House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was impact.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

March 9th, 2020 / 5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

Madam Speaker, I want to ask my colleague if he remembers this. The parliamentary secretary has stood a few times today. On one hand, he recalls how the previous Harper government wanted to keep a line on spending back in the fall of 2008 after the election. On the other hand, the Liberals like to remind the House about the deficits the government had to incur after 2008.

It was in December 2008 when the leader of the Liberal party, the leader of the Bloc Québécois and the leader of the NDP all signed an agreement forcing the government of the day, a minority, to spend billions of dollars. In fact, some Liberal MPs were basically on their knees, begging for deficits of the government.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

An hon. member

I'm sure that's how it went down.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

That is exactly how it went down.

Could my colleague please speak to why we should save during the good times so we can invest during the tough times?

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Madam Speaker, yes, we should be saving at this time for what is coming ahead.

As I said earlier, we are sleepwalking into a crisis and the government is not aware of that.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the member this question, because the issue around transparency and accountability of course is related—

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Order, please. I am sorry I have to interrupt. Other people are interrupting the member while she is speaking. I want to remind members that when someone has the floor to be respectful and allow that person to speak. I am reminding members on both sides of the House.

The hon. member for Vancouver East.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, I know the Conservatives like to think of themselves as a group that aspires to be transparent and accountable to Canadian taxpayers with respect to their money. However, on the question around the TMX project, what we do know is that it is financed by Canadian taxpayers and is managed by Export Development Canada, which is used only for high-risk projects, because they do not qualify for typical commercial financing.

This is what the Liberal government is doing with the TMX project. To that end, would it not make sense for the government to be open and transparent and to ensure that all of its business plan, if there is one, and I believe there is not one on the TMX project, is tabled in the House? Would that be something the Conservatives would support in the spirit of this motion?

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Madam Speaker, we fully support the TMX pipeline. We believe it did not need to be purchased by the government, but we do fully support it.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Bloc

Alain Therrien Bloc La Prairie, QC

Madam Speaker, I would first like to say that I will be sharing my time with the member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

We support this motion, where we see two important trends. The first is transparency, which we obviously support. In her remarks, the member for Laurentides—Labelle clearly stressed the benefits of transparency in politics. The Bloc Québécois always makes a point of being transparent in its political actions.

Second, the motion talks about the current federal deficit. Racking up such a deficit in a time of economic prosperity is no small feat and makes no sense. Historically, the creation of the Canadian federation and the Constitution left an indelible mark that has had negative and even harmful effects on the budgets of Canada's provinces and Quebec. I am talking about the fiscal imbalance. This expression began to be associated with a very simple situation: the needs were in the provinces and Quebec while the money was in Ottawa.

Back then, the provincial and Quebec governments had recurring deficits because the federal government was getting extremely high revenues from various forms of taxation without doing much spending. People who know about fiscal imbalance have said from the start that the truth first came to light in 2003. Quebec was actually the first to catch on. That is par for the course, as Quebec tends to figure lots of things out before anyone else, including the fact that Canada is dysfunctional.

The other provinces confirmed it was true, and the Parliamentary Budget Officer constantly tells us himself that there is a fiscal imbalance between the federal government, the provinces and Quebec. To prove that I am right, the fiscal imbalance was first mentioned not in 2003 but way back in 1902. As far back as 1887, the Canadian provinces were saying there was a fly in the ointment of the Canadian federation, as Marjolain Dufour would put it. In spite of this fiscal imbalance, the federal government continues to rack up one deficit after another. It beggars belief.

The amounts paid for health care are an example of the fiscal imbalance. Everyone in Canada, except the federal government, agrees that the figures are too low. The Liberals want to spend, spend, spend but are cracking down on the provinces. In the Thompson report, published in 2014 in Quebec by the Groupe d'experts pour un financement axé sur les patients, a panel of experts in support of patient-focused funding, noted that an aging population, population growth, technological improvements and inflation are driving up health care costs by an average of 5.2% a year—and this is just to maintain services. The federal government, however, gives the provinces just 3%. That is what you call a fiscal imbalance. The federal government continues to rack up deficits, which is about as amazing as putting a grasshopper on a pogo stick.

My colleague from Joliette, who is an economist, talked about the current economic situation. Theories developed by John Maynard Keynes in and around 1936 taught us that it is important to stabilize the economy and spend more in times of economic crisis. To avoid going into debt, governments should spend during economic crises. In contrast, in times of economic prosperity, governments should cut now-unnecessary spending and use the surplus to pay off previously acquired deficits. Basically, governments should run deficits during recessions and pay off debts when the economy is growing, but the Liberals run deficits during periods of growth. I am not making this up.

Such is the current federal government's management. According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, in Canada, deficits at the federal level are rather rare, but this government manages to run deficits anyway. I must tip my hat and say that I am very impressed by the government's management of the public purse. I am being sarcastic, of course.

