Debates of June 17th, 2021

Public Safety

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Speaker, on June 2, the House of Commons issued an order for unredacted documents that pertain to the transfer of viruses from the National Microbiology Lab to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in March of 2019, and the departure of two National Microbiology Lab scientists. As we know, the government is responsible for protecting certain sensitive information that may include safeguards, for example, around personal information and privacy, or information that could pertain to national security.

The government has actually tried to comply with the intent of the order while, at the same time, respecting the law that is on the books and ensuring that security-related information and privacy are, in fact, properly safeguarded. This matter was referred to the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians for its review on June 4 and the Public Health Agency of Canada has, in fact, provided to that committee the unredacted documents as was requested by Parliament.

I will take a minute to outline, on behalf of the government, how it arrived at this particular decision. I will start with a couple of words about the National Microbiology Lab. This is a lab that provides critical scientific leadership for Canada's response to COVID-19. As we speak, that laboratory is conducting more than 100 research studies on COVID-19 that range from designing and testing vaccines, to investigating treatments, to understanding the genetic fingerprint of the virus. A very important part of that lab's work is international collaboration. Throughout the pandemic, the laboratory has worked with both domestic and international partners to combat the disease.

As the government has outlined on a few occasions, the two former employees named in the order are no longer working for the Public Health Agency of Canada. As well, as was noted on multiple occasions, there is no connection between the transfer of the virus as cited in the order and the subsequent departure of these employees. There is also no link to COVID-19. Though additional information was redacted to protect privacy and for security reasons, the government wants to outline that the National Microbiology Lab continues to play a critical role in protecting the health and safety of Canadians.

The government is seeking to be open and transparent, but it is important to highlight that there is a balance to be struck to ensure that very sensitive information can, in fact, be protected. Twice the Public Health Agency appeared before the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations to respond to the questions on this matter. In addition, the agency has promptly responded to all requests for information, again while respecting its obligations under the laws that were, in fact, passed by Parliament. Sharing the relevant information is, indeed, a balancing act, one that requires us to consider various laws, duties and the public interest.

The government is and will remain committed to being as responsive as possible to parliamentarians and to Canadians.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Speaker, it would be much easier to take the parliamentary secretary at his word that the government was acting with the best intention of Canadians in mind, and not simply looking to protect its own political self-interest. We have seen illegally redacted documents provided to the health committee against orders of that committee, to the finance committee and we have seen it now to this special committee.

While the Liberals may believe that they are acting with the best interests in mind, they are contravening lawful orders of the documents that have been ordered with provisions for national security that would allow for the parliamentary law clerk, an impartial intermediary, to make those redactions and allow Canadians to have their continued confidence in public institutions.

That is what we are looking to do. That is what the opposition is looking to do, striking a balance where they can hold the government to account in a responsible way and protect the confidence of Canadians.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Speaker, there is no question that Parliament's oversight is required so the government can function at its best. The government respects the need for transparency and understands the importance of accountability, though it also understands the importance of protecting sensitive information. In this case, disclosure of the documents, without certain safeguards in place, would potentially put very sensitive information at risk for public release.

As I mentioned previously, the government has already provided the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians with all of the unredacted documents that have been requested. The committee has the statutory mechanisms and protections needed to safely review this sensitive information while maintaining the important aspect of confidentiality.

Small Business

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, average Canadian workers and owners of small and medium-sized business have been hit hard by the financial impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdowns. I have heard from many business owners who are struggling to pay their bills and keep their businesses open, and I want them to know that I will not stop advocating on their behalf. In this Parliament we worked together to provide financial supports to individuals and businesses, but these supports have not been enough. Too many Canadians are falling through the cracks.

In March the Canadian Federation of Independent Business reported that one-sixth of small businesses in Canada are at risk of permanently closing. The average small business is now $170,000 in debt.

Not everyone in Canada has been suffering financially through the pandemic. A tiny minority of ultra-wealthy citizens and large corporations have greatly increased their fortunes while so many Canadians are suffering.

Banks and their CEOs have been some of the worst pandemic profiteers. Democracy Watch reports that four of Canada's six big banks are among the 50 most profitable banks in the world. While raking in profits, several of these big banks have raised their service fees during the past year or are planning to do so this summer. TD Bank reported second-quarter net income of $3.7 billion, 147% higher than last year. Its spokesperson was quoted as saying that fee increase decisions are never made lightly and only occur after careful consideration and review. Canadians would like to know exactly what careful consideration and review big banks go through before deciding to increase their fees during a global pandemic. Is being one of the top 50 most profitable banks in the world not enough? Do they need to be in the top 20?

Credit card companies charge an average annual rate of 20% on top of annual fees and cash withdrawal fees. Businesses are charged transaction fees, known as “interchange rates”, for every credit card swipe. In Canada, the average interchange rate is 1.4%. Retail giants like Walmart can negotiate very low interchange rates, while many small businesses pay between 2.5% to 3% per transaction.

In 2018, the government struck deals with Visa and Mastercard to lower their average interchange rates from 1.5% to 1.4%, but that was hardly worth celebrating. Even before the pandemic hit, the European Union had capped interchange rates at 0.3%. The sky did not fall and credit card companies still operate and make profits. The major difference is that the burden on small and medium-sized businesses has eased. Is agreeing to interchange rates nearly five times higher than the EU the best we can do?

