Debates of April 20th, 2020

COVID-19 Pandemic

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, I will come back to the fisheries. How does that sound? We will give the minister another couple of days.

On the emergency response benefit, we have had some direction. It now applies to individuals who earn $1,000 more a month, but what about incorporated businesses? I am thinking now of a fishing boat, for example, or a small farm where these incorporated businesses are bringing in revenue, but they are losing money. Their expenses are higher than their revenues and the individuals who work for these incorporated businesses, the owners, are not taking an income. The income is zero but they have revenue coming in.

Would these businesses qualify for the CERB benefit?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Madam Chair, in the case of small businesses in the agriculture and fishing sectors, it is true that there are situations where business owners do not give themselves a salary. They pay themselves through surpluses and dividends. It is on a case-by-case basis, but the rules are clear: The individual must have an income of at least $5,000 in the previous year to qualify for the Canada emergency response benefit.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, I want to be very clear on this because we are getting calls from not only these businesses but also accountants who are unclear how to proceed.

I think I heard the minister say that if they have no income, zero income with a revenue stream, but they are underwater and operating in the red, that they would qualify for the CERB. They would be able to qualify for this while they are working, bringing in revenue, but their expenses are higher.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Minister of Small Business]

Madam Chair, in fact, one of the examples I have shared recently is an example like the one the member just provided, which is of a company that has been able to take advantage of the wage subsidy to keep its employees on staff. It has been able to take advantage of the loan because it qualifies, but that employer's paycheque is now gone and because of that it has been able to take advantage of the CERB.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Chair, are there other parameters on these incorporated businesses? Do they, for example, have to show a loss for the year?

I ask this because a business could be in a short-term situation where there is no income coming in. Is there a requirement that an incorporated business would have to show a loss for the year?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, my department does a call every day with literally over 1,000 businesses and associations, and very specific questions like this are coming up. I would like to follow up with the hon. member and provide him with information to help him with the businesses in his area.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Madam Chair, these are difficult days for all, and today I heard of the passing of a great Barrie resident. I will use the first valuable moments of my time to regretfully inform the House of the passing of the hon. Aileen Carroll.

Aileen started in politics as a Barrie city councillor in 1995 and rose in politics to become a federal cabinet minister in 2003. Aileen later served in the Ontario legislature.

Aileen leaves behind her husband, Kevin, of 52 years, her children Daniel and Joanna, and her grandchildren. My thoughts go out to Aileen's family at this time. Aileen will be greatly missed by all who knew her.

I would like to remind everyone of the words “parliamentary co-operation and collaboration”. We all use these buzzwords many times. In the tone of these phrases, I would like to ask the government: How can we, the opposition, help the government during this crisis and what resources does it need from us? We are all in this together.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Madam Chair, first of all, I thank the member for paying that moving tribute. All members in the House join him in this sorrow.

Many of the questions I have heard today have been very helpful. I have particularly been grateful for the questions where people have asked about specific issues, either in their ridings or specific issues in the areas in which they are a critic. Please know that ministers have been listening carefully, and we will get back to members on each of those specific things. That is not the only thing that has been helpful, but that is one of them, and I thank everyone who has been drawing attention to these specific areas.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Madam Chair, I have a specific question then.

During the pandemic crisis, one of the disgusting sides that has arisen is the rise in fraud. It is hard to believe that criminals are out there taking advantage of people in this time of need.

Has the government considered providing tougher sentences for individuals found to be committing fraud against individuals during this pandemic?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, perhaps in the bipartisan spirit of the Aileen Carroll tribute we have just heard, I will quote the premier of Ontario, who was rightfully very passionate in denouncing anyone who would seek to price gouge, who would seek to be fraudulent or who would seek to profit off of the pain and suffering of Canadians today. I will begin by denouncing that kind of selfish behaviour in the strongest possible terms, and as a society, we just have to not tolerate anyone behaving that way.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Madam Chair, further to that question, many police services across Canada are scrambling right now to find the resources to cover their day-to-day business. Now they have been added this increase in fraud across Canada.

Will the federal government be able to help any of the police services across Canada with some extra resources to fight this battle?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as the member opposite knows, policing is done principally by the provinces, although of course the RCMP plays an essential role. We are very aware of the fiscal strain that provinces and municipalities are facing and that is something that we are discussing with our provincial partners.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Madam Chair, before I came today, I asked residents to give me some specific questions and I have some here.

Sue from my riding asked, “Studio businesses like pilates and yoga instructors, physiotherapists, chiropractors, massage therapists and many others are falling through the cracks. They do not qualify for CEBA. Why is the government allowing these businesses to fail while propping up other businesses? What will the government do to fix this?”

