Debates of Feb. 22nd, 2021

Industry, Science and Technology

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would ask the member what he has heard from some of the assessments and interviews he has done. If we do not have a recovery plan, what could be the worst case scenario until the tourism industry recovers? How many years or months would it take to recover?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Madam Speaker, that is a great question. I mentioned the year 2026 as the year, if we were to see things reopening in October of this year, when we might see that. Having said that, it is already going to be two full summer seasons lost for the tourism industry. That is two full years, which basically means three years for many of these places, without any revenue at all in some cases and very little revenue in others.

There is a need to show this industry that there is a plan to get vaccinations into the arms of Canadians and that there is a plan in place for recovery of this industry. Right now, we are seeing none of that from the government.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to rise to speak today. I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

It is a great pleasure to join the debate this evening and discuss the importance of the tourism industry and the associated industries of the tourism industry. There is no question that my riding of Perth—Wellington is famous for many aspects of the tourism industry. We cannot think of the City of Stratford without instantly thinking of Shakespeare and the Stratford Festival. The Stratford Festival is world renowned for Shakespearean plays, but it is also renowned for its other plays as well, including its musicals. Musicals that it has put on in the last couple years have certainly seen Canadian talent on display, which has enriched our cultural theme in Stratford and across our country.

However, the Stratford Festival is not the only arts and culture aspect of our great riding. There is also Drayton Entertainment. The Drayton Festival Theatre in the township of Mapleton is one of seven theatres now associated with Drayton Entertainment. This theatre started out as a small aspect of public life and the community has now grown to more than $60 million in economic activity for this one small theatre.

In Stratford, we have Stratford Summer Music. It was the brainchild of John Miller who saw the need to bring music to Stratford that perfectly complements the existing arts and culture aspects of the community. That is not all. We are lucky in Perth—Wellington to have countless museums that are preserving and enriching the lives of our community. The Stratford Perth Museum had an exceptional year the year before last, with so many exceptional exhibits, including an exhibit on one of Stratford's better-known sons, Justin Bieber. That exhibit was partially the brainchild of the former government House leader, the former member for York—Simcoe, Peter Van Loan, who toured the facility while he was shadow minister for Canadian Heritage and made that suggestion to the museum curator.

We also have the St. Marys Museum which has done so much to enrich the lives and preserve the heritage of Stonetown. Currently it has an exceptional program online where it is recreating old photos from the town of St. Marys with modern residents of St. Marys, which is getting a great following online.

The Palmerston Railway Museum is preserving the rich railway history and heritage of the Town of Palmerston. While the Wellington County Museum is just outside my riding in the riding of Wellington—Halton Hills, it is doing an exceptional job preserving the great history of our community.

I would be remiss if I did not mention the Fryfogel Tavern and Arboretum. The Fryfogel Tavern is the oldest surviving building in Perth County. In fact, its first resident, the one for which Fryfogel is named, was a tax collector. The reason that building never paid taxes is that he was clever enough at the time to never finish the front porch of the building; thereby the building was was never assessed for municipal taxes.

These different things are core to the rich tourism industry in Perth—Wellington. In Stratford alone, tourism accounts for nearly 13% of the workforce, and that does not take into account the related industries, whether they be the retail industry, including our downtown merchants in Stratford and across Perth—Wellington.

As the chief opposition whip mentioned, half a million people are now out of work in this industry. Imagine: half a million families are without a paycheque because of this terrible pandemic that is affecting the lives of so many Canadians. What the industry is looking for is not a silver bullet, but for a degree of predictability. They are looking for some certainty long-term. No one, and I repeat, no one wants to see borders reopened before it is safe to do so. What the industry is looking for is some acknowledgement of when and what factors are needed to allow that border to reopen.

How many Canadians need to be vaccinated before the government will reopen the borders? What key criteria is it looking for to allow that to happen? I ask because so many businesses in my riding, and I am sure in ridings across the country, are hanging by a thread right now.

I spoke to one business owner who sent me an email that said, “We are presently paying on a line of credit at a rate of 6%, and the interest is more than what we are receiving in revenue.” That is the reality of so many of these small businesses in Perth—Wellington and across the country.

One of the challenges we have seen with small businesses, especially new ones, is that they just do not qualify for the support programs that have been put in place. They are too new. They had the bad fortune of opening just prior to the pandemic or, in some cases, during the pandemic, and as such, they do not qualify.

I do want to give credit to the local Community Futures development corporations that service Perth and Wellington counties. They have gone above and beyond the call of duty to try to help the small businesses that have been left out of other government programs.