In 2015, when the Prime Minister was running for office, he promised to take advantage of the low interest rates to run deficits to improve infrastructure. His government was going to rebuild Canada and use these investments to provide services to the public. Wonderful! He said there would be deficits at the start of his term and then a return to balanced budgets. That is not so bad.

As it turns out, there were successive deficits. They dug a $100-billion hole during their first term in office and, on top of not eliminating the deficit, they announced an even bigger deficit while promising more of the same in the next election. Not to worry, everything is fine and dandy. The Liberals continued to run deficits at a time when everything was going well. The clouds now hanging over our heads were yet to arrive.

If governing means anticipating events, if a good government is one that can foresee what is coming, then this government leaves much to be desired, as we saw during the rail crisis.

Let's take a look at what is happening today. The Liberals ran up chronic deficits with chronic spending. Instead of investing in infrastructure and then stopping to reduce the deficit, they continued with their chronic spending. The hole just kept getting deeper with each passing year, and their brilliant idea was to keep digging.

What will they do now when the stock exchange is in free fall, there is the threat of the coronavirus, and the rail crisis has become a serious crisis because people are unable to plan ahead? The problems are piling up. This government is unable to respond when the need arises. This government is unable to tell us when it will stop running up deficits or when things will start getting better. That is a problem. There is no transparency. The Bank of Canada has lowered its prime rate by 0.5% to help the government avoid an even deeper economic crisis. That is where things stand with this government.

To look at them, we get the impression that the Liberals do not realize that they are a bunch of amateurs. That is unfortunate, because the people of Quebec and the rest of Canada are the ones paying the price.

We will be voting in favour of the motion and hope to get some answers to understand how this government is managing our public finances. One does not ask for directions from someone who is lost. Of course, the sharing of this information will help us understand the extent to which the government's lack of vision is characteristic of what the Liberal Party of Canada has always stood for.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Gatineau Québec

Liberal

Steven MacKinnon LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement

Madam Speaker, I listened carefully to my hon. colleague's speech. The Bloc Québécois doomsayers are out in full force today. What the member failed to mention is the tens of millions of dollars that have been given to parents in ridings across Quebec to help with the cost of child rearing; the unemployment rate of 4.5%, the lowest it has been in the members's lifetime; and the nearly 300,000 jobs that have been created in Quebec since we took office.

I would like to ask my colleague opposite and all the Bloc Québécois doomsayers to confirm that they failed to mention in their speeches some of the good things that have been done for Quebec since 2015.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Bloc

Alain Therrien Bloc La Prairie, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his questions.

People usually think of me as an optimist, but the member opposite just called me a doomsayer. I absolutely cannot accept that.

As for the money going to Quebec taxpayers, I can tell my colleague that if he tries to seek treatment in Quebec, he will find out that certain things need more money spent on them than they are getting at present. People who need health care are paying the price for the government's inaction.

The government is not listening to the provinces. It does not understand that the cuts to health transfers are leaving the health care system increasingly vulnerable.

I would like to be able to tell my colleague he is right about the unemployment rate and my age. However, I am older than I look. I was born in 1966, so I have seen lower unemployment than this. Statistics Canada's own data shows that the unemployment rate was lower from 1966 to 1976.

My final point—

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I am sorry. I must allow time for other questions.

The hon. member for Souris—Moose Mountain.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from La Prairie for his comments about the disaster the government is creating. He mentioned how the Liberals promised they would only run a $10-billion deficit in 2015 and that by 2019 they would balance the budget and yet they have not. That continues to skyrocket.

Another thing the member talked about very briefly was the rail blockades. In Quebec, people have had big challenges with the rail blockades. There is a reduced amount of propane that has been able to get to farmers to help them in drying their grain. That is having a big impact on Quebec farmers. I would be interested to hear how the member sees that piling up for further and further deficits.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Alain Therrien Bloc La Prairie, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments and his question.

He is right. It is unbelievable that some members on the other side boasted about how the rail crisis was managed. They found a way to brag about it.

People will say that they were patient. They were not patient. They let the issue drag on. That is not the same thing. It took them 20 days to wake up. During the first 10 days, the Prime Minister was on vacation and did not want to be bothered. During the following 10 days they did not really know what to do, so they passed it off to the provinces. In the last 10 days, they realized that the Bloc Québécois's proposals actually made sense and decided to try those solutions 20 days too late.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, just on that issue, the truth of the matter is the Conservatives failed to address the issue. Had they actually listened to the Supreme Court of Canada's decision in Delgamuukw regarding engaging with the indigenous communities and the leadership about a path forward on the question around land and title and governance, we might not have found ourselves in this situation. Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have failed Canadians on that score.

Regarding this motion, does the member not think the government should be providing all the information that it has with respect to the Trans Mountain expansion, so that Canadians will know what is happening in terms of their tax dollars? Should the government also provide the business plan so that we know whether there really is a business case for the TMX?

