House of Commons Hansard #44 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pandemic.

Topics

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to get a second opportunity to ask my friend a question.

It does not surprise me that the Conservatives wish to cut foreign aid spending by up to 25% and reduce Canada's role in the world. We have seen the Conservatives wishing to eliminate our leadership in things like the environment and climate change, and this type of cut would be devastating overall. I wonder if the hon. member could discuss what types of impacts such a vast cut on Global Affairs could have on Canada's place in the world.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is right. It was very unfortunate when we saw, in the last election, the Conservative Party of Canada pledge to cut the foreign aid budget by 25%. Here, we are fighting every single day to get more support for international development and international aid. Because of this COVID pandemic, we are simply going to reverse all the gains that we made if we do not invest.

We have played a leadership role this year with $1.1 billion in support that we have been able to give in our global COVID response. It does not surprise me, from the party that does not believe in science and does not believe in vaccines. When we see, from the official opposition, support for a petition questioning the science of vaccines and silence from the Leader of the Opposition, it is quite unfortunate.

As someone who worked as a nurse who has seen patients die in long-term care facilities this year, I can tell members why it is so important to continue to follow public health guidance, to continue to wear a mask and, when vaccines are available, not spread this misinformation that we see from the opposition.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles.

Forty-four million dollars is what the Liberals wasted in a failed deal with China's CanSino, $44 million that could have gone a long way to help struggling Canadians. It could have stayed in their pockets in the first place or it could have gone to crucial priorities like clean drinking water or mental health and recovery resources, support for victims or front-line law enforcement to fight crime and gangs. What is galling is that all of those tax dollars are all for naught and Canadians now know the Liberals do not take the warnings of Canada's own security and intelligence officials seriously.

Is it surprising? Unfortunately, it is not, because it is already clear that the government fundamentally does not take hostile foreign influence and interference in Canada seriously either. The Liberals have potentially politically exposed persons sitting in their own caucus and have refused to answer questions about it. Meanwhile, the Liberals refuse to add the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps to the list of terrorist entities even though Parliament voted overwhelmingly to do so two years ago.

Security and intelligence officials of course have been raising red flags about Huawei. All of Canada's allies in the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing group have already banned Huawei. The Liberals promised a decision last year, but continue to dither, even while allies warn a failure to ban Huawei will harm Canada's security and intelligence-sharing relationship with the U.S., the U.K., Australia and New Zealand.

The Liberals also will not tell Canadians what they are doing to combat foreign interference in Canada from Chinese government agencies in the so-called Operation Fox Hunt. Chinese Canadians are being targeted and threatened by China's Communist regime and the government cannot even say what its plan is or its actions are to fight back and protect Canadians.

On November 18, this House voted for the Conservative motion that orders the government to table its decision on Huawei and for a new plan to combat escalating foreign interference in Canada from China, but it is alarmingly clear that if Liberals listened to and acted on the cautions, insight and recommendations of Canada's own security and intelligence officials and other experts, this could have been anticipated and avoided. Last week it was reported that executives at CanSino worked in a Chinese government program that has been targeted by CSIS and our other intelligence allies.

The reality is that the Government of China's thousand talents plan has been recruiting researchers and scientists to infiltrate western research organizations for the deliberate purpose of bringing sensitive intellectual property back to China. Last year, a U.S. Senate subcommittee on homeland security looked into the thousand talents plan and identified it as a threat to national security. The U.S. Senate committee found that some thousand talents plan members stole intellectual property, engaged in fraud and violated research values and ethics. They even sold proprietary information on U.S. military jet engines.

In August, CSIS warned Canadian institutions and research groups about the thousand talents plan and that China was using the program to obtain new information and technology for its own economic and military advantage. The fact is that as far back as May, CSIS was warning that Canadian institutions are at a heightened risk of intellectual property theft from China and Russia specifically and explicitly with regard to COVID-19 research.

The Globe and Mail stated the CSIS spokesperson warned, “These corrosive tactics, which are done to advance the economic and strategic objectives of hostile states, come at the expense of Canada’s national interest, including lost jobs, revenue for public services and a diminished competitive global advantage.” Therefore, even after these serious warnings from Canada's intelligence agencies, after exposure of the U.S. experience and warning, why on earth would the Liberal government proceed to sign a deal with CanSino to partner with Canada's National Research Council on vaccine development? Why did the government take $45 million in taxes and just give it to China while putting Canadian intellectual property at risk? There just is not a good answer.

