Debates of Dec. 8th, 2021

Supplementary Estimates (B), 2021-22

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Absolutely, Madam Chair. The problem is that we have not yet measured the housing gap in indigenous communities. That is what the Minister of Indigenous Services will be focusing on for the next year. We have included funding in our budgets to figure that out. I totally agree with my colleague.

I know this was not her intention, but I would add that separating the departments was not a luxury. It was strongly advised by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I completely agree with the minister. That would be a luxury for me; I cannot split myself in three. There are just not as many of us, as my colleagues know, so we always have to do more.

In fact, as the minister said—and this is just an aside before my next question—the AFNQL has figured it out already and has been aware of these needs for decades now. I invite the minister, his staff and all the teams of people who could work together to address those needs to get in touch with the associations. They already know the details, so I am sure they would be delighted to collaborate.

Everyone agrees that there is a major gap and that it cannot just be closed. There is no plan for after those five years are up. We need a long-term plan. Five years is not a long time. It is very likely one Parliament given that this is a minority government. How is the government planning to close the resulting gaps?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, I would add that the AFNQL and its chief, Chief Picard, would say loud and clear that they themselves do not hold the rights. The communities must be consulted to determine what the best measure is, and that is what the Minister of Indigenous Services plans to do. We do not know what that number will be. It could be a lot more, but it needs to be measured and the shortfall needs to be filled.

We are talking about the government's commitment, which has been stated loud and clear, to close this gap by 2030. Obviously, this will not happen in the next three to five years, especially in remote communities, even though they may have the greatest needs because of their remote location. The construction season is a lot shorter because of the weather. This is a calling that will need to be maintained and worked on relentlessly.

Several departments are involved, not necessarily just the Minister of Indigenous Services and me, but also the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities. Up to five departments could be involved in addressing this need.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I agree that it can be complex. That is why we separatists like it when things are simpler, when there are fewer levels of government and fewer parties involved.

Overall, the AFNQL is representative. It represents its members and knows what is going on. It has an excellent view of what is happening in communities, and it knows what they need.

Is the government not concerned that by under-investing, it is deferring expenditures that will become even more significant in future? We spoke about northern communities. Construction is an issue in the north, whether it is on the territory of the Naskapi in Quebec or in Cree and Inuit communities.

At the same time, the reality is that indigenous communities are very young. There are many families and many children, and we are unable to house them. It is not necessarily about geography, but about demographics. With money, I would hope that we can do it. We are not fighting the climate but a dire lack of funding.

There is already a shortfall. In the minister's view, if we fail to make sufficient investments now, will we be further postponing investments of even greater amounts in housing for indigenous communities?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, my colleague is absolutely right. If there is one lesson we must learn from the pandemic right now, it is that housing means more than just a roof over one's head. Health is a big issue too, because we know that overcrowded housing leads to outbreaks of diseases such as tuberculosis and COVID‑19. That is a constant worry.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I am very glad to hear the minister talk about the pandemic, which might have exposed and exacerbated needs and challenges in various sectors.

I would like to remind that minister that the Viens commission report said the housing problem had “emerged as the epicentre of many of the issues faced by the First Nations and Inuit”. According to the indigenous leaders I speak to in their capacity as community representatives, one of the biggest problems they have to tackle is housing, which is the root cause of many other problems, difficulties and even tragedies.

I would like to know if housing is a priority for the government, if not its top priority, as it is for band councils and chiefs.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, it is a top priority, so much so that I would like to thank the former Treasury Board president for approving the substantial sum of $6 billion right before the general election so we could get that money out the door quickly. That funding will help close the existing gap over the next three to five years.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I would remind the minister that I am glad that $6 billion has been invested, but that amount was for all of Canada. Quebec alone needs more than $4 billion over the next five years, as I mentioned earlier. The amount of federal funding is $6 billion, yes, but so far only $2.8 billion has gone out the door for all of Canada.