I know I may not have a lot of time left, but I want to highlight one success story I have seen recently in my riding. It is called Broken Rail Brewing and it is in the town of St. Marys, the stone town.

This was a business that really struggled but has made the best of a bad situation. It is another business that had the misfortune of opening during a pandemic, but here is the great thing: The town of St. Marys worked with the business to make it happen. I would hazard a guess that this particular brewery may be one of the few breweries in the country that is in a national historic site. It is located in the old St. Marys Junction Railway Station, which once housed the employment of one Thomas Edison, who would have been fired from his employment for nearly causing a massive rail accident in the community when he fell asleep while doing his job. The business has taken this old building and given it new life as a brewery. That is the exceptional small business entrepreneurial spirit that we need to be highlighting in our communities.

To get to the point where we can reinvigorate our tourism industry, we need certainty and support from the government. It has failed to in this regard when it comes to this pandemic. We need to know when vaccines will be in the arms of Canadians and we need to know what percentage of Canadians will be vaccinated before we can reopen the economy.

It has been an honour and a privilege to join the debate this evening. I look forward to questions from my hon. colleagues.

I want to quote another email I received from a small business owner, who said, “On March 15, I was forced to close the doors of my successful small business that I had spent nearly the last decade growing from the ground up and forced to lay off loyal employees, many whom have been with us from the start. This was without a doubt the hardest decision I have had to make, but I knew it was for the greater good to protect the safety of my community.”

That is what these small businesses are doing. They are doing what is best for the community, but it is not what is best for their bottom line. They are struggling and they are looking for that light at the end of the tunnel. For so many of these businesses, that light at the end of the tunnel is the vaccine, but we have seen the vaccine rollout bungled, botched and delayed, while we see our friends and colleagues around the world, whether in Israel, the United Kingdom or the United States, getting the vaccines far more quickly than what we are seeing here in Canada. These small businesses are disappointed, to say the least. It just gives further confirmation of the challenges they are facing going forward.

No one wants more debt, but what we continually hear from the Liberal government is more debt, more debt availability for small businesses. No one is denying that credit availability is important, but when someone has suffered through so many months of downturn, the last thing they want to do is take on more debt.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I wonder if the member can explain to me and to Canadians how the Conservative Party can justify playing the games it is playing on the floor of the House of Commons. While its members say they care about the travel and hospitality industries, they continue to drag their feet on passing Bill C-14. The bill does exactly what the industry needs in part, yet the Conservatives have refused to allow it to go to committee to date.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would point out a few points to the hon. member for Winnipeg North, who is a seasoned member of the House.

First, I would say that concurrence motions are absolutely essential to vibrant House of Commons debate. These are opportunities for members of the opposition primarily to take the floor and debate the issues that are important to the people of their ridings and the people of Canada, and the tourism and hospitality industry is absolutely essential to the livelihoods of so many Canadians. Half a million Canadians are out of work in the tourism industry because of this pandemic, so I believe, and I think my hon. colleagues on our side of the House absolutely believe, it essential that this debate occur.

I would point out as well that when the member talks about Bill C-14, 28 Liberal members have thus far debated that bill. Is the member saying that only Liberals can debate government legislation in the House of Commons and that the members of this opposition should not be in a position to debate government legislation and should simply rubber stamp the government's agenda, rather than doing our duty as parliamentarians? I think that is unfortunate.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Madam Speaker, I must say I was taken aback earlier in the day, when the member for Winnipeg North basically felt we were just stalling debate when talking about tourism. I phoned, about an hour ago, a fellow who sent me an email a year ago. He said he was of one million Canadians who had lost their jobs because of COVID and that he had been in the profession for many years and does not like having to rely on EI during this crisis. I asked how things are going.

I was wondering if the member would be able to comment on that, because the constituent said that things were really bad and that they were dire for him. He is tired of the posturing, the ignoring of the industry and thousands and thousands being swept aside. It is a cornerstone industry in Vancouver and across the country. Right now he is having to rely on part-time minimum-wage work, and he is 60 years old. It is really tough for him and for hundreds of thousands of those in the hospitality industry. I wonder if the member could comment on what I said here.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, that is the reality of what we see right now in Canada: half a million Canadians without jobs. If we could circle a date on the calendar when it was the absolute worst time for this pandemic to have hit, it would have been March 2020. Most of these industries were coming off a tough winter, which is normal for the tourism industry. They do not make money during the winter months, but they look forward to the spring and the summer, when they are able to make money once again. As the pandemic hit, we saw the economy shut down, and they lost the entire 2020 tourism season. Unfortunately, they had to rely on government programs to survive, although it was fortunate the programs were there. These business owners and the individuals who work in the industry do not want to have to rely on government; they want to rely on their own hard work, ingenuity and entrepreneurship to get back working in the economy.