In fact, former CSIS officials said that the Canadian government should have seen the red flags. Another former CSIS official said what is becoming glaringly and alarmingly obvious is that the government does not have a coordinated plan to counteract risks in partnering with China. Global News highlighted that officials cautioned, “The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing, and [the National Research Council] has been abused by China before in this way, and that is why this case is so offensive.... In this case it looks like what China did, is they got what they needed (from Canada) and they stopped the vaccine shipment.”

This makes the government's actions unconscionable. Even worse, once delays in the programs were identified this summer, the Prime Minister continued to publicly defend the deal. How naive is the Prime Minister and the Liberal government?

Let us just examine the facts. The intelligence community constantly warns against intellectual property theft from the Government of China. The Liberal government signs a deal with China-based CanSino, which has executives who have been linked to the Chinese Communist government's thousand talents plan, which is the very program that engages in intellectual property theft. Canadian researchers work with those same Chinese researchers on vaccine development. China delays sending shipment to Canada. The Prime Minister doubles down on his support for the deal in Canada. Intelligence officials again warn about hostile foreign interference related to intellectual property theft. China refuses to send the vaccine to Canada—shocker—and the deal is scrapped, wasting $44 million of taxpayers' money and an unknown amount of Canadian intellectual property.

It is truly unreal. It actually seems like it could hardly even be true, but it is true. Despite all the warnings from officials across the board, the government still went full steam ahead. It is frankly incredibly frustrating to watch, and even more frustrating that the government will not give Canadians straight answers to basic questions about the deal, or basic answers and information that could be shared about what the government is actually doing to combat foreign interference and protect Canadians' national and personal security.

Conservatives have asked multiple times if the government was briefed by security officials before signing this deal. The only response is talking points about listening to security officials, so that must mean the government was briefed. It was briefed and then chose to ignore the evidence and advice. If senior decision-makers were not briefed, that is a major problem. Either way, the deception about it is, too.

Another former CSIS official says that China was also trying to gain leverage over Canada in the Meng Wanzhou extradition case. The official said, “blocking the vaccine shipment also sends the (geopolitical) message...if you really want to work with us, you need to toe the line'".

The government is racking up unsustainable record deficits right now. That said, I do believe many Canadians, small businesses and communities needed efficient, effective and expeditious support during these months. I bet what most Canadians will not understand is that their federal government took $44 million, basically gave it over to China and received absolutely nothing in return.

The Chinese government set a trap, and despite all the warning signs, all the intelligence reports and all the proof throughout the recent history of China's escalation against Canada, such as detaining Canadians in China, violating their rights there and at home, threatening Canadians about Hong Kong there and at home and escalating against our free and democratic allies and against vulnerable developing countries and around the world, the Liberal government walked right into it.

The government had other options, but for whatever reason, the Liberals signed off on this $44-million deal and now that is money Canadian taxpayers will never get back. Conservatives are opposed to this spending measure in the estimates, and for the sake of future Canadian taxpayer dollars, Canadian intellectual property and the safety and security of all Canadians, I really do sincerely hope it is the last time these Liberals make the same mistake. After seeing how they acted over the last number of months, I just cannot say I am optimistic.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I find it difficult at times to appreciate what members in the Conservative Party are saying because they tend to mislead in different ways, whether it is this member or other members of the Conservatives. An example is when they were saying, about the agreement she is referencing, that the government started to have negotiations with other companies after that agreement went south. We know that is factually incorrect.

The reality is the Conservatives seem to have two faces when it comes to China. When Stephen Harper was the prime minister, he went to China and got a wonderful trade agreement. When he came back to Canada, he said that China received him so well that it was going to give him two pandas to bring to Canada.

Could the member reflect on why there is inconsistency in the treatment toward China today versus when Stephen Harper was prime minister?

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to reflect on how disheartening and really brutal it is to see a senior member of the Liberal cabinet refuse to actually answer any of the serious issues raised in my remarks tonight and what is being publicly reported, which are security, safety, cybersecurity and intellectual property threats to Canada and to Canadians.