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I appreciate that very good question. Know that, for those businesses, we are listening to them and we are working our way through it. We want to see all of our businesses, particularly those ones that the member just described, be supported through this very difficult time because they are at the very heart of our communities and it is important that we support them during COVID-19.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, I want to share with the House that the riding of Essex truly has world-class manufacturing, but it is equalled with world-class generosity. The moment that COVID-19 hit, when so many manufacturing businesses shut down the community came together. I know this because I have sat in on numerous Zoom calls along with them. They have created test kits. They have created ventilators. They have created face masks and hand sanitizer galore. The hiccup that they are having is that they cannot get approval from Health Canada.

I have a two-pronged question. First, how long is the wait time to get approval from Health Canada currently? Second, how long will it take to clear that backlog?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, I share the member opposite's true gratitude to the many companies that have come forward, not just from Essex but from all across the country, retooling their ability to manufacture personal protective equipment or other medical devices, diagnostic testing, all kinds of things. In fact, over 5,000 companies have stepped up to offer their capacity and expertise. We have actually ramped up the ability to approve very quickly, but I will remind the member opposite that there is still a process where companies have to work closely with Health Canada to ensure that the products they are marketing are in fact safe, that they do what they promise to do and that we do not have equipment or products on the market that could in any way hamper our attempts to fight this pandemic.

If the member opposite knows of a particular company that is struggling to get Health Canada approval, please send that to me through my email. I am more than happy to ensure that we take a closer look. In some cases, it is just a matter of more information that needs to be transmitted to Health Canada, but it is always valuable to take a look if there is a particular company that is struggling to get that approval.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, I certainly appreciate that help from the minister, as will my constituents.

The government sent PPE to China right before this crisis began. Later, the government trumpeted the fact that China had sent PPE to Canada; however, other countries have reported serious problems with PPE sent from China.

Is the government confident that there are no defects with personal protective equipment imported from China?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair. Unless it is from a supplier that we have ordered from before, for example 3M, all equipment that we either receive in donation or that we purchase, no matter which country of origin, is put through a quality test to ensure it is safe to distribute and it meets requirements as set by Health Canada. The last thing we want to do is distribute PPE that in any way endangers the lives of people who are using it and depending on it.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, given that other countries have reported problems with PPE from China, is Canada experiencing the same problem?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair, some of the equipment we received was not suitable for medical care workers, and we are looking at that equipment to see if it can be repurposed for other kinds of workers who do not need the same level of protection.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, the Liberals shipped 16 tonnes of PPE to China in February. Did the government verify if Canada indeed had enough PPE for our own needs before sending it off to China?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, I will remind the member opposite that the national emergency stockpile was never designed to have PPE for all health workers in the case of a global pandemic. In fact, it supplies primarily antivirals for the experience of pandemic influenza, with the capacity to support provinces and territories for particular surges.

Having said that, yes, in fact, our contribution of nearly expired equipment to China, in particular to go to the city of Wuhan, was part of a global effort to try to contain the virus in China and provide protection for those health care workers. It is based on the principle that countries come together to support a country that is experiencing outbreaks, so that it has the best chance of success at containing that outbreak. Unfortunately, as the world knows now, that was not the case and we now have a pandemic here in Canada. However, we have been able to complete all 33 of the current requests from provinces and territories for equipment from the national emergency stockpile.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Madam Chair, can the minister tell us how many ventilators we expect we are going to need in the next month from now on, based on the current projections where we sit today? If so, do we have enough ventilators to meet that projection?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, that is a difficult question to answer.

If we continue to flatten the curve, and it appears Canada is having some success in doing so, then the number of ventilators that we currently have might meet our needs. In fact, that is why we have worked so hard as Canadians all across the country to flatten the curve. It is not just to protect lives, which of course is the primary purpose, but it is also to protect the health care system so that we do not experience a surge, and so that we do not have doctors in the unfortunate position of many doctors around the world who have had to decide who gets a ventilator and who does not.

Having said that, we have secured additional ventilators. We have companies that are producing ventilators here domestically. We are certain that even if we do not need all of the ventilators that we procure, we will be able to share them with other countries that are behind us in this crisis.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Chair, for weeks there have been growing concerns about maintaining our food processing capacity during a pandemic. There are emerging gaps in staffing and running processing plants. We are already at a critical junction, particularly here in Ontario. Ranchers and farmers have been asking for a temporary cattle set-aside program to effectively maintain marketing and feeding cattle. It worked during the BSE crisis.

Cargill just announced today that its facility in High River will be temporarily closing down because of a recent outbreak among its employees. It is responsible for 36% of Canada's beef processing. It is an enormous strain all down the line for producers, feeders and processors. This urgently reinforces the need for a set-aside program that producers and feeders have been calling for.

Will the Minister of Agriculture institute a temporary set-aside program for Canadian cattle producers?