Debates of Oct. 20th, 2022

Opposition Motion—Tax Exemption on Home Heating Fuel

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

It is time for questions and comments. The hon. member for North Okanagan—Shuswap has the floor.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, I continue to be amazed by the hypocrisy of the Liberal government. It baffles me why Liberals can claim they will be paying Canadians back more than they are paying in carbon tax. If that were the case, and the government would be giving them back more than it is costing them, why would Canadians change their habits? It simply makes no sense. It is obvious to me that this is not a plan to reduce emissions. This is simply a tax-and-spend plan, a shell game, from the Liberal government.

Could the member opposite please confirm that this plan is only meant to distract from the fact that the Liberal government has failed to meet any emissions targets in the seven years it has been in government, and that it is really just a shell game for a tax plan?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, ironically, members might be somewhat surprised to know that the principle of a price on pollution actually originated in the province of Alberta. Go figure. Other provinces then picked up on that and started to duplicate it or come up with different forms of it. It is only the national Conservative Party of Canada that is moving backward on this issue, and I do not quite understand why when more and more people are looking for leadership on the environment.

The report said that eight out of 10 people would benefit. The member does not have to believe me. The independent Parliamentary Budget Officer made the statement that eight of 10 people will see a net benefit from the money being paid in and the money being paid out. That is a good thing, and it is why I think the Conservatives—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Drummond.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Speaker, earlier, my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean was lucky enough to get two opportunities to ask my Conservative colleague a very insightful question about the huge profits being made by oil and gas companies.

I myself asked the member for Toronto—Danforth the same question earlier. Like my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean, I would like to know if my colleague from Winnipeg North acknowledges and opposes the obscene profits being made by oil and gas companies. If so, what does his government plan to do to balance them out and rectify the situation?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, from day one, the Prime Minister has made it very clear that he expects everyone to pay their fair share of taxes. That is one of the reasons why one of our very first budgetary measures was to increase the tax bracket for Canada's wealthiest 1%. That is something we have taken immediate action on.

With respect to what the member just referred to, in the last budget we heard the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance indicate that we are putting a special tax on banks and insurance companies because of the pandemic profits. We are very open to looking at ways that we can, as the Prime Minister has dictated, ensure we move toward a fairer taxation system.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Winnipeg North and I share a border. We represent ridings with some of the most severe human rights issues in the country, including his riding, which has the highest number of kids are in care in the whole country. Many families are living in poverty.

Although I know he has given a lot of good news announcements, one thing the Liberal government has failed to do is force CEOs of big oil and gas to pay their fair share. They could be paying for things such as programs that could do more to help people make energy-efficient renovations to not only fight against climate change, but also cut down on their monthly bills. This is critical in our ridings.

I heard another of his colleagues today talk about 2050. Families need help now. Is his government willing to go after big CEOs to get them to pay their fair share right now?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, I would like to pick up on the member's comments regarding children. She makes reference to our ridings, and there are so many children who need that extra attention. That is why I felt so good when we increased and changed the Canada child benefit program. It lifted literally hundreds, if not thousands, of children out of poverty. These are children who are represented by both of us. We need to continue to work hard at making sure—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), NDP, Carol Hughes]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Miramichi—Grand Lake has the floor.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my hon. colleague from Hastings—Lennox and Addington, also known as H, L and A. The member is also known as the daughter of the former member for that riding. His name is Daryl, and he is at home watching, so it is a family business here.

Today, I am pleased to rise to support this motion from my colleague from Calgary Forest Lawn, which would see the House lend its agreement to the comments by the Liberal premier of Newfoundland and Labrador calling on the federal government to exempt all forms of heating fuel from the Liberal carbon tax for all Canadians.

Indeed, all four premiers of the Atlantic provinces have written to the Prime Minister urging him to stop punishing Atlantic Canadians with this punitive tax upon a tax this winter season, especially as they have already faced the highest inflation rates, Liberal just inflation rates, that they have seen in decades.

It is the highest inflation since the Prime Minister's father bungled the failed national energy program in the 1980s. Let us take a walk back in time. It is worth resting on this point for a moment. There is an eerie parallel between the failed initiative of the Prime Minister's father with the national energy program, and where we find ourselves today.