It is escalating by China around this issue, around the world and with other countries, and that senior member gets up and says this. I will remind him of the facts again. The intelligence community has constantly warned against intellectual property theft from the Government of China. The Liberal government signed the deal with China-based CanSino and those executives have been linked to the Chinese Communist government's precise plan specifically to engage in intellectual property theft for its own military and economic advantage.

That member should ask Canadians about that and answer—

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Lakeland for her remarks this evening.

In the House today I have heard my Liberal colleagues talk about the Conservatives as if Conservatives do not support small business, and as if we did not support any of the programs. I would say that we were there to support Canadians. What we are concerned about in these estimates is all that other money that has been put in the budget and all those other plans that we have not heard about. It is not me saying this: it is our independent institutions. It is our Auditor General, who does not have enough money to do her job. It is the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who says he cannot make sense of how the government is spending money.

I would like to ask the hon. member for Lakeland what she thinks about how the Liberals are approaching this important debate today, and what she believes we can do as a party to make progress on the China file.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his comprehensive outline of why it is very difficult for Canadians to trust anything that the Liberals say. Frankly, I think during these complicated months, the lack of trust, the lack of confidence and the lack of clarity coming from the Liberals is damaging, and it is extremely concerning.

I am very concerned that the Liberals have blown through their commitments on spending. The issue that I raised today, the $44 million given to China for virtually nothing in return, is an example of the massive amount of Canadian taxpayers' dollars that could have been put to better use to support Canadians now or put back in their own pockets.

Here is what we have called on the Liberals to do: answer the questions about how many people have been charged and arrested in Operation Fox Hunt, where Chinese Canadians are being threatened and harmed; tell Canadians exactly what their new plan is, because they must have a new and co-ordinated plan to combat the escalating foreign interference from China in Canada; ban Huawei; pull the money from the Asian Infrastructure Bank; get serious about protecting Canadians against the real foreign interference from China, as well as from other autocratic regimes; and take the advice and recommendations that are resounding from intelligence officials and security advisers.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak to some of the votes in the main estimates that we oppose. I will be speaking to the votes relating to foreign affairs, including $44 million for a transaction with a Chinese company.

First, however, I would like to talk about this government's relationship with China. Everyone knows that this Prime Minister has expressed his admiration for the Chinese communist system. In 2013 he even said, and I quote, “There is a level of admiration I actually have for China. Their basic dictatorship is actually allowing them to turn their economy around on a dime.” It was already clear, then, where our Prime Minister was headed and what he envisioned for Canada's relationship with China.

In committee today, we once again heard the rhetoric that Stephen Harper tried to build a relationship with China in 2008 and 2009. That is true, but it was a different time. That was nearly 12 years ago. Canada had a business relationship with China at the time, but there were some concerns. Also, China was different, so much so that, in his opening remarks before the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations, the Minister of Foreign Affairs made it clear that the China of 2020 is not the China of 2015, when this government came to power. He even clearly said that we needed to pay attention. Even the minister was sending the message in his speech before the committee that we have to be careful when it comes to China.

I will come back to the matter before us, the votes or expenditures that this government is asking us to approve. I will talk about one transaction between this government and CanSino Biologics, a Chinese company. The amount of $44 million was put on the line as part of an agreement with that company for the development of vaccines, even though the government knew that the company had direct ties to the Chinese communist regime. As the Minister of Foreign Affairs stated, the China of 2020 is not the China of years past. Once again the government decided to take $44 million of Canadian taxpayers' money for an agreement with a company that has direct ties to the Communist Party of China.

Last week, the media also revealed that the company's founding members had direct ties to the Communist Party of China and that Canadian researchers had been recruited by the Communist Party as part of the thousand talents program. This program was established to send information directly to the Chinese government. The Prime Minister knew how it worked and still went ahead with an agreement with CanSino Biologics using taxpayers' money, our money.

In the end, the Chinese government stole our intellectual property. Under this agreement, Canada had to transfer the intellectual property to CanSino Biologics, which then cancelled the agreement and kept the information. Once again, this is proof that we cannot trust the Chinese government. Of course that does not apply to the Chinese people. That is altogether different.

There are many examples of this with China. Everyone knows, and everyone talks about it. One example is Falun Gong practitioners. These people have been fighting non-stop to protect the Chinese people from ideological conversion, forced re-education, forced labour, torture and organ harvesting programs. Everyone is aware of this.