Low-income Canadians are often forced to use payday lenders to cover financial shortfalls or unforeseen expenses. Short-term payday loans are regulated by the provinces, and their annualized interest rates could be as high as 400% to 500%. Some payday lenders offer long-term loans and lines of credit that are federally regulated. Annualized interest rates on these types of loans are as high as 50% and legally capped at 60%. There is no justification for capping rates at 60% when interest rates are at historic lows. This is predatory lending, and the government is facilitating it. This industry preys off people in need and locks them into a cycle of endless debt.

Canadians want to know when the government will step in and protect them from gouging by big banks, credit card companies and payday lenders.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Speaker, before I begin, I want to thank my hon. colleague for raising this important question around bank fees. More broadly, I will extend my sincere appreciation for his continued feedback from the very beginning of this pandemic, which in fact has helped shape my own thinking on a number of our emergency supports.

The past 15 months have not been easy for anyone. The COVID-19 pandemic and recession have affected every Canadian in some way, in particular low-income Canadians and small businesses. We are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel now, but we have to remain vigilant and not take half measures until we know this is behind us. That is why our government is continuing to offer support programs for individuals and businesses.

Turning to the issue of bank fees, we understand how essential it is for Canadians to rely on strong consumer protection standards in their dealings with their banks. The government takes the protection of financial consumers very seriously so that we can ensure all Canadians benefit from strong consumer protection.

As we well know, the pandemic has caused financial challenges and uncertainty for Canadians in every region of the country. We understand why so many people are concerned about higher bank fees. The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada is currently conducting research to obtain a fuller picture of the impact of COVID-19 on financial consumers. In a recent survey, it found that 30% of Canadians were paying additional bank fees as a result of this pandemic.

The most common fees were overdraft fees, ATM fees, withdrawal fees, late payment fees and insufficient funds fees. Three of these examples either directly or indirectly relate to shortages of cash, which disproportionately impact lower-income people.

We have to be a little careful here. I am sure the hon. member will appreciate that financial institutions make decisions with respect to things such as the fees they charge their clients independent of the government. That does not mean there is no role for the government to play.

Over the past few years, we have introduced a number of measures aimed at improving the confidence of Canadians in their banks and in our financial consumer protection system. In budget 2018, the government introduced certain measures to strengthen consumers' rights and interests when dealing with the banks and to improve the ability of the FCAC to protect consumers.

In 2018, the government also helped to secure voluntary commitments from Visa, Mastercard and American Express that would lead to lower costs for businesses, resulting in annual savings for small and medium-sized enterprises estimated at about a quarter of a billion dollars a year.

In the most recent budget, the government committed to launching consultations on further lowering credit card transaction fees. This would help small businesses affected by interchange fees and would ensure consumers' existing reward points are protected.

We are also moving forward with a consultation to specifically lower the rate of interest in the Criminal Code of Canada applicable to, as the member suggested, payday loans offered by payday lenders. This, again, disproportionately impacts low-income folks.

As well, I will mention briefly that as a result of a recent meeting I learned of an incredible Canadian company. Borrowell will extend new choices to Canadians by providing new technology, giving them lots of choice and creating jobs here at home.

I look forward to the follow-up from my friend and colleague on the other side.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the parliamentary secretary for his words and for staying up late with me. I know it is quite a bit later on the other side of the country.

The big Canadian banks are some of the most profitable in the world, and they should not be raising fees during the pandemic when workers are having a tough time paying their bills and keeping roofs over their heads. Where is the regulation? Why is the government allowing this to happen when so many small and medium-sized Canadian businesses are facing bankruptcy?

Meyers Norris Penny reported in April that over half of Canadians were $200 away from not being able to cover their monthly expenses. That figure was 10% higher than it was in December 2020. To call this extremely alarming would be a huge understatement.

Canadians deserve better protection from excess profiteering. It is time for the government to tighten regulations on banking fees, credit card rates and interest rates charged by payday lenders. I am glad to hear that this is moving forward—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his well wishes. It is 2:10 a.m. on the east coast, but we are still going strong.

Since the very beginning of this crisis, our focus has been to do whatever it takes to help Canadian workers and businesses through these tough times. We understand that there needs to be faith that the economy is not just working, but working for everyone. We continue to have a focus on helping some of the most vulnerable and hardest-hit people and businesses in Canada.

As things reopen, we know that our support has to evolve to continue to support the recovery. The government has implemented different measures to better protect consumers, as I noted before. In the most recent budget, launching consultations on the reduction of credit card transaction fees and the reduction of the criminal rate of interest on payday loans, specifically, are important measures that speak directly to the issue that the member has raised.

We need to continue to focus not on empowering the wealthiest in Canada, but on developing supports that will allow us to recover in a way that allows the most vulnerable Canadians to see themselves in the recovery. At the end of the day, Canadians deserve to know that our government has their backs.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Bow River is not present to raise the matter for which adjournment notice has been given. Accordingly, the notice is deemed withdrawn.

Pursuant to order made on Monday, June 14, the motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until later this day at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 1:11 a.m.)