House of Commons Hansard #41 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was medical.

Topics

International TradeAdjournment Proceedings

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Madam Speaker, I am happy to agree with my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith. I note for him that Canada will continue to pursue an inclusive approach to trade with new partners, and that this approach will be informed by engagement with Canadian stakeholders and by conducting various analyses, such as gender-based analyses, environmental analyses and consultation with first nations.

I also note for my colleague that closer bilateral ties with countries, including economic ties, are a very effective way of promoting Canadian values and interests, such as human rights, labour standards and environmental protections.

International TradeAdjournment Proceedings

7:35 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

Pursuant to an order made earlier today the motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been withdrawn and the House will resume consideration of Bill C-7 at report stage under government business.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-7, an act to amend the Criminal Code (medical assistance in dying), as reported (with amendment) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

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7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, to bring folks up to speed as to where I left off, I was talking about the 10-day reflection period that would be removed from the medical assistant in dying legislation and how the current justice minister said that the 10-day waiting period added to the pain and suffering of people.

We know that is false. Modern medicine gives us the tools to alleviate pain and suffering, if only governments had the courage to make them widely available. It simply is not right or fair that people who are suffering may not have access to good palliative care, home care or to the medications they need to reduce their pain, suffering and anxiety. Ensuring all Canadians have access to care needs should be our top priority to address the needs of suffering Canadians. Death cannot and should not ever be the only choice to end excessive suffering.

Suffering Canadians must also be free to exercise a change of heart if they choose. The elimination of the reflection period and the removal of the requirement to reconfirm consent take away this option. It takes away the option to reconfirm consent. It takes away the option to give comfort in making that decision.

How are we preserving the right for people to change their minds when we waive the waiting period? It would seem the bill would make MAID not only final, but unwavering and resolute, because it would remove the waiting period and the need to reconfirm a person's consent.

The First Annual Report on Medical Assistance in Dying in Canada, 2019, published in July of this last year, relates that in 2019, 3.6% of the patients who made written requests for MAID subsequently withdrew those requests. That may seem like an insignificant number, but the number of deaths put in context works out to 263 deaths that were avoided because people changed their mind. Of the 7,336 who applied for medical assistance in dying, 263 people changed their mind, 3.6%.

We shut down economies for death rates of 0.2%. We now have what would be a wrongful death rate of 3.6% that could be averted and we turn a blind eye to it. Every single one of them deserved the freedom to make that choice. What if, on an annual basis, 263 people would reverse that decision based on having that 10-day waiting period? Now that 10-day waiting period is being removed.

Another primary concern I have is with respect to a glaring omission in the bill, which is the issue of conscience rights protections for medical professionals and health care workers as well as the rights of workers in hospices and other institutions not wanting to cause the death of people in their care.

As an editorial in Maclean's explains:

Many doctors are willing to expedite the natural process of dying, given their traditional role to relieve suffering. There is, however, a qualitative and ethical distinction between hastening a death which is already drawing near, and ending a life which is expected to persist.

This is a very valid point.

When one senator asked an expert witness whether it was true that medical professionals were leaving because of the lack of conscience rights, Dr. Herx replied, yes, that she knew of doctors who had taken early retirement for reasons of professional integrity or for their own moral compass.

Let us make no mistake. These are real lives, real people, real consciences being impacted by the decisions the House is making this week. Do we want to harden the hearts of those who, by their world view, cannot comply, those who by responding to MAID feel it is a betrayal of their professional commitment to save lives, a betrayal of their faith or their conscience?

Likewise, other professionals have concerns, for example, pastoral care and workers who attend to people who are suffering on a regular basis. They know they are not dealing with many of the root causes of pain, loneliness, fear, distress and despair.

With the revelation of the horrific conditions for our elderly, as described by the Canadian Armed Forces just recently when providing assistance to some personal care homes during this COVID crisis, the Canadian Council of Catholic Bishops asked how “in good conscience” could the criteria for MAID be expanded when we were not even responding to their basic human care?

