Debates of Jan. 31st, 2022

Situation in Ukraine

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I take issue with a certain characterization he made that the Government of Canada has been delaying. The fact that I was able to list about five different actions we have taken in a 14-day span is the antithesis of delay. We have taken direct action.

Most notably, the issue of providing assistance to defend Ukraine is a live one. It is one where all options are on the table. That is my first point. My second point is that we have to consider what Canada has been able to do thus far. Since Operation Unifier was launched, we have provided training to no less than 33,000 Ukrainian soldiers. That is an unbelievable number. It is a significant impact for a middle power in terms of providing security and assistance in the sovereignty and defence of Ukraine.

I have been there myself to observe those troops during the celebration for independence on the Maidan in 2018. I have seen what Canadians are doing. I have seen what Ukrainian Canadian soldiers are doing on the ground. It is needed, it is wanted and it is respected. That is more of the type of contribution we need to see.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, we heard members from the governing party mention several times that the crucial thing, the thing that matters most in this case, is diplomacy and deterrence.

Many have criticized the government's diplomatic efforts, saying that it was focusing a bit too much on soft power in circumstances that did not call for it. The actions taken may also be causing some confusion. The Ukrainians are complaining that we are not responding to their request for weapons and that we are responding too late, while Russia is accusing Canada of being too alarmist by recalling its diplomatic corps.

I have a simple question. Can my colleague suggest what could have been done better in terms of diplomacy, since that is what is at the heart of this issue for the government?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is a good question. To be honest, from a diplomatic point of view, western allies need a more unified approach. For one thing, we have not talked about the Nord Stream 2 pipeline during this evening's debate.

Germany is reliant upon Nord Stream 2 as a source of energy. This is causing some division among western nations. We know the European Parliament, areas of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are against Nord Stream 2. If that kind of project goes ahead, it poses some instability within the western alliance. It is that kind of diplomacy we need to unify the western alliance so that we can approach projects like Nord Stream 2 in a unified manner and approach combatting Russian aggression in a unified manner.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have quite a strong community in London from the diaspora, the Ukrainian folks there. Daria, the president of the London chapter of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, brought her concerns directly to me.

Considering the member has such a diverse community, I would like to hear some of the concerns he is hearing directly from his community members as to what is ultimately going on and the government's response to it.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, what I am hearing from constituents in my community is the anxiety, fear and concerns about action and wanting as much action as possible as quickly as possible. I am hearing from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. The president of the congress lives in my riding.

What I am also hearing is that, when people misconstrue what is actually being provided and misconstrue the situation among the Ukrainian armed forces, it does not help matters much.

I am going to return to a comment raised earlier about the member for Winnipeg South and the very volatile comments she made, which unfortunately still exist on Twitter as I speak. Yes, an apology has been made by the leader of the NDP, but the fact that those tweets from the member for Winnipeg South remain on the record is not constructive to the conversation or to the support of Ukraine.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.

I want to make sure I correct the member for Parkdale—High Park, who just spoke. It was the member for Winnipeg Centre who made that tweet, not the member for Winnipeg South. It was a colleague of his, and I know it would be unfair to him to associate him with those ridiculous and hurtful comments by the member for Winnipeg Centre.

I know that all of us here, first and foremost, stand in unity with Ukraine, and I know that we all stand here to denounce the aggressive escalation of actions taken by Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation. We all know that Putin is provoked by weakness. That is why it is so important that we all come together and stand in unison to denounce how the Russian Federation has tried to force NATO's hand, is using Ukraine as a bargaining chip in all of this and is prepared to again invade Ukrainian sovereign territory, on top of the illegally occupied lands that they are on in Donbass and Crimea, territories which we, especially those of us on the Conservative benches, will always see as Ukrainian sovereign lands. I would never acknowledge that they are Russian, even though they have their forces holding the citizens in Crimea and Donbass at gunpoint.

Vladimir Putin has played this game before. It is coincidental that it always seems to happen around the time of the winter Olympics, whether it was the invasion of Crimea after the Sochi Olympics and before that in Georgia and South Ossetia. It seems the Olympics are the trigger for Vladimir Putin to invade a neighbour. Ukraine has done nothing but try to get along with the Russian bear to the north. It has definitely wanted to see more integration with the European Union, with NATO and its western allies.

