House of Commons Hansard #20 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was ukraine.

Topics

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Chair, one of the things I asked earlier, and I would like to extend the question to the member as well, is around the assurance by the Government of Canada that it will be implementing some of those key lessons in our feminist foreign policy. One of those is that we do what we can to advocate to ensure women are at all tables, that women are part of all the discussions that lead to de-escalation, because we know that when women are at the table, different decisions are made.

I just want to be very, very clear. How is the government ensuring women are there, that they are part of the solution and part of the de-escalation efforts happening in Ukraine?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Chair, we heard the Prime Minister earlier this evening address that very issue. Canada is very proud to support the initiative to make sure women form part of the training exercise. If we look at Operation Unifier, women formed part of that training. International development programs that Canada has supported and has been part of have put great emphasis on that very issue. It is quite clear where Canada stands.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, the importance of diplomacy in resolving the conflict has come up a lot in tonight's debate. Some people put it second, some put it first, but everyone has talked about it.

This crisis may have exposed certain shortcomings in Canada's ability to engage in credible diplomacy. Several ambassadors have complained in the press about the very rapid turnover in certain embassies and the loss of institutional knowledge. Is tonight's debate not the right time to say that we need to reinvest in diplomacy and set a clearer, more assertive foreign policy?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Liberal

James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, to suggest there has been a shortfall by Canada on the diplomacy front is simply wrong. Our foreign affairs minister was in Ukraine last week. Our defence minister left Ukraine hours ago. She is going to Brussels as we speak to engage in further diplomatic discussions. That is exactly the approach Canada is trying to take.

To answer the question as to what is a priority, everything is a priority to make sure that further invasion of Ukraine does not take place.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Chair, I want to wish you and all colleagues in the House a very happy New Year. I know it is the end of January, but this is my first chance to stand in the House virtually to speak and send those wishes.

I am very grateful for the opportunity to speak during this take-note debate on Ukraine and the buildup of Russian troops along the Ukrainian border. It is important for us to have this conversation and dialogue.

We live in troubling and unpredictable times. In addition to the global pandemic that the world is grappling with, what is happening at the Ukrainian border, with the accumulation and buildup of over 100,000 troops by Russia, is troubling to say the least. As a Ukrainian-Canadian, I have been following this development since its start last fall. My father's family is Ukrainian. They were and are very proud of their culture and heritage. They came to Canada as a broken family after World War II, reluctantly leaving their homeland, having no choice. They lost everything in the war. With the USSR taking over Ukraine, there was no hope for a future. They were devastated.

From a displaced persons camp and on one of the last boats to leave for North America, they came to Canada seeking peace and safety. The scars from the war and from that time remain with my family, and we are still healing from them. That is why I am so very proud of our federal government for its leadership and for stepping up to help Ukraine counter unprovoked Russian aggression.

I support Canada's strong push for peace and for a diplomatic resolution while supporting Ukraine economically and helping Ukraine to defend itself. For me, the right choice is to push hard and to explore any and every opportunity for a diplomatic resolution. Providing arms should be our last option, not our first one. I stand with Canada and with our government to defend the sovereignty, territoriality and independence of Ukraine. I fully support Canada's push for peace and for a diplomatic resolution while preparing, if we have to, to quickly step up our contribution should Russia choose armed conflict and invade Ukrainian territory.

As I am currently serving as the vice-president of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association, I am also very proud of NATO's leadership under the direction of Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. NATO has been very clear that they are encouraging and are prepared to engage in political dialogue with Russia, while also being ready to respond if Russia chooses an armed conflict.

Now let us look at how Canada is stepping up to support Ukraine. There are many ways. When our Minister of Foreign Affairs went to Ukraine over a week ago, Ukrainian President Zelensky's number one ask was for economic loans to help stabilize Ukraine's economy. Within three days, our government stepped up with a $120-million loan. The second thing Ukrainian President Zelensky asked for was help to defend Ukraine, so we urgently announced an expansion of the existing much-valued Operation Unifier at the cost of $340 million. This extension and expansion of Canada's military presence in support of Ukraine will ensure that members of the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to provide enhanced military training and mentorship to Ukraine's security forces through to the end of March 2025. Additionally, Canada is providing non-lethal aid and working with the Communications Security Establishment to enhance cyber-operations. This increased support will help Ukraine strengthen its security and ability to defend itself against a range of threats. On top of that, we are providing $50 million in development and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. In less than one week, there has been over $500 million in support for Ukraine.