The bill, if passed, has some very real life and death concerns. According to the Council of Canadian Academies, without its reasonably foreseeable natural death provision, which is being removed, Canada will become more permissive with respect to MAID than any other jurisdiction in the world.

Two other voices, Lemmens and Krakowitz Broker, explain that unlike any other country in the world, the new bill fails to explicitly require that all reasonable options be available and tried first before allowing physicians to end a patient's life.

Ensuring consent is so vital in avoiding any sense of coercive implication, subtle or otherwise, for the dignity of all lives. People just may change their minds. The Council of Canadian Academies advised that a major reason why people change their minds about MAID is the disability paradox, which is understood as healthy people imagining a future health condition and ending up discovering it has much more quality than anticipated. In other words, people may tend to overestimate the intolerability of a future health scenario.

An alarming suggestion made by the report is that people may have written their request under duress or coercion, fearing that a lack of social and health support created a bias to their future quality of life.

Expert opinions, speaking to the Senate committee on Bill C-7, discussed how, in the proposed bill, MAID would include treatable diseases where death was not imminent, which is where the bill adds a 90-day assessment period. However, it is no wonder that people with disabilities or chronic illnesses are feeling threatened by the legislation. This addition is especially concerning when people are faced with a sudden, dramatic, life-changing illness or disability, as it often takes much longer than three months to gain a renewed perspective of life after a diagnosis like that.

It is no wonder that former member of Parliament Jane Philpott and the current member for Vancouver Granville wrote an editorial for Maclean's, urging parliamentarians to proceed with caution, questioning whether there was enough medical and social evidence to even understand the implications of the potential changes being presented in the bill.

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7:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his words of wisdom. It was wonderful.

In my life, previous to becoming elected, I had the privilege and opportunity to work in an interdisciplinary team in a hospital setting as a social worker. A lot of times I got to go into end-of-life situations, palliative and more. It was a real honour to work with a family in a palliative situation. A lot of family therapy happens in that moment, which is for the good, and a lot of reconciliation.

The statistic right now is that only 30% of Canadians have access to quality palliative care. For sure, it is not people who live in rural and remote northern communities.

Would my hon. colleague agree that it is absolutely appalling that only 30% of Canadians have access to palliative care?

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7:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, my colleague, the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster, happens to share my last name.

It is absolutely horrible that in our country only 30% of people who require palliative care have access to it. In my riding of Provencher, we have many good personal care homes and there is always a need to increase beds. We are seeing some expansion in one of my larger communities right now.

Statistics tell us that when people have access to good, quality care, their demeanour, their perspective on life changes and it could prevent them from making a hasty decision. Now, if they make a hasty decision on MAID, it would be terminal for them, because no reflection period would be required anymore.

Access to medical palliative care is very critical.

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7:45 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Speaker, I put forward some amendments to the bill during the committee process. One of them was calling to ensure that people were not in a state of decline because of deprivation, social disadvantage, lack of support or perceived discrimination. There are things we can do to help people while they are alive. Some of those we have called for are a guaranteed livable income to ensure people have a good quality of life and universal pharmacare to ensure people have access to their medicines. We know that when people do not have access to medicine, their health declines.

The Conservatives do not support these things. They do not support taxing the billionaire class. That is about economic Darwinism, everybody for themselves, letting people be deprived of their medicine, letting people live on the streets and live in poverty.

Why does the member not want to take care of people? That is what I would like to know. Why does the member not support a guaranteed livable income and universal pharmacare, so we can take care of people while they are living?

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7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, that is a great question. We want to take care of people. The previous member asked what I thought about palliative care. The lack of palliative in our country is horrible. If people have access to palliative care in the time when they need it, I think it will reduce a lot of the need for people wanting to access MAID. Palliative care is something on which we should be focused. The government indicated that it would have a plan, but it does not have a plan and it has not even begun one.