Those of us who are of Ukrainian heritage are proud of our Ukrainian heritage, and we have always stood up for Ukraine. Luckily, I am an elected member, as many members here are, and I can stand and denounce Vladimir Putin and his kleptocrats in the Kremlin for the disgusting display they are putting on right now, with over 140,000 troops positioned along Ukraine's border. They have troops in Belarus, they have troops across northern Ukraine, right around Kharkiv, down through the Donbass and Rostov-on-Don. Their navy is sailing on the Sea of Asov and of course on the Black Sea, with 30,000 troops in Crimea today. All of that is just sabre-rattling, but we could see a greater escalation.

As a Conservative and a Ukrainian, I am proud that, as was very well articulated by the Leader of the Opposition, it was Conservative governments that recognized Ukraine sovereignty back in 1991. It was a Canadian government under Stephen Harper that started Operation Unifier, that provided the first defensive weapons for Ukraine, that worked with it on reform and trying to de-escalate the situation, because we understood that a strong Ukraine would be a deterrent to an invading Russia. NATO gets that, and that is why NATO has always kept the door open to have an open-door policy with Ukraine as a potential member. Russia is coming forward now with ridiculous demands about trying to increase its sphere of security, trying to get NATO to withdraw troops from neighbouring nations that are already NATO members and saying that Ukraine can never get there.

We know that we have to do more. We have to use Magnitsky sanctions and other economic sanctions to deter Russia now, not after it invades. We know Ukraine wants lethal weapons. The former ambassador of Ukraine to Canada, Andriy Shevchenko, also said it needs to have lethal weapons. We need to restore the RADARSAT images that the Liberals cancelled in 2016. We thank the Liberals for what they did in expanding Operation Unifier. It is something we have been calling for since 2019 and 2021, but there is more that needs to be done. The half measures that have been taken so far by the Liberal government have not deterred Vladimir Putin. All they have done is appease him.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman for his intervention. He certainly knows a great deal about this topic, and I have always respected everything he has had to say. I have learned a lot from him on this file.

We used to sit on the defence committee together. At least I used to be there. I imagine he still is. We had the opportunity to travel to Ukraine a number of years ago. One of the things I felt so inspired by as a Canadian was the stories we heard when we were there. I remember the member and I sitting among other people when the chair of the defence committee of the Ukraine told us that other countries were coming to support Ukraine because Canada was there. Canada played an incredible leadership role in mobilizing and encouraging other countries to get involved and be part of that presence in Ukraine.

Can the member share his thoughts on how Canada's role goes beyond, at times, just monetary and other asset resources?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Chair, that was a great trip to go over there and see how our military was working with and training the Ukrainian armed forces and Ukrainian national guard.

I want to thank all those members of the Canadian Armed Forces who, over the past eight years, have been going back and forth to Ukraine and working with them. By training Ukrainian troops, we have not only made them better soldiers, but we have also helped save lives.

We know that more of that has to be done, but that is why we started calling, back in 2018, for a long-term expansion and extension of Operation Unifier. Conservatives have also been calling for, since 2018, us to provide lethal defensive weapons because Ukraine has asked for them. Our other allies have provided them. Why is Canada not doing the same?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would also like to thank the member for his comments. I have worked with him in the Canada-Ukraine Friendship Group. He is extremely knowledgeable on this topic, and I have also learned a great deal from him.

Earlier in the year, we were on a television interview together and he brought something up that has been sitting with me for a very long time. As I listen to Conservatives talk about how we need to escalate, have lethal weapons and amp up this war talk, my thoughts go back to when he said the Conservative government would concede not one inch. How did that work out in 2014? That was the government of the Conservatives, and it gave more than an inch.

Why does he think that a Conservative government, which was not able to prevent the invasion of Ukraine in 2014, would be able to prevent the invasion with the exact same rhetoric in 2022?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Chair, our rhetoric needs to be strong. It is one thing that Vladimir Putin understands. There is only one person that is talking about war in Ukraine and that is Vladimir Putin.

However, what we are talking about, what the Ukrainian-Canadian community is talking about, and what the people of Ukraine are asking for is the ability to defend themselves. They are prepared to do the street fighting if Russian soldiers march over the border again to try to grab more Ukraine territory. We want to make sure they have the ability to do to protect their homeland, their families and their communities.

In not providing those lethal defensive weapons, and in only providing empty rhetoric, we have failed them. It is time for us to stand up, do the right thing and stand with our friends, families and allies in Ukraine.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have the opportunity to work with the member closely. I have been on the defence committee with him, but also on the Canada-Ukraine Friendship Group.