The problem with China is that it is such a big economic power that people are afraid to stand up to it. Just look at what the current Prime Minister said in 2013 about China. However, the opposition and the Conservative Party have a duty to say that enough is enough and we need to stand up to this.

I am going to speak about another recent relationship between the government and a company owned by the Chinese communist regime, Nuctech. The Canadian government, through the Canada Border Services Agency, signed an agreement for equipment, which has already taken effect. The government also recently gave this company a contract to install X-ray machines in our embassies around the world.

Some members opposite have started saying that those machines were not connected directly, that it was not dangerous and so on, but that is not the issue. The problem is that Nuctech is known worldwide for fraud and corruption. All sorts of measures have been taken against this company around the world. It works directly with the Chinese People's Liberation Army to conduct espionage.

Perhaps the machines intended for our embassies were not connected directly, but who is to say that someone could not enter an embassy somewhere in the world when the equipment needs maintenance and install an electronic device in the machine to transmit information?

The biggest problem is that the government is doing business with Nuctech, a security equipment company that operates around the world and whose only mission is to collect intelligence and transmit it to the head of the Chinese Communist Party. A $6.8-million contract was on the table. Without the work of the media and the opposition parties, the government would probably have sent $6.8 million to Nuctech, and that company's equipment would be in our embassies.

Security officials and agencies tell us this relationship needs to end. Everyone says so. Major changes need to be made to the way Canada buys equipment. The government must not give Canadian taxpayers' money to companies controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. That is all there is to it. It is not Conservative ideology. I think the Bloc Québécois agrees and the Liberals know it, but their hands are tied because their leader sees things differently. That is the Liberals' problem at the moment.

It is all there. We have damning evidence and security reports from all over. Even security agencies working for the government send briefings about this, and there are public reports about it all. I am not talking about state secrets. I am talking about public reports.

We therefore oppose this $44-million expenditure in this year's estimates, when hundreds of billions of dollars have already been spent to deal with COVID-19. At some point, it has to stop. Some might argue that $44 million is not much compared to billions, but it is still a lot of money. Did anyone think about how many taxpayers it takes to raise $44 million? A taxpayer who earns $50,000 a year pays $20,000 in taxes. It takes a lot of people, who are giving their money away for nothing.

As a final point, I would like to mention Huawei, which poses the same problem. For two years now we have been saying that this company must be banned from Canada's 5G network for the same reasons, namely, security and economic reasons. If China manages to steal our intellectual property, it is the whole of Canada that loses.

When we look at the facts and at how this works, it is obvious to us that the Prime Minister is saying yes and the Conservative opposition is saying no. It is as simple as that.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:25 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, first of all, I am thinking in terms of the budget. The members talk about the one contract, and I do not believe that it goes through global affairs. I think it goes through industry, so I am questioning why they would bring it up under global affairs. Maybe the member could respond to that.

I appreciate when the member talks about there being better times with China. If we look at the last 20 years, there have been highs and lows in the relationship between Canada and China. Many of the agreements, for example the trade agreement signed by Stephen Harper when he was Prime Minister, had an impact for generations. It carries over.

I am asking the members to recognize that the Conservatives have not been consistent on the issue of China. Since they have been in opposition, they have been far more negative. I think there have been concerns with China for many years that even go back to the Harper times.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I would say to my colleague that the $44 million in question are simply listed under the Department of Foreign Affairs.

There is no doubt that approval happens there, and then Industry Canada proceeds with procurement, just like with Nuctech. That company caused a problem that we sorted through at the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. The Department of Foreign Affairs needed equipment for its embassies. The contract was signed by Public Services and Procurement Canada, but there was a communication problem. It cost us $250,000 to get Deloitte to try to understand what went wrong. This is an example of the complexity of the machine whose components do not always talk to one another.

As for the point raised by the parliamentary secretary related to former prime minister Harper, I would remind him what I said in my speech, which is that the current Minister of Foreign Affairs clearly said that the China of 2020 is not the China of 2015. He was referring to the early days of the Liberal government and we are not even talking about the Harper years.