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7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, I know this is something my hon. colleague cares about deeply. Has he seen the testimony of Mr. Foley at committee?

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7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, no, I was not at committee when Mr. Foley gave testimony. Therefore, I was not able to see it.

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7:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Madam Speaker, I had the opportunity to speak to this particular legislation before it went to committee for proposed amendments, or the hopeful change of amendments. At that time, I raised some very serious concerns that I had about the changes proposed, through the legislation, to the parameters around medical assistance in dying. I shared my concerns that with the removal of existing safeguards, this legislation was eroding protections for vulnerable persons.

Countless medical professionals and advocates for persons with disabilities have come forward to express their great concern with this legislation, but it seems that the government is more concerned with rushing to pass this legislation than with listening to the serious and valid concerns they have. These doctors have lived experience with vulnerable populations, and a deep understanding of not only the demand for medical assistance in dying, but also of broader medical needs. It is reprehensible that their voices are being ignored. We have to ensure that personal autonomy does not supersede the protection of vulnerable persons. When the consequences of getting this wrong are life-ending, we really cannot afford to get this wrong.

We know that Conservatives put forward a number of reasonable amendments to reinstate protections that the Liberal government would remove through this legislation. These amendments were sought in good faith to better protect vulnerable persons, such as reinstating the 10-day reflection period when death was reasonably foreseeable, maintaining the requirement for two independent witnesses or even requiring that patients be the ones to first request information on medical assistance in dying. I am beyond disappointed that these proposed amendments were rejected.

We have heard the testimonies and read the stories that persons with disabilities and elderly Canadians are being offered medical assistance in dying without requesting the service. In those moments, the underlying message being communicated to them is that their lives are “less than”, and that is just not okay. It is not okay for us to create the legislative framework that perpetuates ageism and ableism. Every life has value and every life is worthy of protection.

If members opposite do not believe Conservatives, disability advocates or medical professionals that this is happening, maybe they will listen to the words of their colleague, the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion. In speaking to Senate members about the personal experience of Roger Foley, a person with a disability who was offered, unsolicited, medically assisted death, the minister said:

I absolutely acknowledge and am quite preoccupied by the power imbalance between practitioners and patients, particularly patients who have been in systems that have discriminated against them and ignored their voices their entire lives. I have grave concerns with the particular circumstances of the individual that you spoke of. Quite frankly, I can tell you, he is not alone. I regularly hear from families who are appalled by the fact that they take their child, potentially their older child, in and are offered unprovoked MAID. I think that has to stop. That’s a matter of practice, I would suggest, and we need to get at that through our regulations, through working with our medical associations.

I agree with the minister. This has to stop. Every life is valuable, disability or not.

The rejected Conservative amendment to require patients to be the ones to first request information on medical assistance in dying could help that, but the legislative changes proposed in this bill, to make same-day medically assisted death available and to remove the requirement for the second witness, certainly would not make it stop. A person with a disability who may already feel disempowered would not be empowered by these proposed changes.

In the previous Parliament, I sat on the HUMA committee during the study of the accessibility act, Bill C-81. The guiding principle of that particular piece of legislation was to ensure the full and equal participation in society for persons with disabilities. I have to wonder how we can ensure their full participation in society while eroding these protections in the medical assistance in dying framework.

Why are we not listening to the disability advocates who are sounding the alarm? These advocates are telling us that the removal of existing safeguards in medical assistance in death has the potential to devalue the lives of vulnerable persons.

The other significant piece of this conversation is that we cannot truly assert that we are giving Canadians personal autonomy if there is no real choice. If palliative care and medical care needs are not available to a person, but medically assisted death is readily available, there is a problem.

The legislation passed in the previous Parliament required that an in-depth, five-year parliamentary review of the original medical assistance in dying legislation occur, and that the review also consider the state of palliative care in Canada. This government is recklessly pushing through this legislation before that work is done.