I was a little surprised at one moment during his speech when he talked about how the Conservative government sent lethal weapons to Ukraine. The Conservative government did not send lethal weapons to Ukraine. I do think it is interesting that he spoke to that here and is advocating for that here, suggesting that it has been done in the past, but it has not been done in the past. In 2014, the world did not do enough.

As someone who has been on the defence committee and knows the armed forces so well, could he speak to the importance of training the Ukrainian armed forces and the impact that is having for the Ukrainian armed forces as it defends itself against the Russian invasion.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Chair, I said we should provide defensive weapons. Just to be clear on it, Canada actually approved export permits for a Canadian company selling sniper rifles to Ukraine and we helped facilitate that so that the Ukraine army could actually come here and buy high-quality Canadian sniper rifles to defend their territory. We made sure that those approvals and permits were put in place. We cannot even get that from the government today.

Therefore, I say this: Let us get off our duffs and let us do the right thing. Let us step up before Putin marches across the border, and provide the people of Ukraine with all the tools, whether they are sanctions or weapons, whether it is intelligence or financing, but give them all the tools so they can defend their own territory.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, as the Conservative member of Parliament for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, I am proud to recognize the contributions that Canadians with Ukrainian heritage have made to Canada, including former governor general Ramon Hnatyshyn and the Hon. Michael Starr, the first Canadian cabinet minister of Ukrainian descent. He was a member of the government of the Right Honourable John Diefenbaker who gave Canadians the Bill of Rights.

It bears repeating that Canada enjoys a special relationship with Ukraine. Almost 1.4 million Canadians can claim membership in the Ukrainian diaspora, the largest outside Ukraine and Russia. It is ironic that this debate is taking place while average Canadians have started a popular movement, the “Freedom Convoy”, to gain back freedoms Canadians enjoyed prior to the Liberal Party lockdown mandate.

It is ironic because the roots of the current crisis in Ukraine date back several years to the popular uprising that took place in Ukraine's capital of Kiev. The Ukrainian revolution of the Maidan was the outpouring of people longing for freedom, democracy, the rule of law and the dream of a better future, which is the same thing our truckers want for all Canadians.

Canadians cheered the Orange Revolution and cheered again the revolution of the Maidan. Canada was the first western nation to recognize Ukraine's independence after the fall of the Soviet Union. Ukraine's citizens look to the west to realize their dreams. They are still looking for Canada.

At first, the revolution of the Maidan was met with brutal violence and aggression. The pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovych used the same kind of language to describe Ukrainian protesters as Canadians are hearing from the Prime Minister and certain members of his ruling clique to describe the Freedom Convoy. This eventually led the pro-Russian oligarch Viktor Yanukovych, who had been president of Ukraine, to abdicate, going into hiding and fleeing the country.

It was during this time of turmoil and chaos that Russian President Vladimir Putin seized the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea. Next came the taking of the eastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. Historians make the reference to the events that preceded World War II and the seizing of territories from adjacent countries by Nazi Germany using the same excuses as the Russian President is using to seize Ukrainian territory.

Compounding today's crisis, America suffers from a domestically unpopular President whose policies have divided America. Power abhors a vacuum. There is no shortage of nations that are ready to exploit American weakness, such as China and Russia. That leads to the situation the world finds itself in today. Since 2014 and the Russian seizure of Crimea, almost 14,000 people have lost their lives. Many children have been maimed by land mines. There are a million and a half displaced persons.

Now is the time for diplomacy and diplomatic language. Lives are in the balance. What was the Prime Minister thinking when he signalled the state broadcaster, CBC, to float a wacky Russian conspiracy theory? Was he trying to discredit the Canadian freedom protesters with his clumsy attempt at disinformation? It failed.

Once again, the Prime Minister is the object of scorn and derision, not just among Canadians but around the world. All the world is watching Canadians and the protest outside. So far, the Russian media have been content to ridicule the leader of the Liberal Party. The people of Ukraine do not need the Prime Minister saying or doing something foolish. We know from the experience of World War I how quickly a seemingly minor, unrelated action can trigger a chain of events too horrible to think of.

There is no denying that we live in disturbingly anxious and contentious times. Apocalyptic assertions of climate change by the environment minister and ignorant tirades, public shaming tactics, and crude weapons of moral accusation by the Prime Minister have increasingly taken the place of rational discourse.