Our Minister of Foreign Affairs, who has been in constant contact with our many NATO allies, has indicated that we are ready to step up even more, together with our allies, with stronger economic sanctions against Russia, should there be military incursion into Ukraine. Any action by Russia in this direction will have serious consequences. Our Minister of National Defence has said the same thing. I want to say to both ministers how grateful I am for their extraordinary leadership during these unpredictable and troubling times.

In closing, while we live in troubling and unpredictable times, I have confidence that working together with NATO and our other allies, and in keeping the channels of communication open with Russia, it is not too late to find a diplomatic and peaceful way out of the current situation.

[Member spoke in Ukrainian]

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Mr. Chair, I just have a comment for the member, whom I have known for a number of years now.

Russia's military is not the only hard power tool that it has to intimidate Europe and Ukraine. It can also use energy as a weapon. It supplies 40% of Europe's natural gas, and if it cuts off natural gas supplies to Europe, people will freeze, industries will shut down and European GDP will plummet.

The Biden administration has been talking to countries around the world about increasing natural gas supplies to Europe in the event that the Russians cut off gas to Europe, except for Canada. Canada is not mentioned in any of the reports coming back about supplying natural gas in the event that this happens, even though we are the fifth-largest natural gas producer in the world.

When will the government see that energy is not only vital to our economy, but vital to our national security and to those of Europe and Ukraine?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the hon. member for his excellent comment and question.

I do believe that we recognize the importance of energy. If the member is suggesting that we should be looking at energy as one of the ways that we might actually want to support Ukraine in the future, I think the Prime Minister, all of the ministers who have spoken today and many of my colleagues who have spoken today have indicated that every option is on the table. Anything that we can do to continue to support Ukraine, to continue to de-escalate, will be on the table and will be part of the discussions moving forward.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her intervention this evening.

In the previous intervention, there was some discussion about Canada and its efforts with regard to diplomacy and our diplomatic corps. I am not referring to ministers going for visits to Ukraine. I am referring to our diminished diplomatic corps.

Under the Conservatives, we had massive cuts to our diplomatic corps, especially when Global Affairs became something where they took away trade and development and put it all into one place. We lost a lot of our diplomacy, our ability to do diplomacy and our ability to have that role in the world, and we do not see that being built back up. We have not seen our international development and our ODA being built up. We also have not seen our peacekeeping efforts being built up.

What I want to know from the the government is this: Will it commit to doing these things, building back our peacekeeping, building back our diplomatic corps and building back our international development, so that Canada can be back and we can be better suited for future conflicts like the one we are seeing right now in Ukraine?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Chair, since we were first elected in late 2015, our government has very much put an emphasis on diplomacy and on strengthening diplomacy. Throughout this whole situation with the buildup of Russian aggression at the Ukrainian borders, we have had excellent diplomatic efforts from our Prime Minister, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of National Defence and from a number of my colleagues. That is an area that we will continue to strengthen.

One of the other things we announced is that Canada is creating a team out of Global Affairs Canada to support the further coordination of federal efforts in support of peace and security in Ukraine. We are trying to do everything we can to continue to expand our diplomatic efforts and to continue to open the lines of communication with our allies, with NATO and with anyone who wants to help find a diplomatic and peaceful solution out of the current situation we find ourselves in right now.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Winnipeg South Manitoba

Liberal

Terry Duguid LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her very passionate and informed speech.

The Minister of Tourism referred earlier to a town hall of 500 Ukrainian Canadians hosted by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We heard many of things that we are hearing tonight, of course. We heard from the ministers a theme very similar to the member's tonight, which is of Canada being flexible and resilient in its response and open to new options as the situation evolves. I think we have heard that message from our Minister of National Defence today.