The reality is that we already know there is inadequate access to palliative care in Canada. There have been countless studies, and we hear it from medical professionals. We hear it from those who are seeking palliative care and from their advocates. Certainly, this legislation would be better informed if that in-depth parliamentary review had already occurred, and that would be the appropriate order of consideration.

As we navigate COVID-19, we certainly cannot ignore how the quality of care and physical restrictions might impact vulnerable persons. The story of Nancy Russell, who sought medically assisted death rather than face another lockdown in her care home, is heartbreaking. We can certainly imagine that Nancy was not alone in those feelings of loneliness and hopelessness.

First, this story emphasized to me the need for better supports in our care homes. COVID-19 has exposed the acute challenges in long-term care in Canada. These challenges have only been compounded by the pandemic. This government has a responsibility to ensure that there is adequate access to masks and rapid testing, so that our seniors are not forced into endless isolation to the point that ending their lives feels preferable.

Second, this story reinforced my strong belief that we have to be cautious that we are not promoting MAID to those who are experiencing moments of hopelessness. We have to ensure that we are delivering better and adequate supports and services to all Canadians. We need to ensure that there is adequate access to palliative care and home care needs. We have to make efforts to ensure dignity in living, not only dignity in dying. Without ensuring this, we are in fact eroding personal autonomy, and then choice is skewed. In effect, without true personal autonomy in the decision, there is no dignity in dying either.

I implore my colleagues in the House to pay attention to the alarms that have been sounded by so many Canadians, including countless medical health professionals and disability advocates. I ask them to seriously consider the impact of removing vital safeguards for medical assistance in dying, to consider making efforts to address systemic ageism and ableism and not reinforce it, and to not endanger the lives of vulnerable persons by allowing respect for individual autonomy to outweigh the protection of vulnerable persons.

In my view, the proposed legislation does not find that balance. We must do better to protect vulnerable persons, in fact, on all issues, but even more so on issues of life or death.

We owe it to Canadians to properly consult, review and consider legislation. They deserve that from us.

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8 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I have, on many occasions, talked about the importance and significance of all lives being equal. In the many ways that this legislation has come before us, more than just the governing party is supporting it. New Democrats, Bloc members and Green members are supporting the legislation.

In the debate, one of the issues that keeps coming up is personal care at home, and the need to see it enhanced and supported. It is interesting to hear Conservative members say that. They seem to advocate giving cash toward health transfers as opposed to trying to ensure there are standards for home care services. I wonder if the member can help me reconcile why the Conservatives seem to be at odds with that.

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8 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I find that question quite funny because I believe all lives are valuable. I have been in situations where a patient has come into the hospital and had nobody. They die and the social worker plans their funeral. They have nobody. They have no friends. They have no family. They have no advocates.

What I am concerned about with this legislation is that we have vulnerable people, whether they are homeless, drug addicts, alcoholics or anything else. If they go into a hospital or a long-term care facility, and it is suggested that they can end their lives right then, if they are told that MAID can be administered with no safeguards and it can be done right then, I have a problem with that. It does not go with what the member across the aisle said about all lives being equal, because that is not true. All lives are valuable.

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8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is good to be up to ask a question on this bill again. I spoke during the previous stage of debate on this bill about how, because we are dealing with life-and-death situations, we need to take into consideration all aspects of this bill and all sides of the debate.

I talked about my mother's situation, where her dementia had progressed to the point where she could not use a telephone anymore to phone family members. The day after Christmas, the last Christmas before she passed away, she developed the flu. The next day, when she had recovered from that flu, we were invited to go to see her at the care home and she talked to us like the dementia had reverted to two years prior. She picked up the phone and phoned my five siblings that day, from the numbers that were in her head.

I have to question why the 10-day reflection period has been removed from this, because at that time I had a representation agreement to make medical decisions for my mother. Medical assistance in dying was not an option at that time, so we did not even think about it.