Even before the shamefulness of the Afghanistan debacle, there has been a disgust with the self-serving incompetence of the current government and its lack of a coherent foreign policy. The time for half measures has long past. Ukraine needs Canada's support. The Prime Minister and his deputy have let Ukraine down.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Mr. Chair, I had a very hard time following the logic there, and I am sure if we had given the member another five minutes, maybe we would have had this connected back to Area 51 and aliens. The member was in Ukraine with me about three years ago when we were on the defence committee together, and she heard the chair of the defence committee in Ukraine talk about the incredible contribution that Canada makes to Operation Unifier and Operation Reassurance.

Can she somehow justify for me why she has such a different view of things from the realities of what we heard together when we were there?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, I recall that when we first decided to do Operation Reassurance and Operation Unifier, people were very happy. In fact, we were even instrumental in setting up the centre of excellence, StratCom, in Latvia for the misinformation that was being perpetuated by the Russians. However, I am afraid to say that the member opposite's memory is not quite that great. Although I would have loved to be in Ukraine with the defence committee, at that time I was unable to. I was with him there in spirit, and I hope to be there one day in the future, when Ukraine is enjoying peace throughout the land.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Mr. Chair, I want to start off by saying that I feel like I am back in university. I spent a number of years at King's College, University of London, in England studying war studies. The history of Ukraine, the history of Russia and the geopolitics involved make for a very long history. We have to recognize the Ukrainian people and their sacrifice during World War II to liberate us from potential Nazi oppression. Over eight million people sacrificed their lives. They were sacrificed by a nation, Russia, that did not really care for them.

I am afraid that the narrative has been taken away and put on Russia, and it is trying to defend itself. A nation does not defend itself by expanding its borders and using another nation as a pawn. Would my colleague agree with that?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his service in the Canadian military and his academics on the subject.

Yes, I do agree with him. I have nothing but courage, and I look to the actions of the Ukrainian people and their indomitable spirit as they go ahead to create a land and live in a land that is free.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was listening intently to the member's remarks, and I think a lot of members during this debate have spoken about the need to deter Russia's further invasion of Ukraine. I am wondering if the member could speak to the steps that she believes Canada and the international community need to take to deter the further invasion of Ukraine.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, we could continue showing our support and training the troops there. One of the things we could do is provide them with RADARSAT imagery so they can see more clearly what is forming in front of them and then protect themselves more fully.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am just following up on my question. One thing that has changed so much for the Ukrainian military since 2014 is its capability, and much of that capability has been developed through the support of its partner countries, such as Canada through Operation Unifier, the United States, the U.K. and others that have training missions.

I wonder if the member could speak to whether she believes this aspect has been important in helping the Ukrainians strengthen their position in defence of their country and whether this is an important aspect of deterrence as well.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, the Ukrainian people are facing a military on land, sea and air. On land alone there are upwards of 130,000 troops. Their numbers are far smaller.

I am confident that what we have done in the past is helping them greatly, but 2014 came as a total surprise. In fact, I was at a NATO meeting at that time and they were all enjoying the peace dividend. That was a warning. During the night, little green men came across the border and everybody was shocked. Now we should not be shocked when it happens, if it happens. We still pray that calmer minds will prevail. However, we are with the people, no matter what.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Minister of International Development and Minister responsible for the Pacific Economic Development Agency of Canada]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the hon. Minister of Tourism.

It is essential that we continue to support Ukraine in the days ahead and that we remember that we are not only supporting a nation; we are supporting its people. These are people who are living with the uncertainty of a potential invasion, who continue to struggle to build their democracy in the shadow of Russian threats and who continue to be affected by the humanitarian impact of the ongoing conflict in eastern Europe.

Canada has been a consistent supporter of the humanitarian response in Ukraine since 2014. Our humanitarian assistance provides support to the people most affected by this crisis, including those in non-government-controlled areas where restrictions have separated the population from the rest of Ukraine, many of whom are underemployed or elderly and find themselves cut off from social services such as health care and their pensions.

Through our experienced humanitarian partners, including United Nations agencies and the International Committee of the Red Cross, Canada has sought to address the basic needs of the Ukrainian people, to protect civilians living near the contact line and to respond to increased needs due to COVID-19. Since 2014, Canada has provided over $49.5 million in humanitarian assistance funding to the Ukrainian people, making us the fourth-largest single-country donor of humanitarian assistance funding to Ukraine.