We have record inflation, a looming economic recession, western alienation and a government so blind, so out of touch and so reckless, that it truly believes it knows better than Canadians on how to spend their own money. As serious and as concerning as this type of arrogance is, there is hope.

The failed national energy program of the senior Trudeau set the stage for the election of the strong, stable Conservative majority government of Brian Mulroney. The government's mismanagement of the economy and its zealous punishment of its own citizens who work in the oil and gas sector, as well as those who rely on this sector to heat their homes, is creating the perfect storm, which will see Canadians choose another strong and responsible Conservative majority government. This time, it will be led by my hon. colleague from Carleton, our honourable leader.

My constituency of Miramichi—Grand Lake is the largest federal electoral district in New Brunswick. At 17,420 kilometres, it is more than double the average size of other districts in my home province. It is actually three times larger than the entirety of Prince Edward Island.

My constituency is rural. It is extremely rural, and it is vast. I believe that the Prime Minister has probably read some short books about life beyond the limits of the major Canadian cities. I would imagine they were cartoons. I am sure he believes he understands the plight of everyday Canadians and their families from the CBC News, which blindly endorses and reaffirms the misguided decisions of the government as a regular part of its editorial control.

Let me tell the Prime Minister and all the members of his government that my constituents and Atlantic Canadians, by and large, will quite rightly rely on oil to heat their homes this winter, and they want and need the government to understand that fact. They want and need the government to put people before politics and remove the Liberal carbon tax from heating fuel, which has already nearly doubled in price in the past two to three years.

In rural New Brunswick and across Atlantic Canada, Canadians have few choices when it comes to heating their homes. Many, if not most, use oil as the primary source to keep their homes and families warm. Natural gas is not an option. As we have seen with the devastation of the electrical infrastructure across the Atlantic provinces after tropical storm Fiona, even electricity is not always reliable.

It is one thing to lose electricity for days, or even weeks, in September or October. However, if this happens during a Canadian winter, between November and March, homes will freeze, plumbing will fail and homes will get destroyed. In many cases, oil is the only safe and reliable option to keep one's home and family warm through the Canadian winter in rural Atlantic Canada. I know that the government and the Prime Minister at least value the homes of Atlantic Canadians.

I wonder, if the Prime Minister had his way, whether he would still have Atlantic Canadians locked in their homes, for their own safety of course. Perhaps he might consider chipping in with the Atlantic Canadians on their share of his carbon tax to help offset the cost of keeping these home detention centres warm this coming season, just in case he needs them one more time. It is frustrating for me to stand in this House, time and time again, and explain the realities of rural life to the government.

I understand that, as members of the House, we all represent different constituencies and geographies, none being more important than the other, but there is a reality to Canadian life. Our country is large and vast, and a great many Canadians live in rural settings. They understand what choices work for them and their families, and they do not need the Liberal government taxing them in a punishing sequence for choosing the only available option that is safe and can be relied upon. Canadians are better to choose for themselves.

The Liberal government has made enough decisions for people who did not want them to begin with. The government has mismanaged the economy in such a way that the price of heating oil has already more than doubled on its watch. Other necessities, like food and certainly the cost of building or maintaining homes with repairs, has at least doubled. The punishment of Liberal inflation never ends for Canadians, but their pain is the government's gain. For every item or service in our economy that is subject to the federal portion of the HST and has doubled in price, the government is now collecting double the tax on these items than it would have only a year or two ago.

To be fair, to any normal responsible government, this additional tax revenue would be a windfall and help to allow a budget to balance itself, as the Prime Minister likes to say, but I understand the government has a severe spending problem. Even this doubling in revenue is not nearly enough for them. They have, in fact, caused inflation. Much of these high percentages we have are caused by the government's inability to have monetary policy and manage the books of this country.

I revert to the fact that the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, a Liberal friend of the government, has publicly called on the Prime Minister to exempt home heating oil from the Liberal carbon tax. This is not Ottawa Liberals whispering to themselves that it is time for the Prime Minister to move on. I can understand why the Prime Minister, with no serious job prospects of his own on the horizon, would ignore these Liberals, but a sitting and popular Liberal premier in Atlantic Canada, in Newfoundland and Labrador, speaking about it aloud in the news is a whole different story.