Is that something that the member shares, that we should be open to new options?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Chair, I absolutely agree with the hon. member. I believe we are absolutely open to all questions we are looking for. As I said, I am an eternal optimist. I absolutely believe there is still a way for us to find a peaceful and diplomatic solution, and I think we have had the right approach here in Canada. I am proud of our leadership, and I am hopeful that we will find a solution moving forward.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Thornhill.

The Russians are ready for war with Ukraine and have the elements of 10 combined arms and tank armies surrounding Ukraine's borders. The Russians say they are normal troop deployments and that they are not looking to invade Ukraine. They said the same things in 2014 before they seized Crimea and the Donbass. With Georgia in 2008, Russia said its military buildup was a war game, and they took the northern part of the country by storm.

This time we know differently about Russian President Vladimir Putin's claims. Typically, only three Russian armies are stationed opposite Ukraine, and now we are seeing units from six other combined arms armies and the main strike force of the western military district, the 1st Guards Tank Army, move within miles of the Russian-Ukrainian border.

More Russian troops have been sent to Belarus along with fighter aircraft to both deter NATO and to threaten a northern invasion march on Kyiv. Belarus's army is on a heightened state of alert and ready to join Russia in battle. Russian forces in Transnistria have also been built up. Between five and six large Russian amphibious ships are on the way to the Black Sea with naval infantry. Smaller amphibious craft are coming by road. Russian pipeline troops have been deployed forward to establish fuel hubs for their armoured forces. The Russian navy is engaged in war games in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans and the North, Baltic and Black seas. Russia's strategic rocket forces are in war games, on a heightened state of alert and dispersed, and blood has been sent to Russian field hospitals, the last thing that happens before they become battle-ready. Blood is such a precious commodity that we use coloured water in exercises.

My husband and children are part Ukrainian. My heart is with that vulnerable democracy and its people. My heart is with the men, women and families of Canadian Armed Forces members who may be put in harm's way. The U.S., U.K. and other NATO states are ready to deploy forces to deter the Russian and Belarusian aggressors. What about Canada? In 2019 the Prime Minister announced in London Canada's contribution to NATO's high readiness force. Canada's total commitment to the NATO readiness initiative includes 12 CF-18 fighter jets, an expeditionary air task force, a maritime patrol aircraft, three frigates, a submarine, a mechanized infantry battalion, a mobile hospital and a platoon for chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear defence.

Right now in the face of unprecedented Russian aggression against Ukraine and hybrid warfare directed at Poland and the Baltic states through its proxy Belarus, we have a 550-person force in Estonia helping to train and protect that vulnerable NATO state. We have 200 trainers in Ukraine with a couple hundred more maybe on their way, and a small special forces detachment, and the minister just announced that they are moving out of harm's way west of the Dnieper River. We have one warship, HMCS Montréal, in transit to the Black Sea, and one being made ready in Halifax.

The government has watched the Russian military build up in real terms since Zapad 2021 in September. We have had months to put together a robust list of both non-lethal and lethal aid to support Ukraine. It may not be a NATO member state, but it is surely a NATO ally. At this stage we should be supplying lethal defensive aid to help this fledgling democracy stand up to the bully of central and eastern Europe in Vladimir Putin.

As well, the cyberdefensive capabilities in our Communications Security Establishment should be leveraged to help Ukraine. As well, Canadian signals intelligence could be invaluable to monitoring Russian interactions. The satellite intelligence from RADARSAT would be most helpful in tracking troop movements. The Canadian Armed Forces can provide training in a much wider range of lethal combat skills than they are doing now, and Canada should start as quickly as Ukraine can accommodate extra help. Even a maritime patrol aircraft to monitor Russian actions in the Black Sea and Baltic would be helpful at this point.

If Canadians care at all about democracy, if we care about freedom and sovereignty, we must care about it everywhere.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10 p.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Madam Chair, we have talked a lot in the House about the failure of the Liberal government to provide leadership especially for women, but for both men and women, in the armed forces, and the toll this has taken on retention and recruitment in the armed forces. We talked about the additional stress of expanding Operation Unifier, which I agree with entirely.

