably foreseeable. I was in the House last week and had the privilege of listening to some debate on this matter. It was a very moving experience for me as I listened to my colleague, the member for Flamborough—Glanbrook, share a very personal story in a question to a member. It was a very moving and impactful story.

He talked about the finality of the decision his daughter made when she chose to take her own life some years ago. He talked about how it was at a very low point in her life that she chose to take her own life. We talk about the removal of the 10-day reflection period, but when I heard that story, it personally moved me and caused me to say that it is so important that we protect people in their most vulnerable moments.

My colleague talked a few minutes ago about the idea of maintaining the requirement for two independent witnesses when death was foreseeable. As an accountant for many years, dealing with many legal and financial matters, there were so many things I did over my career that required the signatures of multiple witnesses. The matters I thought were important over all of those years were nowhere near the importance of determining life and death matters like we are talking about today. The requirement for two independent witnesses being reduced to one is appalling when I consider the matters I dealt with as a professional over the years, which required the signatures of at least two or multiple people.

The other point we have talked about over the last few weeks is ensuring physicians have expertise in a patient's condition. It is imperative that we maintain the ability for people to prove it and have multiple opinions. The extension of the reflection period when death is not reasonably foreseeable is another amendment the Conservatives believe is vital and important to this process.

Protecting vulnerable patients by requiring them to be the ones to first request information on medical assistance in dying is really important. It overwhelms me to think that a vulnerable member of our society could walk into a doctor's office or a health provider's office, while being at a low point and suffering from whatever ailment, and a health care professional or somebody in a position of trust initiating a conversation about medical assistance in dying. It is unconscionable.

The removal of that provision is not acceptable. For that reason, there is no way I would ever support this with those kinds of things still included in the bill.

As I mentioned earlier, there is the protecting of conscience rights for health care professionals. We need to respect the opinions, beliefs and rights of those people to maintain their values and beliefs and maintain the things they believe are important in their approach to their professional journey. It is imperative we protect those folks. The thing I have heard the most from people, along with the protecting vulnerable people, is protecting the conscience rights of health care professionals.

As we think about the process, any legislation that is introduced in Parliament requires a thorough review. Just like I talked about in the context of having the two independent witnesses, when we are talking about matters that are literally life and death, it is important that we ensure we have due process. There was the review that was supposed to be done.

We have a strong belief that this decision should have been appealed to the Supreme Court so we could get certainty in the framework. So many of these things did not get accomplished, as has been mentioned by a number of my colleagues and members today. This is somewhat as a result of the prorogation of Parliament and the fact that we missed a number of weeks of opportunity to debate legislation and deal with these important matters.

I want to reflect upon the witnesses and the testimony that was presented to the justice committee. We heard from numerous people and groups that advocated on behalf of people with disabilities. People are opposed to the bill and the rapid extension of the legislation that has been put before us compared to the former legislation, Bill C-14. It is shameful that we are rushing this. It is a matter of life and death. We are now rushing this to try to get it done before Christmas. We could have done so much more in the weeks past.

As Conservatives, we will continue to fight on behalf of the vulnerable in our society. We will continue to fight on behalf of all Canadians with disabilities. We will continue to ensure that their interests are protected and that they are protected as we move forward in this process.

I want to comment on the impact of this on indigenous people. As the shadow minister for indigenous services, I am always engaged in the lives of those folks. As I speak to my indigenous and first nations friends, they really struggle with this legislation. There is a spiritual element and spiritual being to a lot of indigenous folks. They struggle with the advancement of the legislation and how rapidly it is moving.

I could go on for a while about some of the inequities experienced by indigenous people. I could talk about some of the witnesses at the committee. They talked about the voices of indigenous people not being heard, even though the percentage of the indigenous population in the Northwest Territories, from Nunavut to some of the other communities is so high. Those voices were not heard and have not been heard.

I have a quote that states, “The Indigenous peoples of Canada, including those living with disabilities, do have a voice, however, the opportunity to speak to Bill C-7 has not been adequately conveyed or provided” to those groups.

I want to end with a letter from one of my constituents and I want to frame this carefully. This is from a gentleman and his wife who served for years as chaplains of the Salvation Army in my community. They have dealt with disadvantaged people for many years. They reached out to me early on in this process.

Their letter states:

“As two of your constituents, we are concerned about Bill C-7 and the changes to Canada's law on medical assistance in dying. Canadians living with disabilities and chronic ailments as well as other vulnerable people already have difficulty getting the support they need to live. Removing the end of life requirement from the MAID law puts these Canadians at even greater risk. We oppose changes to remove the safeguards for MAID law for those whose death is foreseeable, like the 10-day reflection period, the ability to consent at the time of death or the requirement for two independent witnesses. We urge you to fight for these safeguards. It is essential that the government protect vulnerable Canadians from abuse and harm. We urge you to call for a reintroduction of an end of life requirement in the MAID law.”

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

St. Catharines Ontario

Liberal

Chris Bittle LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I believe it comes from a genuine place of wanting to protect Canadians, but the ultimate result is limiting individuals' charter rights. I have heard a number of Conservatives, and the member is not the only one, talk about the conscience rights of doctors, about which we should all be concerned. It is why there was an amendment in the original bill in 2016 about those rights.

This is a question I asked a number of witnesses at the Standing Committee on Justice in 2016, and I will ask the member. This is such a red herring in this debate.

Could he name for me any time in Canadian history or give me an example of one of his constituents, a physician or anyone, who was required to perform a medical procedure against their will and if not, why is the Conservative Party continuing to perpetrate this red herring during this debate to limit people's charter rights?

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9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, I will not go into specific examples, but I have talked to many physicians and health care providers and this is an issue for them. They do not want to be put in a place where they are going to be challenged and going to be before a court because of their beliefs. We have a fundamental right in our country for freedom of religion and a freedom of belief, and it should apply in this case as well.

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December 2nd, 2020 / 9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, the ignorance of the member for St. Catharines of the policy of the College of Physicians and Surgeons in his own province is quite striking.

The Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons has a policy that requires physicians to provide effective referral and in emergency situations, to provide services that are the standard of the care, even if they go against their conscience. That is a fact. It is an existing college policy.

The member claims to be unaware of the predicament his constituents are in. The fact of this is that when we debated medical assistance in dying last time, we spoke about the case of Dr. Nancy Naylor, who was a palliative care physician in Ontario. She said that because of the pre-existing policy, she was being forced to close her practice earlier.

The striking ignorance of the member for St. Catharines on these facts from his own province about the attack on conscience in the country is incredible. I would love to hear my colleague's comments on that.

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9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the examples he has outlined are a perfect example of the situation where that has happened in Ontario. It is imperative that we protect the beliefs and the choices physicians and health care providers want to make in their own journeys and their own professional practices.

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9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is repeating the same red herring. The hon. member from across the way did not say that it happened. He said that a witness said it may happen and they were concerned about it.

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9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Yes I did. It is the policy. It has happened.

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9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

If the hon. member would let me speak, I believe I have the floor.

Again, I will repeat the question because the hon. member refused to answer it. Could he name one single incident where a doctor in the province of Ontario or anywhere in the country has been required to do any medical procedure against his or her will? I have a spoiler alert. He cannot. Why is he repeating this red herring?

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9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Vidal Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, if the member wants to get into a debate, maybe he should actually recognize where my riding is, which is in northern Saskatchewan, not in Ontario. Let us actually talk about practical—