Debates of May 26th, 2021

Finance—Main Estimates, 2021-22

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, with respect, she did not answer my question, twice.

Does the government have any plan to return to balance at any time in the future?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, as the member for Abbotsford knows very well, our budget presents a credible and sustainable plan with the debt-to-GDP ratio falling to 49.2% in fiscal year 2025-26, and the deficit falling to 1.1% in that year.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, no plan to return to balance. I will assume there is no future in Canada under a Liberal government that would lead us to a balanced budget.

In her recent budget, the minister claimed that this was a growth budget. What specific structural investments, beyond regulated day care, has the minister made to enhance productivity within our economy?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I welcome that question, because it allows me to underscore for Canadians that this budget is a significant and serious investment in long-term growth for Canada.

It is an investment in social infrastructure and, for sure, child care and early learning is an important part of that. It also invests in the green transition. It invests in housing. It invests in transit. It invests in small and medium-sized businesses and innovation.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, with respect, this is not a growth budget. In fact, numerous experts, including the minister's friend, Robert Asselin, David Dodge and the Parliamentary Budget Officer have all suggested this budget does nothing to position Canada for long-term growth.

Does the minister agree with them?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the member opposite if he agrees with his own prime minister's chosen governor of the Bank of Canada. He spoke, in his testimony to the finance committee, about the value of policies that increase investment, either directly, such as in infrastructure, such as in social infrastructure like child care, and such as in investments to vastly increase investments in carbon capture, for example, which is investment on the green line.

Does the member—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order. I am sorry to interrupt my colleague from Abbotsford, but I find I have to do this at each of the committees of the whole. I wish to remind the Chair and colleagues across the way that the time for answers has to be the same as the time for questions. I have recorded five questions and five answers, and all five answers have been considerably over the time given for the question. I would ask that you enforce this, and that members across the way recognize and respect that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order. Although it is true, I believe that the rule is that it has to be roughly the same amount of time. It does not have to be exactly the same amount of time. When a question is asked that is a second long, it might require three or four seconds to answer it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I thank hon. members for being attentive to the exchanges in the committee of the whole this evening.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order. I am hoping that this point of order will not come out of the time of my hon. colleague.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The committee of the whole has up to four hours, so there is a time limit.

On this point, the hon. member for Edmonton West is not incorrect, but neither is the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands in this case. The Chair will be attentive to trying to make the time equitable. Of course, chair occupants have to take into consideration the vagaries of making sure that exchange works in debate and from time to time, there will be slight differences. We will do our best to make sure that we adhere to that approach and I thank hon. members and the minister for their participation in this.

We will go back to the hon. member for Abbotsford.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Just to recap, Mr. Chair, I asked the minister when we would return to balanced budgets and she had no answer. I asked her about productivity investments in this budget and she could not answer that question.

I am going to ask her about the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Her government made the decision to join and make an investment in this China-led bank, the AIIB. How much of Canadian taxpayers' money has the government invested in that bank so far?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am sorry, but I am afraid I cannot allow the unsubstantiated assertions with which the member opposite began his question to stand. The fact is that this budget invests substantially in increasing Canada's long-term growth potential. It does that through significant investments in labour force participation, with early learning and child care, with the Canada workers benefit. It does it through direct investments in fiscal infrastructure, like transit and housing.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, the experts disagree with her, but I am going to ask her this question again. How much more money does the minister plan to spend on the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and how much has she spent so far?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Again, Mr. Chair, I cannot allow that unfounded assertion to stand. Let me just say I consider Stephen Poloz to be an outstanding expert and I also have a lot of time for the people at Standard & Poor's who reaffirmed Canada's AAA credit rating and put the outlook as stable.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I asked a very simple question. How much has the Liberal government spent on the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and how much does it intend to spend in the future?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do welcome that question and that is because, particularly as a former foreign minister, I absolutely believe that human rights considerations need to factor into all of Canada's decisions around the world. Let me say that, in particular, when it comes to China, I believe that for our government and, I would say, for all members of this House, the arbitrary detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor can never be far from our minds.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I did not ask a question about the two Michaels and I did not ask a question about human rights, but since she raised the issue, this China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank does not apply a rigorous environmental, human rights or gender-based lens to its investments. Is the minister aware of that?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I actually believe the member did ask a question about Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and that is because I do not think our country can take any decision about our relationship with China without considering the arbitrary detention of those two brave Canadians.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, could the minister please at least answer the simple question: How much has the Liberal government contributed to that bank so far?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do welcome this focus because, as I said, in all of our relations with China, we need to take these arbitrary detentions into account. In fact, at a meeting of the G7 finance ministers, I raised that issue and I am pleased to say there was strong support around the table.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, how much has the government paid into the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, I think it is important for us to look at all of our relationships with China through the prism of human rights and always take—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member for Abbotsford.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Respectfully, Mr. Chair, this is disgraceful. It is a simple question. We are talking about the estimates, we are talking about the budget and she cannot tell us how much money the government has paid into the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank.

Come on, Minister, please answer the question.