Could the member maybe address the additional stresses this is going to put on the men and women in our armed forces?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Chair, this is a crucial issue within our Canadian Armed Forces right now. Madam Justice Arbour is tasked with looking at further recommendations, because the earlier recommendations were not all put in place. We are looking for further insights there.

We need more personnel in the Canadian Armed Forces and retention and recruitment are huge issues, but we have serving men and women who are trained and we know that they can do even more to help train in Ukraine and in vulnerable democracies such as Ukraine. As I said, Ukraine may not be part of NATO, as least yet, but it is surely a NATO ally.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Madam Chair, one of the things the government has done over the past number of years is impose sanctions on a range of individuals and entities who have either violated human rights or contributed to violating Ukraine's sovereignty. We know that in Crimea, for example, there are tremendous human rights abuses against the Crimean Tatars by the now occupying Russian forces and administrations. There is a democracy that is being repressed, etc., so sanctions have been imposed for a number of reasons on Russian officials and entities.

I am wondering what your thoughts are about the role of sanctions going forward and, if you believe sanctions are needed, are there particular groups of folks or types of folks that you believe should be sanctioned?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

I would remind the hon. member that he is to address all questions and comments through the Chair.

The hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Chair, I believe sanctions do work and diplomacy usually works, but we are dealing with a very aggressive country that has decided that in its interests, whatever it deems them to be, Ukraine is part of them going forward. Diplomacy should always come first, and sanctions along with diplomacy absolutely are a deterrent, but offering Ukraine every support short of assistance, I suggest, is not good enough. We have to stand stronger with Ukraine and democracy.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Madam Chair, I thank my colleague for her speech. I would like to expand on the question posed by my NDP colleague, who serves with us in committee.

As we can see, cybersecurity is very important, especially with respect to enemies such as Russia.

Does my colleague share my opinion that it is important to have better cybersecurity for ourselves and so that it can be better shared with our allies when the need arises?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Chair, I absolutely agree that it is essential. You may have noticed that the Russians shut down a lot of Ukraine's cyber abilities before stepping up even further with aggression. This is part of modern warfare: It is something that goes on all the time with aggressor states, and we need to do more to be alive to it, monitor it and prevent it.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

I would remind the hon. member as well that when she is answering questions, she is to address them to the Chair and not directly to members.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Thornhill.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Madam Chair, I want to thank the hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock for her views on the debate.

With that, I am pleased to rise in the House to speak to a matter that I know Canadians are watching. It is not only those who have Ukrainian roots, but all those who believe in moral clarity and a principled approach to our country's foreign policy and our place in the world, and Canadians like me who have pieced together a first-hand history from the family dinner table of stories from the past that make today's threats so clear and obvious.

If there was ever an instance where Canada, where the Prime Minister and where the foreign affairs minister had the opportunity to do the right thing, it was last week. The government could have lent its support to Ukraine against Russian aggression by providing Ukraine with the lethal defensive weapons it needs, but Canada did not.

The governments of the U.S., the U.K., Poland, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia and others have already provided that support. Some have leaned on our past refusal to arm Ukraine as an excuse not to do it today. However, the difference now is that almost nine years have passed since Putin's continued occupation began and his constant escalation of aggression. Of course, we have all of our NATO allies.

We now know the situation has changed rapidly in the last week, so it becomes very difficult to understand why Canada has not joined our allies. In fact, the government has recognized this themselves by operational changes we heard about yesterday.

It is important for the House to understand the history of our relationship and the history that many members of the House will remember first-hand, because it was not that long ago that Canada was unafraid of principles and was Ukraine's most vocal ally in the G7. Today that is a not-so-distant in memory, but it will be replaced in our history that we are an observer to an imminent threat that we know to be true.

We have two clear options: We treat Ukraine as the allies that they are, as defenders of democracy and freedom who we would lend our full military support to on the path to European integration, or we excuse ourselves from the conversation to appease Putin's violence and walk away.