Quebec therefore has a $4‑billion shortfall. We must also consider what this could mean for Canada and remember that the $6 billion covers only the next five years. Nothing is planned for after that, which means we will have another shortfall. That amount is simply not enough, and I wanted to point that out.

People will correct me if I am wrong, but according to everyone I have spoken with, housing is a cornerstone of first nations development and well-being. Nevertheless, I would like to raise some other issues.

I would like to talk about residential schools, which were mentioned earlier. This matter came up five days before the election.

The Prime Minister announced an investment that the minister said earlier was in the tens of thousands of dollars, but it is more like $320 million over three years to fund searches for unmarked graves, as well as the demolition or rehabilitation of former residential school sites.

That $320 million was announced five days before the federal election was called. After the election, some time went by before Parliament opened, and we see that we have not made much headway. I would like to know where we are today on this file that essentially amounts to an election promise.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, I do not want to dispute what the member is saying in the House, but I believe that the announcement was made much more than five days before the election was called.

As of today, and I will verify this in case I am mistaken, 28 projects have been approved and many more have been submitted. There is overlap since some communities saw children taken from their families and sent to the same institution.

I would like to disburse these funds as quickly as possible because there are needs to fill, but I will follow the pace and needs of the communities. We certainly need to provide some investments in Quebec, perhaps even in the member's riding. We will be there with the communities, on an as-needed basis.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, actually, it's Uashat mak Mani-utenam.

Going back to the date, it may have been a few days before. I am not going to argue about the dates, but we can agree that the announcement was made before the election was called. However, whenever we are in an election period, nothing happens; nothing gets done.

I understand, of course, that there are a number of projects, and $320 million was mentioned. I would like to know where the approved projects are at and where we are in terms of the budget. What amounts have been allocated to the projects that have been selected so far? I realize that there are others that are still being analyzed.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like some clarification. Is the member asking how much of the $320 million has been allocated, or is she talking about a supplementary budget?

The budget itself is spread across a few departments, specifically, my own, Indigenous Services Canada, particularly for mental health support and assistance, Canadian Heritage and Infrastructure Canada, for the demolition or repair of buildings, as needed.

That would have to be sorted out. If I am not mistaken, the amount is at least $50 million or $60 million, but it could be much more. I will ask my deputy minister to confirm this quickly.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, can the minister tell me the amount of funding requested by the government in the supplementary estimates (B) for the same cause?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, that funding is not reflected in the supplementary estimates (B). I would have to look and sort that out. The funds were approved and distributed by Treasury Board.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the minister and ask him to provide an answer in writing.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, I will certainly do that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to talk about another subject: the comprehensive land claims policy.

On February 14, 2018, the Liberal government announced a recognition and implementation of indigenous rights framework to replace the policy at the time, the comprehensive land claims policy. Three years on, we are still waiting for that framework, and in the meantime, we passed Bill C‑15 to implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I would like to know where we are at on the policy.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, to answer that question, I would have to go into a lot more detail than my time here permits. It is a long-term process to get rid of past policies that are clearly both racist and colonial. The framework is there, but there has to be recognition of rights based on the paradigm and the community's needs. Progress is happening across the country, and we are respecting communities' priorities. That is what we will keep doing.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Madam Chair, the minister is talking about colonialism as a thing of the past, but colonialism still exists today. What I heard was not a clear answer on where things stand. The minister talked about progress, but what meaningful action has been taken since 2018 with regard to reviewing the comprehensive land claims policy?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Madam Chair, indigenous communities are telling us loud and clear that this must not be handled by people in Ottawa only. The policies need to be changed, and this overhaul needs to be done. However, some clauses are no longer being used, including extinguishment clauses, and they need to be removed.

This uncertainty is a good thing because it is the indigenous communities who are setting the pace on this file.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Chair, it is an honour for me to rise to speak to the estimates and then ask some questions about them.