This funding is having a real impact on the ground. In 2020 we helped support 69 health centres, provided water and shelter assistance to over 1.4 million people, increased food consumption for over 220,000 people and boosted food production for over 32,000 people. We are prepared to do more. Last week, our government announced that we will provide $15 million in new humanitarian assistance to support humanitarian partners to respond with the flexibility that Ukraine requires.

Our assistance will focus on priorities that matter to the people on the ground, ensuring people's access to basic services such as health, water, sanitation, shelter and food security. The increased assistance will also strengthen protection, including for the almost one million individuals who remain internally displaced. We will provide advocacy and support for freedom of movement for the families that remain separated by the contact line, who in many cases are unable to even communicate with family members cut off from them because of the conflict.

Our support for the immediate humanitarian needs of those affected by the conflict in Ukraine is complementary to other long-term development and security support that is also supporting Ukraine's resilience in the face of a continued escalation of Russian aggression. Since 2014, in addition to our support of humanitarian assistance, Canada has provided over $250 million in bilateral development assistance to support Ukraine to advance democracy, the rule of law, gender equality, the empowerment of women and girls, and sustainable economic growth. Through this development assistance, we have supported rural women entrepreneurs to improve their agricultural production and business financial management, generating economic opportunities for the most vulnerable people living in rural conflict-affected areas.

We have fostered a vibrant and diverse civil society landscape in Ukraine that can play a vital role in building functioning democracies, upholding the rule of law and access to justice, and promoting and protecting human rights. We have ensured that women's voices are heard by helping local women's organizations and networks to promote women's rights and their advancement.

Now, in the face of this aggression, Canada is increasing development assistance by up to an additional $35 million. This support will fund strategic peace and security initiatives that respond to the evolving needs on the ground. These initiatives will work to strengthen community resilience and mitigate the drivers and impacts of instability. Our increased development assistance will help improve the crisis management and emergency response capacity in Ukraine. It will also allow some of our departmental partners on the ground to scale up programming to help Ukraine respond to the evolving needs of its citizens and ensure it has the capacity to continue to deliver services and provide help to people if the situation deteriorates even further. It will also enhance our support to civil society, including independent media and human rights activists.

Our development aid does not exist in isolation, but is part of a consolidated Canadian effort to help the government in Ukraine build its economic capacity. Our offer of a sovereign loan of up to $120 million, announced on January 21, will also help the Ukrainian government reinforce its economic resilience.

It remains Canada's hope that the situation in Ukraine does not deteriorate, but this depends on Russia. We will continue to seek a diplomatic resolution. With our allies and partners, we will continue to call on Russia to de-escalate and engage in a meaningful dialogue in good faith. We will do so not only because it is in the best interests of the people of Ukraine, but also because it is the only viable path forward for Russia. Whatever comes, Canada will stand alongside the people of Ukraine. Our humanitarian development support will be there to help them meet their daily needs and to help them as they fight for an independent future.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the minister for taking part in this debate and explaining Canada's humanitarian help to Ukrainians.

I talked about civic institutions and how important it is build them in Ukraine, and one of things the minister mentioned is media. We know that there is a large disinformation campaign being run by the Kremlin through different outlets, and closer to home we have one of these outfits operating right here in Canada, which is called “Russia Today”. It is a 24-hour, pro-Putin, pro-Kremlin, pro whatever the Russian government thinks it wants to spew into our airways, and it gets carrier rights. While we are also helping overseas to try to limit the damage that these disinformation campaigns can cause to sap the morale and strength of civic society to resist in these types of situations, I wonder if the minister would agree that Russia Today does not belong on Canadian airways either.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have been concerned about Russia's cyberwarfare tactics and the methods it has been using when it comes to misinformation. The cyber-attacks that occur, especially the disinformation that comes within Canada, are why we have also offered up support from our Communications Security Establishment to provide cyber-support in these cases.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the minister for his intervention this evening and for providing some clarity for us on Canada's intentions with regard to international development. However, I would be remiss if I did not raise the fact that right now Canada is giving a very low amount of overseas development assistance. We are at 0.31% of GNI, which is much lower than we should be at, and much lower than the government has repeatedly promised to get to.

While what we are seeing in Ukraine right now is a very urgent need, I think what we can be very clear on is that there is going to be more conflict around the world. The best way we can deal with conflict is to prevent it from happening, and international development plays a key role in that.

Will the minister commit on behalf of the Government of Canada to increasing our overseas development assistance to be able to fully implement the feminist international assistance policy?