Unfortunately, for so many of these small businesses, they do not see that light at the end of the tunnel. They lost the 2020 tourism season, and they fear they are going to lose the 2021 tourism season as well. I should note that I said that 28 Liberals had spoken to Bill C-14 when it is actually 22. I want to make sure that is clear for the record.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, nobody is debating the importance of the tourism sector. What I and the parliamentary secretary have brought up on a number of occasions is the fact that what we are debating right now is a concurrence motion, which we are all most likely going to vote in favour of. What the member and the Conservatives are neglecting to do is talk about a bill that would actually bring the measures to people, Bill C-14.

Why will he not talk about that? Why will he not vote on it?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that the member for Kingston and the Islands is so against the opposition having the opportunity to raise issues in the House of Commons. I will point out once again that the government does not control the agenda of the House of Commons. It belongs to all parliamentarians, and this is an opportunity for opposition members of Parliament to raise issues that are important to their ridings and to the people of Canada, including the half-million Canadians currently out of work in the tourism industry because of the devastating impact of COVID-19.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Resuming debate. I must inform the member that he has only around six minutes remaining for his speech.

The hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I could ask for the unanimous consent of the House to continue my speech, but I will not do so, because I know the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands would not agree to that.

I would like to commend my hon. colleague from Perth—Wellington who just gave a remarkable speech about how important tourism is in his region. He talked about the Stratford music festival, which is known across the country and around the world. I had the opportunity to travel to the riding of Perth—Wellington with my colleague and visit an agricultural fair. It certainly was one of the largest agricultural shows I have ever had a chance to visit.

Although it is essentially a business, that exhibition is also a tourist destination. Everyone who travels to this exhibition spends money in my colleague's riding. These visitors will travel around and explore my colleague's riding. I would like to sincerely thank my colleague for giving me the opportunity to visit his riding and, especially, for introducing me to such nice people. The tourism industry is about beautiful scenery, but it is also about people, engaged people who believe very strongly in the potential of their region and the potential of their events.

Most people do not do that for the money. Rather, they are exceptionally passionate about what they do. Unfortunately, it is this same passion that is currently making them suffer, not because they do not want to comply with the health measures or because they do not think it is important to stop their events to prevent the public from being affected by the pandemic, but because these people cannot offer their products or showcase their region, their events and their festivals to the public. That is why they are suffering.

In my riding there are events that I absolutely want to name. Obviously, some people are paid, but there are also many volunteers. For example, there is the Festival Promutuel de la relève de Thetford Mines. I represent the riding of Mégantic—L’Érable, where many of the festivals have a connection to the maple tree, l'érable in French. For example, there is the Plessisville Festival de l'érable, the Festival des Sucres in Saint-Pierre-Baptiste, the Rockfest and the Inverness Festival du Bœuf. It is our mini-stampede. That all happens back home in our neck of the woods. All these people are asking for is to be able to resume their activities as soon as possible. When will they be able to that? They can do that as soon as everyone is vaccinated.

There is no other solution. We need vaccines for everyone. The Liberal government is taking so long to supply enough vaccines to everyone that the majority of the population will not be vaccinated until September. What are the Défi de la Gosford, the Carnaval Ti-Cube, artisan festivals, summer sporting events, country and western festivals, local theatres, summer theatres, theatres like Les bâtisseurs de montagnes, fairs, beer, food and cultural festivals and the Maison du granit going to do this summer? They will not be able to do much of anything, because the majority of the population will not have been vaccinated in time. However, this could have been done. Saint-Robert en fête, the Fêtes du Lac William, the Relay For Life, fishing derbys and concerts by various artists could have happened if the government had been able to vaccinate the majority of the population.

Canada is ranked 58th in the world for vaccination rate. That is unacceptable. Some countries are vaccinating more people in one day than Canada has vaccinated since the beginning of the pandemic. That means that, unfortunately, companies like Autobus Vausco, which runs charter buses, cannot operate. This company has big, very expensive buses rusting away in garages. The owners do not know how they are going to get them back up and running, because this equipment is supposed to be kept in constant operation out on the road.

That is the problem right now. The tourism industry's problem is not that people cannot operate their businesses. Rather, it is that the reason they cannot do so is that the members on the other side of the House decided to put all their eggs in one basket by signing just one agreement with a company run by the Chinese communist regime.

Today, we have seen what is happening in China. The Minister of Foreign Affairs told the House that he was voting on behalf of the entire government, but he abstained from voting on our motion to condemn the Uighur genocide.