However, I put this situation to others who might be placed in that situation now. Her dementia turned around, basically overnight. Are there cures out there that we may find next week or next year that would reverse some of these situations? I would like to ask the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster how she sees that the protection needs to be in this legislation.

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8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for being vulnerable. It is sometimes very hard to share those stories that can trigger our emotions, so I thank him for that.

If palliative care is only available to 30% of Canadians, a number that I would argue is even lower in rural, remote and northern communities, that is a problem. When palliative care is happening, sometimes it can take months. My mother was in palliative care for not just a day, but for a few months. However, during that time, even though it is such a very hard time, there is reconciliation. There is the opportunity for broken families and people who have had disagreements and hurt and anger and broken hearts to heal.

I believe that if we do not offer palliative care to people, we are actually robbing families of reconciliation and being whole. Therefore, I really want to encourage the government. There is an importance in palliative care, and we will have better families if we are able to offer this particular service.

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8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, in the evenings there are fewer people around here, so it is always a challenge to keep an audience, but I appreciate that you are in the chair for sure. I know that you always listen to my speeches with rapt attention.

I know that the member for Winnipeg North, without a doubt, is here listening with rapt attention as well. We are sometimes concerned that he never leaves that chair or that he sleeps there. He is usually in that chair before I appear here, and he is usually here after I leave. There are rumours that he may actually live here. I do not mean any disrespect, as I appreciate his interventions. I can recognize his voice from a mile away.

Today we are at report stage for Bill C-7. The report stage is reporting to the House on what was discussed at committee. The committee heard some very compelling testimony from witnesses. Most impactful to me was the testimony from a Mr. Foley.

Mr. Foley gave testimony via Zoom to the committee and he was in a hospital bed. He has a degenerative disease that has made him immobile, and he needs full-time care. It was suggested to him several times that perhaps he should pursue MAID. The bed he is in is a very expensive spot to be taking up, and they are not able to move him out of the hospital into a long-term care bed, so it has been suggested to him that MAID is a viable treatment option for him.

It was shocking to listen to him from his hospital bed tell us that. If colleagues have not had a chance to see his testimony, I recommend they have a look at it. The fact that this is being brought up by medical professionals as if it is another treatment is very concerning to me. Assisted suicide is not a treatment. Assisted suicide is eliminating the patient, not the symptoms and not the pain. It is eliminating the patient.

That was very much the concern that everybody had when assisted suicide was introduced back in 2016-17. I remember that was one of the first pieces of legislation I had to deal with my career here. It was a traumatic bill at that time because I really felt that this was a complete shift away from one of the traditions of western civilization, the Hippocratic oath, which is nearly 2,000 years old. I also feel that it is the government's job to defend life.

At that time I said that this is a slippery slope. Who gets to decide who gets to live and who gets to die? I was assured that that was, indeed, not the case, and that this was where they were going to hold the line. I remember specifically the former justice minister and the former health minister assuring us that they had gotten the balance right. I take them at their word. I do believe they firmly believe they had gotten the balance right.

I do not impugn any of their motives, but both of those individuals are no longer in those positions, and here we are, four short years later, with a gentleman in his hospital bed saying that he is being offered assisted suicide, euthanasia, as if it were just another treatment option. We have treatment option A, treatment option B, and assisted suicide or euthanasia, as if someone should pick one. One is relatively inexpensive and it will free up the bed. The other options will take us a little longer.

Mr. Foley said that he does not want to die. He does not. He still enjoys life even though he is incapacitated to a large extent, so the testimony of Mr. Foley was very telling for me.

The Senate has begun its study and has heard from disability advocates, over 85 witnesses to this point, and none of them has been supportive of the bill. The disability community is very concerned, as the testimony of Mr. Foley really points out. They are very concerned about the pressure that is placed on folks with a disability to pursue MAID, euthanasia or assisted suicide.