What we are saying is that there has been a radical change in Chinese policies in the past five years. It has become more aggressive in terms of expansion and taking control. There is no use talking about the Harper years. We are talking about the past five years. It is not necessarily Canada's fault. China is the one that has decided to do things differently in the world. As for us, we also have a decision to make on how we want to react to this.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that we have no idea of the exact amounts that have been spent by this government during the pandemic.

How can we trust this government when it will not tell us how much it is spending?

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question and his excellent French.

Obviously this is a widespread concern, not just for the official opposition, but also, I think, for many Canadians. The nation's finances are out of control. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said as much, and many observers are saying that we must get it back under control.

The government needs to provide the information, lay its cards on the table and tell us exactly where we stand, because it is my children and grandchildren who will be footing the bill.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:25 p.m.

Green

Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Speaker, I am just noting that China is not the China of 2020. It is not the China of 2012 when Stephen Harper signed the Canada-China FIPA, and it is not the China of 1989.

To lock this country into a 31-year FIPA agreement is outrageous. If the hon. member read the FIPA agreements with all of the other countries we have signed FIPA agreements with, he would see that there is a “get out” clause after one year. We have been locked into a 31-year agreement and I think the Conservatives did this so that Sinopec and PetroChina, which have invested in the tar sands, could get their pipelines and product out of this country and invest in strategic resources, and to make sure there was a poison pill if we ever tried to stop pipelines that we do not want running through British Columbia.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, every era has its challenges.

At the time, the Harper government did what it thought was best. Now it is 2020. It is up to the current government to look at the situation and find solutions. We are here to help this government if it needs help.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:30 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, the pandemic has shaken us all. It has revealed a lot about our situation. I am thinking of Quebec's health care system and those of all the provinces. We have seen the extent to which our health care system has been compromised.

The pandemic has also revealed that Canada was very ill-equipped for various pandemics, even though there had been at least a few dress rehearsals in the past, such as H1N1 and SARS. Year after year, there has been a decline in funding for the equipment and expertise needed to prepare for pandemics.

We saw the same thing with the health care system. If we go back a few decades, Ottawa had an agreement with Quebec and the provinces to split the costs of the health care system equally. This ratio made perfect sense, because taxpayers pay around the same amount in taxes to Ottawa and to Quebec or the provinces.

However, over the past few decades, the federal government has been consistently decreasing its share of funding. The largest drop was in the mid-1990s. Shamefully, this was part of Ottawa's response to the lost referendum in Quebec. Ottawa decided that it would cut funding to the provinces, slashing funding to Quebec so that it would no longer be able to do things on its own.

This created a certain paradox. Quebec's health care system, among other things, was under-funded. The same thing happened in the other provinces. Quebec made an ingenious move, in my opinion, and implemented a pharmacare program that, admittedly, does have room for improvement. That said, with little financial capacity, Quebec managed to do something ingenious. The same is true when it comes to family policy and the child care system or paid parental leave, all of which helped bring poverty down to a level below what it would have been without those measures.

A number of economists have even said that Quebec's child care system provides a net benefit because it makes it possible for women to remain active in the workforce. That is a plus. They keep their jobs and pay taxes, and children in the child care system get a high-quality early childhood education.

However, Ottawa chose to cut funding to the health care system, which has weakened it. This has become clearer than ever in this pandemic. One example is the terrible situations in our long-term care homes.

This Thursday, the Prime Minister is going to meet his Quebec and provincial counterparts to talk about health care funding. In my opinion, it is time to change course and try to catch-up. The government needs to provide more funding for the health care system.

As the Parliamentary Budget Officer has indicated in study after study, Ottawa is the one with the flexibility. That explains why the bulk of the extraordinary spending that occurred during the pandemic was done by this level of government. The flexibility is here, and that is significant. It relates to the fiscal imbalance. What caused the fiscal imbalance? It was Ottawa withdrawing funding for health care, post-secondary education and social services.

It is time we changed course. We can no longer afford to have such a fragile health care system. That is what we have learned from the current pandemic. We knew it before, but now it has become blatantly obvious, particularly when we think about the plight of the thousands of people living in Quebec's long-term care facilities.

The federal government could have played a very important role in health care in addition to funding it. Let's hope the government will have some good news about that to share with us at the meeting on Thursday. As I said before, properly funding a health care system, making sure our health care system is not vulnerable, is an investment. When crises like this one arise, that investment enables us all to get through it and get back on our feet faster. It pays off in the end. Let's not forget that, fundamentally, this is also a social equity issue. In our wealthy society, quality health care is a right. It should not be a privilege.