I will speak for about four or five minutes. Then I will have some questions, in particular, for the Minister of Health and the President of the Treasury Board. The topics I want to bring up with them today specifically relate to health and our public service.

On health, I really want to understand where we are with vaccines in the country right now, but, most important, what we are doing to fight some of the misinformation on vaccines. Unfortunately, a lot of people are vaccine hesitant because of a lot of misinformation. We saw this start well before vaccines were even introduced and brought into the country, and were widely available. This has continued. This is misinformation does not just come from fringe groups, but also from some people who, in my opinion, we would not expect to hear that kind of rhetoric.

One of the key roles the government has to play in the fight against COVID is to inform people about the safety of the vaccines as well as how to treat a lot of that misinformation. The questions I have today for the Minister of Health, when I get to them, really focus on what we are doing about this and what recommendations have come forward from public health with respect to fighting the misinformation on vaccination.

I also want to talk specifically about the people in our public service and the incredible work they have done. Our public service has stepped up. Quite often, these people are in the background, doing the work that has been set out through the direction of the government and this Parliament on behalf of Canadians. We saw the way they stepped up at the beginning of the pandemic.

I really hope we take the opportunity to reflect back on March 2020, when there were so many unknowns out there. We did not know how the pandemic spread. We did not know what tools or resources would be needed time to fight it. However, the people in our public service went above and beyond at the time to ensure that they did everything they possibly could to support Canadians throughout the pandemic, both from the various financial programs that were put into place and made available, but also through the reassurances that the government had the backs of Canadians, that the government would be here to ensure that vaccines were available despite some of the misinformation that was spread by the other side of the House.

I think back to when the member for Calgary Nose Hill said that we would not have vaccines until 2030. I cannot imagine how that would make any Canadian feel good when a person in a position of leadership stands up and makes those kinds of comments. Back then, we were really looking for a team Canada approach, of everybody coming together to help fight this pandemic, along with the requirement and the need for everybody to work together, to have information like that.

My first question is for the Minister of Health. Could he elaborate on what we have been doing as a government to help fight and combat the false information that is out there that vaccines are not safe and that people should not be taking them?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, I visited the member's beautiful riding of Kingston and the Islands some time ago and was able to taste the beauty of the riding's landscape, its people and their hospitality.

The member is right. Canadians have been informed, but also misinformed over the crisis, informed by the incredible input of experts and scientists. Many of them were little known prior to the crisis. Now, not only do we know them, but we appreciate their work and their guidance.

Unfortunately, there has been some misinformation as well that has, as the member said, led to a lack of confidence not only in our execution, but in our ability to protect each other. This was a minor thing, however. For many months now, Canada has been at the very top of the vaccination league in the world. This has been the case for many months. We are still leading the world and showing it the way forward.

If I have time later, I might indeed come back to some statements made by our colleagues on the other side, including our colleague from Calgary Nose Hill.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, could the minister inform the House how many Canadians, in terms of percentage perhaps, have been vaccinated?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Chair, these are great percentages. Talking about everyone of all ages in Canada, approximately 80% of the population has received at least one dose and 76% of the population has received two doses, making us again a leader in the world when it comes to vaccination.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, I can only imagine that it is extremely important, as we encourage people to get vaccinated, that leadership is taken from those who are in a position to do that. When there are groups trying to promote misinformation and trying to suggest that it is against our civil liberties to encourage people to be vaccinated, such as the liberty caucus that has been formed on the other side of the House, how do those groups that aim to question science and question the validity of the health professionals contribute to the misinformation and to the overall objective of trying to get people to get vaccinated?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Madam Chair, I was not aware of the term “liberty caucus”, but I find that to be a strange caucus and a strange way of thinking about liberty. The liberty to transmit the virus to others and to infect a community is an unusual definition of liberty and I would take the liberty to signal that yes, the member for Calgary Nose Hill has a right to her views, but she did say not long ago that Canadians would be the last people on earth to be vaccinated and that it would not be before 2030.