He of course apologized afterwards, but he was sending a message. He meant that members of the House would be voting the complete opposite, but that the government would abstain.

Thus, what members say in this place is of little importance. That is unacceptable.

However, it is easier to understand when we think of the Prime Minister's admiration for China's communist regime. We all know he appreciates the Chinese Communist Party's soft dictatorship. He expressed it publicly. It is therefore not surprising that today he is refusing to condemn the genocide.

This all began with the stubborn determination to sign an agreement with CanSino. Unfortunately, we have fallen behind. We now know that most Canadians will not be vaccinated before September, and that is in the best possible scenario, if everything that is going on and everything the Prime Minister is saying is true.

I have my doubts because, up to this point, the Prime Minister has missed many deadlines, not just on this file, but on many files.

In closing, I would like to talk about sugar shacks. Maple syrup season is coming, and sugar shacks are where people go to make maple syrup, eat eggs and pancakes, enjoy a meal and have a great time. Unfortunately, sugar shack season has been compromised.

Fortunately, the people who work in sugar shacks have pivoted and are going to offer sugar shack meals to go. I invite everyone to support them because that is what they need. We will see how the public responds, but these people have worked hard to offer people a solution. I congratulate them. I approve of and applaud this innovation.

Long live Mégantic—L'Érable, long live maple syrup, and long live springtime sugar shacks.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The question is on the motion.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I ask them to now rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, after this very healthy debate on this very important topic, I believe that if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to pass this motion unanimously.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

(Motion agreed to)

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Official Languages

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise once again to speak in the House, this time on an issue that is just as important as the maple, the tree after which the riding of Mégantic—L'Érable is named. I am talking about the French language.

Some time ago, I had the opportunity to ask a question in the House regarding the difficulties public servants were experiencing working in French at that time during the pandemic. This problem still exists today. We were somewhat hopeful at the time, because the minister had promised us, in the absence of a new Official Languages Act, a white paper before Christmas or not long after.

Finally, after five years of consultations and promises, what we got was a discussion paper. The Liberals had years to take action, but instead decided to table a document full of good intentions. We still do not have a target date for when legislation might be introduced, although it could perhaps come later this year based on what we learned today.

The Liberals will not admit it, but we know that they want to trigger an election as soon as possible, which means this discussion paper is actually a document they will use during the election campaign to make more promises on the backs of Quebeckers and especially francophone Canadians. The Liberals will be able to say that a bill will be introduced based on this discussion paper and that everything will change. Unfortunately, it cannot happen that way.

We would have expected the minister to show some responsibility toward francophones in Quebec, federal public servants and Quebec businesses that are not subject to the Charter of the French Language, Bill 101. We expected the minister to introduce a bill that we could have debated properly here in the House.

Instead, the minister once again chose to let things slide. She chose not to propose anything new to support francophone minority educational institutions that are struggling. She also failed to propose anything regarding the creation of an official languages administrative tribunal that could help minorities assert their rights more effectively, even though this was unanimously requested by stakeholders. She did not propose anything for minority groups either, nor anything to ensure that French, not English, would be recognized as the official language that is in jeopardy in Canada.

We certainly expected much more than this.

The Conservatives presented a plan to Quebec's francophones. The leader of the official opposition clearly indicated his intention to introduce a new Official Languages Act within the first 100 days of a Conservative government. This new act will facilitate faster negotiations with the Government of Quebec so that it can extend Bill 101 coverage to federally regulated businesses operating in Quebec. This act will centralize its implementation and enforcement powers under the Treasury Board, which means officials will be accountable to a central agency.

We need concrete action. We know that we must take action, and the next Conservative government will do just that. We will not just listen to the Minister of Official Languages talk and do absolutely nothing.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to reply to the important question posed by my colleague from Mégantic—L'Érable.

The government understands that our two official languages are at the heart of who we are as Canadians. Our two official languages, along with the indigenous languages, are what makes Canada such a unique place. The government believes that the time has come to take stock of the language situation in Canada, consider how the official languages have evolved over the past 50 years, and take action to address the challenges faced by the two languages.

The reforms announced Friday by the Minister of Official Languages form the cornerstone of our plans to modernize the Official Languages Act. They respond to the heartfelt pleas from communities to ensure they have a future, while adding new measures to increase bilingualism rates in Canada and protect the French language across the country, including in Quebec.

Allow me to talk about some of the reforms the minister announced that we will be implementing. We will improve access to French immersion programs across Canada, to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to learn and speak French. We will support the vitality of minority-language institutions in key sectors, such as immigration, education, culture and government. We will protect and promote the use of French across Canada, including in Quebec, by recognizing new rights with respect to language of work and service. These rights will apply to federally regulated private businesses established in Quebec and in other regions of the country where there is a strong francophone presence.