The government could have made things better on the health front by securing a dependable COVID-19 vaccine supply. We are now realizing that the government appears to have made bad decisions ever since the start of the pandemic. Worse yet, it appears to have dragged its feet.

We see that other G7 countries, specifically the United Kingdom, are preparing to administer their first vaccines. Countries around the world are announcing that immunization is imminent. Despite the good news we heard today—that we could have a few doses, a symbolic few unfortunately, before the end of the year—it looks like we will have to wait months longer than other countries. It is truly appalling.

It would be interesting to know how much it would cost society to delay vaccination by one month. I asked the Minister of Health this question, but of course she did not have an answer. As we know, absolutely crucial restrictive health measures were put in place to try to stop the pandemic from spreading further, but what is the cost of delaying vaccination by one, two, three or six months? These are questions that need to be asked and that the government needs to answer, because it seems to have been dragging its feet at the beginning of the pandemic. It appears that we will be vaccinated later than citizens of other countries.

Even worse is that just a decade ago, Quebec had a very strong pharmaceutical industry. We know that in the late 1980s and 1990s, Quebec became a pharmaceutical powerhouse. Working hand in hand, Ottawa and Quebec City managed to put in place a framework that would allow pharmaceutical companies to emerge, proliferate and thrive on Quebec soil, and it was a success. In just a few years, Quebec managed to attract five multinational pharmaceutical companies that have all developed a promising vaccine or are on their way to doing so. We had top-notch researchers and production capacity, including for vaccines, back home in Quebec. A few decades later, there is almost nothing left, nothing but dust.

I obviously commend the government's intention of investing in laboratories. These investments that were announced this fall come a bit too late, in my opinion, because it will take a few years to build the production capacity. This will not help us deal with the current pandemic.

Why did the government neglect this lucrative system that we could be proud of and that gave us expertise that we could have used during this pandemic?

In fact, there is every reason to believe that we could have received vaccines earlier. They might even have been developed here, whether in the greater Montreal area, Laval, Quebec City or Sherbrooke. That did not happen because Ottawa decided to abandon this sector, change the rules, and change the system. Even though Quebec redoubled its efforts to keep this expertise, it was not enough in this highly competitive environment.

Walking away from all that is unacceptable. I am so disappointed and upset. This must never happen again. We will see what the future holds with regard to vaccines.

I would like to raise another point about vaccines. I will go back a little further in time and talk about a company that manufactured quality vaccines. Why did Ottawa decide to drop this internationally renowned, publicly owned company that supplied vaccine strains to almost every country in the world? Why did Ottawa allow this company to be dismantled and then sold?

I am referring to Connaught Laboratories, which was located in Toronto. Connaught was established in 1913 and had a rich history. Unfortunately, in the early 1970s, it was sold to a Crown corporation and ceased its previous activities before being fully privatized in the late 1980s. That is what happened under past governments of different stripes. Connaught had the ability to produce vaccines at little cost and had an international reputation.

The bad decisions made in the past partly explain the delays we ar going to experience. These are important issues. We must reflect on them. Perhaps history will teach us not to repeat these unfortunate mistakes.

A number of sectors were left out of the government's pandemic response, but there were some positives. I will come back to that in a moment. In my opinion, seniors were largely forgotten by the government.

Seniors are the ones who have been most isolated during the pandemic. They are really struggling, and we are thinking of them. They often live alone and will likely not be able to celebrate the holidays. They have been isolated for months. On top of that, they are staying home and having their groceries delivered, since they have been warned that seniors are at greater risk. All of this contributes to an ever-growing grocery bill.

This segment of the population has been forgotten for years, even decades. Many social policies have been adopted and implemented for families and young people, which I will say is great. However, there have been few or no meaningful policies to support the well-being of seniors, even as their cost of living has increased while their purchasing power has decreased.

I am thinking about old age security, which has not kept up with inflation and is therefore not where it should be. Even before the pandemic, when we would go visit people in seniors' residences, we saw it and heard about it; people would tell us that the cost of the rooms, the rent, and the cost of everything was going up while their incomes were going down, thereby reducing their purchasing power.