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Alain Therrien Bloc La Prairie, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for her question.

Trans Mountain is obviously very problematic. The government will have to answer to the public. We want to get these figures to know how much an outmoded industry has been subsidized and how much Quebec taxpayers have paid to prop it up.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

ÔMadam Speaker, I have the honour to rise today to speak to the motion moved by my Conservative Party colleagues as part of the business of supply.

We know that the agenda of the House could be affected by the result of the vote that will be held this evening on whether to adopt the motion that our Conservative colleagues moved in the House on Friday, February 28.

I must commend the Conservative Party staff for their sophisticated expertise and mastery of the most subtle technical details of the parliamentary procedure that guides our work. Unfortunately, the official opposition's tactics are not always in line with the public will that was expressed on October 21 and the anticipated impacts of the general co-operation among all parties under a minority government in this House.

For the benefit of my colleagues and, more particularly, the thousands of individuals who follow our work via various platforms, I would like to read the motion exactly as it is worded in order to better frame my argument to show that this motion is irrelevant. The motion proposes, and I quote:

That an order of the House do issue for any document prepared by any department, agency and Crown corporation since November 4, 2015, discussing warnings or concerns of economic downturns, their potential impact on the fiscal framework, or advice or recommendations on how to deal with them; and that the documents be provided to the House within 45 days following the adoption of this motion.

Honestly, Madam Speaker, if you and I could have dreamed up a better fishing expedition, we would have wasted no time assembling our best gear. We could have shared some exceptionally convivial moments.

I believe a digression is not uncalled for here. Members will agree that, since Parliament resumed, the Bloc Québécois has made phenomenal strides for Quebec thanks to the hard work of our leader's team and our sincere dedication to Quebec's best interests at the federal level.

Since day one of this Parliament, the Bloc Québécois has emerged as the locomotive powering opposition to the Liberal government, no dubious pun intended in relation to the Prime Minister's disastrous leadership in recent weeks.

Virtually all of the most influential and distinguished commentators from the most prestigious media outlets in Quebec and Canada agree on the Bloc Québécois's judicious, informed positions. In fact, many have mentioned that at times the leader of the Bloc Québécois looked like the true prime minister of Canada, thanks to his level-headed and sincere approach, which reflects the approach Quebec has been taking towards first nations for decades.

That is the end of my digression, and I thank my colleagues for indulging me. Please excuse my unbridled enthusiasm, for when I speak to the role of the Bloc Québécois in Ottawa, my pride and passion overtake the normally modest character of my interventions in this august chamber.

Obviously, parliamentarians' attention must be laser-focused on the fears and reactions linked to the fragile economic indicators flashing in financial markets, rather than on blatant attempts to distract people, as our colleagues are doing in the most crass, partisan way.

Modernity brings about change among all walks of life. From this time of economic uncertainty and social upheaval will come brighter days. I believe that, and it is my sincere wish for my colleagues from western Canada.

I also urge them to study all the initiatives developed by Quebec over the past 60 years to diversify its economy and its unparalleled approaches that have prepared it to embrace the 21st century and not be left behind.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Speaker, I find it very interesting that my colleague describes the Prime Minister and the Liberal government's leadership as disastrous and says we should be focused like a laser on financial markets, yet has no particular interest in how we came to be where we are, whether there were warning signs or whether there were steps that could have been taken by the disastrous leadership of the government.

I do not understand how he is reconciling his two points, other than saying how wonderful the Bloc is. If the member really believes the leadership of the federal government has been so disastrous, I would like to know how we are to determine how disastrous it is.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

Clearly, we have repeatedly criticized the government's lack of leadership. We know that it wanted to blame Quebec and the different provinces at the beginning of the crisis. We definitely presented concrete measures and solutions to resolve the serious problem of rail blockades.

As already mentioned, we will vote in favour of the motion moved today. The government must answer our questions.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Gatineau Québec

Liberal

Steven MacKinnon LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement

Madam Speaker, I listened carefully to my colleague. I would like to offer a bit of a history lesson.

We did indeed go through a financial crisis in 2008. The Conservative Party's response, praised in my colleague's speech, consisted of making cuts, dismissing public servants, and then making even more cuts. They later had to redeem themselves with support from the Liberal Party.

Today, the Liberal Party is taking an entirely different path. I would therefore ask the hon. member to clarify something. Which path does he want to take?

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague across the way for the question.

The Liberal Party has run up huge deficits over the past few years. Instead of giving money to the banks and finding solutions to stimulate the economy, we need to go back to the drawing board.

With today's motion, we wish to truly get answers to our questions.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It being 6:15 p.m., and this being the final supply day of the period ending March 26, 2020, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply.

The question is on the motion.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Opposition Motion—Documents on Economic DownturnsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.