One of the most interesting witnesses at committee was the minister for folks with disabilities. At committee, when concerns were raised, she agreed that those were concerns she shared, and that they were also the concerns she had heard from stakeholder groups, which she is closely tied to because this is her portfolio. The voice of the minister responsible for folks with disabilities in Canada had not been heard at the cabinet table or when the bill was drafted.

What is most frustrating about this is that we have seen opportunities for the Liberal government to listen to Canadians on this in several instances. The bill was introduced at the beginning of the Parliament. Then there was the WE scandal, so to get out of that, the government brought in prorogation and the bill was reintroduced after prorogation. The government had heard many of the concerns about the bill prior to prorogation, so it had the opportunity to fix some of the issues it had heard prior to prorogation. It could have reintroduced the bill with some of those fixes, but it never did. It chose not to do that.

Then at committee, I think there were 16 amendments, but the government ignored the amendments that the disability community was seeking. Liberals ignored the amendment to prevent same-day death. Many in the disabilities community said our worst day should not be our last day.

When people are at their worst and say they do not want to do this anymore, that should not be their last day. They should be able to reconsider. This is literally life or death. There is no coming back from this. Many of them brought in amendments to say a 10-day waiting period is acceptable and even a seven-day waiting period would be acceptable.

I heard from a fellow living with a disability who said it takes him longer to get a wheelchair than it would to get assisted suicide. That is one of the major concerns we have. If other treatments are not readily available, then we will see folks being pushed into making a choice that is not really a choice, which is to choose between assisted suicide or going on without treatment for days and days. There were a number of amendments to eliminate the same-day death.

There was also an amendment that was probably the best one in terms of dealing with Mr. Foley's concerns that this is not treatment. It is not a treatment option, and it should be something that is always brought up by the individual. I moved several amendments at committee to Bill C-14 in the previous Parliament around this not being health care. I thought it should definitely be taken out of health care system because I did not want to see euthanasia and assisted suicide being treated as a treatment option.

There was a great amendment to Bill C-7 brought to committee that would have ensured that health care professionals would never be allowed to be the one to instigate the conversation on MAID or assisted suicide. The Liberals also ignored that amendment. The disabilities community is very concerned about the bill. The Liberals have refused to listen to them, and I hope to see the bill get amendments from the Senate.

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December 2nd, 2020 / 8:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, for many years, since 2015, we have had a great deal of debate, literally hundreds of hours of debates, committee meetings and all forms of presentations and so forth. This is true even most recently, with regard to the amendments the member opposite made reference to.

The Bloc, the NDP and the Green Party are all saying that this would appear to be the best going forward, so it would appear that a solid majority support the legislation. I am wondering if my friend could provide his thoughts on what appears to be a consensus for the legislation to move forward.

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8:15 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, I do not know who said it, but I remember a quote from somewhere that says, “I'd rather be right than be president.” To some degree, that is kind of the case here as well. I am not that concerned about how many political parties the member can line up and say agree with the Liberals.

The truth and what is right do not necessarily depend on what the majority is. We should come to this place, debate these issues and hear out the testimony of these individuals. We do have a vote in this place, but it does not necessarily make it the best decision. We have heard 85 witnesses at committee, and all of them in the Senate have been opposed to this bill.

Just because one side of the political spectrum happens to not agree with those witnesses does not mean their testimony is invalid. The Liberals should bring this bill back to—

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8:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Bruce Stanton

We will go to the next question.

Continuing with questions and comments, the hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith.

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8:20 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have been working with the Diversability community here in Nanaimo—Ladysmith for a number of years. I did consultations with its members about this legislation as well, and what I hear often is that they live with a form of legislated poverty. They are deprived of a lot of things other Canadians enjoy.

To have a fair country, what we need to be doing is taxing some of these billionaires who have reaped huge benefits during the pandemic, the 20 billionaires and their $28 billion in additional profits, to even out the playing field and take care of those who are most vulnerable in our communities.