It had gone down so much that during the last election, the Liberal Party committed to increasing old age security. We did too, but while the Liberal Party promised to do that only for people 75 and older, it was out of the question that we would create two categories of seniors. The increase had to apply to everyone 65 and older because they all deserve it. We owe it to them, because they have helped us so much their entire lives. It was the least we could do to ensure tax equity and fairness.

After a very lengthy tug-of-war, we managed to wrest a symbolic cheque out of the government in early summer. A second cheque was to follow, but it has yet to materialize, much like a complete reform. This needs to change.

That being said, I must commend the good the government has done. From day one of the pandemic, it has implemented several income support economic policies.

We do not want to act like our neighbours to the south and pretend that the pandemic does not exist. That has had serious consequences and made health care costs go up. In Canada, we decided to quarantine and bring in measures that would reduce activity—

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I think we lost our Internet connection. We cannot really hear the member.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, can you hear me now?

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We can hear you, but we cannot really see you. The image is fuzzy.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, that is a shame. I can see you very well. I will stop speaking now.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Let us move on to questions and comments and hope we can hear your answers.

The member for Louis-Saint-Laurent.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Joliette, who once again delivered a very interesting speech.

I recognize and always welcome the relevance of his remarks, although I do not always agree them entirely. One example that comes to mind is when he talked about the “lost referendum”. The majority did win. It depends on whether we see the glass as half full or half empty. More specifically, I want to commend the soundness of the member's arguments, which are always fact based, so I wanted to point that out.

He outlined a number of problems that arose during the pandemic and how they were dealt with. One of those problems had a much more serious impact that we might have expected. In 2000, Canada distinguished itself by creating an organization to monitor health-related matters, including pandemic preparedness. Should a pandemic unfortunately occur, that organization was supposed to detect problems before they could affect our daily lives too much.

That organization served us well. Unfortunately, the current government dismantled it in 2019 and handed over its responsibilities to international organizations, which, as the New York Times reported, were in China's pocket, with all the negative repercussions that entails.

What does my colleague from Joliette think of that?

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, I hope that my connection is working better than it was a few minutes ago. I thank my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent for his question.

We do sometimes disagree. With regard to the 1995 referendum, I would say that, in my opinion, all of Quebec lost, but it was mainly the yes side that failed to convince the majority. As a good democrat, I respect the results of the people's vote.

It is unacceptable that the government shut down the monitoring agency and closed glove and gown warehouses. It made no sense for Canada, a G7 country, to lose its expertise on pandemics and public health crises. Yes, multilateralism is important and we need to work with all the other countries. Let us participate in all that. However, it was certainly a rookie mistake to shut down that monitoring agency.

For the sake of the national interest and a strategic vision, we need to keep those kinds of tools. I hope Quebec will always work for the national interest. I often criticize the fact that Ottawa does not do the same for Quebec's interests. If my connection had been better, I would have talked about the aerospace industry.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:50 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I disagree with the member when he tries to give the impression that the Canadian government has not done well on the vaccination issue. In fact, I would challenge the member to tell me what other country has provided the vaccine before the month of December. My understanding is that Canada will be providing some vaccinations as early as this month.

When we take a look at the portfolio of vaccines, I would ask the member to tell me what other country in the world has a larger portfolio than Canada in regard to agreements with pharmaceuticals and others, ensuring that the Canadian population is being well served by the hard work of civil servants and other stakeholders. Canada is going to be well served when it comes to vaccinations.

Concurrence in Vote 1—Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain Estimates, 2020-21Government Orders

7:50 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Madam Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and I had this discussion during questions and comments on another day.

Essentially, we do not need to have 10, 12, 15 or 20 different vaccines per person. Canada is number one in that sense. What we do need is to get one good vaccine quickly for everyone. Canada does not seem to be number one on that score. In fact, it seems to be the only G7 country in this situation. Apparently even Mexico will vaccinate its population before Canada. All the better for Mexico, as it did the right thing. It seems that Canada's government dragged its feet at the start of the pandemic, then signed multiple agreements, thinking that this would allow it to say that it had done a good job.

As I said to my colleague when he asked me this question, we will have the final answer in a few months. That said, based on what we are hearing and reading and according to the experts we have consulted, it seems that Canada's population will be vaccinated a few months after the U.S. and most European countries. That is—