I know the answer was once clear. Our past action on this issue unfortunately does not seem like the right indicator for our future action. In the past, Canada's actions included targeted sanctions against Kremlin supporters, political and economic support to Kyiv's government, the redeployment of military assets as part of NATO's reassurance package in eastern Europe and the contribution of observers to Ukraine's election.

Today, they need more, and our action would have been clear. The steadfast support of our former prime minister was clear. He spoke directly and unambiguously about his views on Putin's occupation and the destabilizing force that Russia is in the world today.

It is important to understand the context of Russia's aggression and the very nature of its renegade ruler. He is a dangerous dictator uninterested in looking forward, but malevolently looks backward to the eventual expansion of a Russian empire. He is a violent aggressor to which diplomacy has always been answered with hostility.

Further to the obvious truth, which I think the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance understands better than almost anybody in this place, there was a valiant effort on the part of two American presidents to try to make Putin a constructive partner with some version of diplomacy, but here is the problem: He does not want to be.

The response from the government is a truly curious one. First, a loan that might suggest there was more hope of bringing back the special relationship that we once had, followed by an announcement of an extended training mission that would have been extended anyway. They are now on the brink of war without the equipment needed.

Over the course of the debate, we have heard about Canada's unwavering support, but as some of my colleagues have stated, I invite the government to go beyond the words of support.

We have two very clear options for how we respond. We can immediately provide lethal defensive weapons to Ukraine, restore RADARSAT imaging and use the Magnitsky sanctions against those responsible for Russia's aggression against the Ukraine, or we can stand idly by. I believe the government truly understands the threat, but I do not believe they act as though they do. Maybe it is time.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Madam Chair, it was interesting to hear the member speak about former Prime Minister Stephen Harper. The member said that he spoke unambiguously. I do not disagree; I think he spoke unambiguously. I think the current Prime Minister has spoken unambiguously. I think our Minister of Foreign Affairs has spoken unambiguously.

One of the things that our Prime Minister has done, preceding my time in office but during my time in office as well, is that he has also acted unambiguously: unambiguously imposing sanctions, unambiguously extending and expanding the training mission, unambiguously providing additional foreign aid, unambiguously moving those trainers into eastern Ukraine where they were not originally, unambiguously helping Ukraine to reform so that it could be stronger and therefore better withstand the Russian invasion, and unambiguously signing a free trade agreement.

When Stephen Harper was prime minister, he refused to send those lethal weapons that are now being asked for. My question is, why?

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Madam Chair, I know that the member for Etobicoke Centre is an advocate for the community and I know that table would be better off for having his advocacy there because I know that he does not agree with the actions that the government has taken. I know that he believes that the government can do more.

I do want to address one of the things that the member said, which is Canada's not arming Ukraine in 2014. He is probably referring to that. It is because Ukraine did not ask and it is because a lot of things have changed in almost nine years. That is the reason.

There was an ask and there is a need, and things have become quite dangerous. I know this member knows that and I know this member would believe that and I know this member would advocate if he had a seat at the table.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

January 31st, 2022 / 10:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Chair, I travelled to Kyiv months after Russia's invasion into Crimea and I met seriously injured soldiers being treated by Canadian surgeons assisting Ukrainian doctors. I met with officials there, and since then in Canada, through meetings arranged by Ambassador Shevchenko. They all asked repeatedly that our government reinstate our radar satellite systems that could have made a significant impact in improving their realization of what Russia was up to back then, and even now what Ukrainians are facing because of a lack of that oversight. I would like the member to speak to the fact that our government truly failed them in that moment.

Situation in UkraineGovernment Orders

10:15 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

Madam Chair, I would like to speak about it a bit more.

There are a number of issues that have changed on the ground since the time the hon. member visited and the last time that we truly had a debate in this House about the situation in Ukraine. There are a lot of things that we can still do and there are a lot of things that the Ukrainians have asked for that Canada has not provided. There is an opportunity for the government to do the right thing and provide those three things that I spoke about in my remarks. Believe me, on this side of the House we would absolutely welcome that, and I would be the first to applaud the government if it did the right thing.