We want the public service to set an example, and we want to strengthen bilingualism within the Government of Canada through measures such as appointing bilingual judges to the Supreme Court and improving the support offered to federal public servants for learning their second language.

During a pandemic, of course, some challenges are inevitable. We have taken all necessary steps to do our due diligence. We have ensured that our official language communities have access to health information in their official language. In addition, we are emphasizing the importance of communicating with the public in the official language of their choice. We will continue to remind our colleagues of this.

This is more than a language issue. In a pandemic, it is a matter of safety. In spite of these challenges, our government understands that now is the time to act. We have an ambitious plan to protect and promote the French language and fulfill our obligations under the Official Languages Act. We are committed to modernizing the act to tackle the challenges of the 21st century and meet the needs of all Canadians.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, once again, those are fine words. However, this is a discussion paper, not a bill that parliamentarians can debate. I repeat that this is a discussion paper that may lead to a bill, but we do not know when. Is that the action the Liberals are talking about? It is not working.

My colleague listed the measures that were adopted. I will now list the things that have not worked. Over the past several months, the list of the Liberal government's failures on official languages has been growing. There was the WE Charity scandal; text alerts sent in English only in the midst of a pandemic; the report on former governor general Julie Payette that was tabled in English only, something that I spoke out about in the House, but, unfortunately, we still do not have a French version; and federal public servants who are uncomfortable speaking French at work. What is more, the minister has not implemented any of the recommendations from the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. That is the reality.

It is all well and good for the government to say that is it going to change everything, but if the government does not take any practical measures or introduce a bill, then nothing is going to change. The reality is that the Liberal government does not take French Canadians seriously.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Madam Speaker, I remind my hon. colleague of the Conservatives' legacy on official languages. They made cuts to the court challenges program and appointed unilingual anglophone judges to the Supreme Court. A Conservative colleague recently said that French was taking up too much space in her party. Before my colleague accuses us of not doing anything, I suggest that he take a look at what is going on in his own party.

We just presented an ambitious, unprecedented plan that outlines some significant measures we will take. It is now up to a committee, whose members will be appointed in the coming days, to implement the measures we presented on Friday. We want to take swift action to protect our official language communities.

During the pandemic—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. There is just one minute allowed for the response.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

The Environment

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to take the adjournment proceedings this evening to review a question and to hopefully get a better answer than the one I received back on November 30, 2020.

At that time, of course, being in calendar year 2020, the question of extreme importance and urgency was whether the government was going to fulfill a commitment that the Government of Canada made during the negotiations at COP 15 in Paris. That commitment was to improve and enhance what is called an NDC in the Paris language, a nationally determined contribution, generally referred to as a target. We committed in Paris that in calendar year 2020 we would improve our target and do so again every five years thereafter.

When I asked the minister what the plans were to improve our target in 2020, I was disappointed that he did not answer directly, but the answer is now very clear. The time has passed. We are in 2021. We have not changed our target. We have not met the commitment we made.

In conversations with people around the minister's office, it was reported to me that the department did not think that commitment was legally binding and other countries have not done it either. I find both of those responses appalling. It is a commitment that we made. It can be found in paragraph 24 of the COP 21 decision document, in which every country with a 2030 deadline for their first NDC was to improve their target in 2020. As to the idea that other countries have not done it, 69 of them have. Of course, it is only the countries that have 2030 deadlines.

Here we are in 2021 with a target that is completely out of step with all of our G7 partners and most of the industrialized world. We have one of the weakest targets in the world and the weakest of an industrialized country, except perhaps Saudi Arabia. We now have an opportunity to improve our record. I want to shift gears here to the potential for getting things right.

We are desperately close to being completely out of time in terms of carbon budgeting to avoid going above 1.5° Celsius global average temperature increase. This is in fact the target that is in the Paris Agreement, which is a legally binding document. This increase must not be exceeded, but on almost every review of where we are on the science, it is almost impossible to hold to 1.5°. There is a window on holding to our target. It will have closed, and permanently, well before 2030.

We now have the opportunity to improve our target and do our fair share, which would be at least twice what we have now committed to do, and that opportunity is coming up now because President Biden has established a climate leaders summit to take place on Earth Day, April 22, obviously, I am sure, by Zoom.

That is when Canada is really going to have to step up and say that we are prepared to reduce our emissions by 60% below 2005 levels by 2030, and set in place a first milestone year under Bill C-12 of reductions that are firm by 2025, of at least 15%. That would be the beginning of a clear commitment to the kind of action we said we would undertake when we signed the Paris Agreement.