I am wondering whether the hon. member would stand with me and ask that we tax the billionaires and spread out some of that wealth so people can live with dignity in this country.

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8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, at committee, the member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith moved an amendment I was very excited we could support. I believe he worked with Inclusion Canada, and he might correct me, and they had brought forward that amendment. I do hope we can continue to work together to get an amendment like that passed in this bill.

When the Liberals say everybody is supportive of this bill, it is not necessarily true in this place. Other political parties, such as the Greens, put forward amendments that were very easy for us to support. They should have been very easy for the Liberals to support as they have wide support across the Canadian population.

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8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague from Peace River—Westlock spoke about the options being provided by health care workers. I relate that to the story of a friend at home who had minor surgery, and because she was in such pain, the doctor basically opened up the cupboard and asked her what she would like. This ties into the opioid crisis. Sometimes the individual practitioner may not be looking at all the options out there. They may be looking at only the easiest options, and I hope that does not become the case here.

When we debated this bill in the earlier stages, it was to go to committee for possible amendments, and those amendments would determine what would happen when it came back here. I heard from constituents right across the North Okanagan—Shuswap on both sides of this debate, and I tried to put some of those issues forward in my earlier speech.

I would like to ask the hon. member for Peace River—Westlock if he feels the debate on both sides of this bill have been considered in the amendments that were either—

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8:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Bruce Stanton

We are out of time. We will have a short response, please, from the hon. member for Peace River—Westlock.

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8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, I remember the member's first speech on the bill, an impassioned speech he gave about his mother who suffered from Alzheimer's. A small miracle happened, in that he got his mother back for a few hours or days, I don't quite remember, but it was a miracle nonetheless. Those are the things that I hope that most Canadians get to experience.

In this debate around Bill C-7, there is unanimity in the disability community that there are not two sides to the debate. There is unanimity in the disability community that this is a bad bill. We should send it back and get it fixed.

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8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Soroka Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the chance to speak about this bill at report stage. I want to take this time to share my personal experience about losing my parents and express my concerns with the bill as it currently stands.

My father passed away of a heart attack 19 years ago. This was incredibly difficult to deal with. He was there one minute, had a massive heart attack and was gone the next. While this was truly devastating, and one of the most difficult points in my life, fortunately there was no difficult decision to make, and his death was not prolonged or painful.

Six years later, my mother passed away. This was not so simple and, unfortunately, long and drawn out. My mother was diagnosed with stage four non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and 14 years ago, at the time she was diagnosed, treatment options were not as advanced as they are today. My mother's stage-four cancer diagnosis looked grim. She tried radiation and chemotherapy. Both were ineffective, as the cancer was too far gone.

We were told by doctors that stem cell treatment would be her best course of action, as the treatment proved to be 70% effective for those who completed the treatment. In my mother's case, drugs were extremely effective on her body, and after two treatments the drugs caused her to have stroke-like symptoms. Because of the effects of the drugs on her body, she was immediately withdrawn from the stem cell treatment.

After withdrawing from the treatment, my mother's condition continued to decline. Over the next few months, she would receive a blood transfusion every three weeks that gave her a bit more energy and temporarily made her feel a bit better, but we all knew this was only a band-aid solution. There came a point when my mother did not want to continue to prolong her inevitable passing. She took time to reflect and decided to stop accepting transfusions altogether.

Quickly we saw how sick she truly was, not having received her transfusions. Not long after, my mother had passed. While 13 years ago, medically assisted dying was non-existent in Canada, even if it had been, my mother would not have chosen this option, even though she said she was sick of being sick and that was the reason she stopped accepting transfusions, as she was preparing to accept the inevitable. Although she was dying, she never experienced any pain, so she had a relatively comfortable passing. Given my personal experience with losing my parents, I sympathize with people who are in this position or have loved ones in this position.

The legislation we are discussing today is problematic. Choosing medical assistance in dying is a choice that should not be thought out over weeks, months or even years, in some cases. No one should be able to make a rash decision and seek out medical assistance in dying without a wait period. Conservatives are suggesting simple amendments to the legislation to fix the many problems it has and the ethical dilemmas that may arise out of it.

Because of my personal experience, I absolutely believe Canadians who are facing situations where their death is foreseeable should have access to medical assistance in dying. However, with legislation that allows that, there must be safeguards for vulnerable sectors of the population, as well as our health care professionals, both of which Bill C-7 fails to adequately address. Since the bill was first introduced, I have heard from my constituents both for and against the legislation. Interestingly enough, of all the constituents I have heard from on this issue, no one has said to me they want the bill to be passed in its current state. Those who are for the legislation want to see it passed, but not without amendments.

I agree with them and I cannot support the bill in its current form, so let me share with the House the main points I am hearing from constituents who would like the legislation amended.

First is protecting conscience rights of health care professionals. If a doctor fundamentally disagrees with providing assisted dying, it should be acceptable for them to decline the procedure without providing a referral. If a doctor sees medically assisted dying as ethically improper, as doctors take the oath to “do no harm”, when providing a referral to a doctor who will do the procedure, the initial doctor still plays a role in the practice and we must protect their conscience rights.

Second is requiring the patient to be the one to request the information on medically assisted dying. Should someone else request information on medically assisted dying on a patient's behalf, they could feel unwanted pressure, especially if the patient has a mental disability. By not having a safeguard in the legislation, vulnerable sectors of the population are being put at risk.

Third is providing a clearer definition of foreseeable death. In its current form, the legislation fails to clearly define a foreseeable death. Could old age be seen as a foreseeable cause of death? Is that an acceptable reason for a request for medical assistance in dying? What about a disease that will likely take 10 years before someone passes?

Finally, and most importantly, is reinstating the 10-day reflection period. A person who lives to the age of 75, the average age of people who use medical assistance in dying, will have lived about 27,500 days. A 10-day reflection period to ensure they are ready to go is not just recommended, but it is essential.

I would like to bring up another personal point. When my grandfather reached 80 years of age, he stated many times what a good, healthy life he had and that at this time he was more than ready to accept his passing. It took another 16 years before my grandfather passed away. In that time, when he was 91, his hip broke and because of his advanced age we thought for sure that this would be the end. It was not. He was 96 when his other hip broke and that led to his passing.

Even though he had a very long and relatively healthy life, in his final years, his body was slowly deteriorating. He had macular degeneration and was legally blind. In his advanced years, he was essentially deaf. Even though he was physically able to manoeuvre on his own abilities, he said many times that being blind and deaf makes for a very long day. In this situation, would this be grounds for him to choose medically assisted dying simply because of his old age?

In reading this bill, several questions come to mind that I believe the government has not addressed in the legislation.

Can one consent in advance to be euthanized once one reaches a state one fears but which one has never experienced, like living with advanced dementia?

Once a person has signed an advance request and has lost capacity to consent to medical treatment, at what point would that person be euthanized?

Even if a person has signed an advance request and lost capacity, should a physician, before euthanizing the patient, try to determine whether the patient is currently suffering intolerably and desires to die? In its current form, Bill C-7 has no such requirement.

If a non-capable person seems to resist a lethal injection, can the physician, nevertheless, proceed with the injection if the physician believes that the resistance is not due to any understanding on the patient's part that the injection will kill them? In its current form, Bill C-7 says that apparent resistance means a doctor must not proceed, but clarifies that involuntary response to contact is not resistance.

That raises another question. How does a doctor determine if the response to contact is involuntary?

With all this being said, in its current form, I cannot support the legislation. I certainly hope, for the sake of all Canadians who may wish to consider medical assistance in dying, the government accepts the Conservative Party's amendments to the legislation. I look forward to questions.