I implore the Prime Minister, even if he does not listen to the Ottawa Liberals urging him to walk the plank, to at least listen to this one Liberal who has the courage of his convictions to try to explain these bread and butter issues to the federal government, which is so very out of touch. Premier Andrew Furey from Newfoundland and Labrador has made the decision to have the courage of his convictions, and we applaud him for that.

I proudly support this motion to remove the Liberal carbon tax on home heating fuels. This is what my constituents have told me to do, and now I have relayed their concerns to the House. The tax grab by the Liberal government will increase heating costs by over 20% for working Canadians, and as the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador has rightly said, it will create “undue economic burdens” on Canadians who do not have the resources to cope with this burden.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, we have heard, time after time, Conservatives come forward and talk about inflation as though it is a specific problem only to Canada. They say that Liberals and the Canadian government created this inflationary problem, but the reality is that just about every developed country in the world followed a similar pattern with their monetary policy in order to support their populations during the global pandemic. If that Conservative member is saying that inflation is strictly a Canadian problem and that monetary policy in Canada is what led to inflation, he is essentially saying the same thing for every developed country in the world.

Is the Conservative Party basically saying that it is against the western world?

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Madam Speaker, it is an absolute pleasure to answer this question, because while Vladimir Putin threatens to turn the energy supply off to our western allies and while he funds his war machine on Ukraine, the government here does not think we should develop our oil and gas, when we might distribute that oil and gas to our allies so they would not have to rely on Putin. I am going to take that question and say that I think the Government of Canada has turned its back on western Europe completely when it comes to energy.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Speaker, when I invest in something, usually it is to try to renovate my home, so it lasts longer. I want added value. I want to see a return. In the case of my home, the return is that it lasts longer.

For the last 50 years, we have made massive investments in oil and gas companies and oil and gas development without seeing a percentage of the profits, other than what is received through taxes. This is without any commitment from the companies to clean up.

Now, we have companies making billions of dollars in profit. These are profits like they have never seen before. Would it not be much better for the entire population if the oil companies, which make money on the backs of workers, consumers and the government—which invests heavily in the industry—were taxed on their profits?

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Madam Speaker, just the other day I was speaking to my sons who are in high school and they were learning about climate change in school. Obviously, we want our children to be able to learn everything that is happening in the world and all the issues. What I noticed was not getting relayed was what has driven the Canadian economy for eternity, which is natural resources and the revenue that has come from that.

I do not disagree with my hon. colleague from the Bloc party who thinks that when there are record profits companies should be paying their fair share. I can agree with that statement. However, the New Democrats and the Liberals in this House love companies like Amazon and ArriveCAN. They love to buy new deep freezers for Loblaws when it has had record profits. They love to pay between $12 million and $20 million for new deep freezers for one of the richest companies.

The member's question is a good one. It would have been probably better directed at the NDP or the Liberals, but I will gladly answer it.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Madam Speaker, that is hogwash. The NDP has actually been wanting Amazon and the big corporations to pay their fair share.

While people cannot afford to pay their home heating costs, which is the debate we are having today, the IMF is saying it is actually runaway corporate greed and CEOs who are making record profits in oil and gas, the banking sector and the grocery stores. To help interpret for my Conservative colleague, it is the triple greed that has taken hold of this country. I am calling on the Conservatives to stop being the gatekeepers for big oil and big corporations. Will they today tackle the triple greed?

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Madam Speaker, why is the NDP supporting the Liberal government, which supported $28 million to a Liberal donor's company? Now they have a $54-million ArriveCAN app that could have been made on a weekend for a quarter of a million by most tech companies. They jumped right into—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We have to resume debate.

The hon. member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise to speak to our Conservative opposition day motion.

As we already know, record inflation is driving up the cost of everyday necessities. Meat is up nearly 8%. Dairy is up nearly 10%. Vegetables, fruit and baked goods are all up over 10%, with cereals up nearly 18%. Gas prices are 13% higher than they were at this same time last year. Our dollar is simply not going as far as it was before, and home heating is no different.

Canadians have been burdened with paying these increased prices in tandem with their creeping increases. We buy groceries and gas every week and do so year-round, but heating is different. Heating costs, for most Canadians, is a seasonal expense. It is not something that most Canadians are paying at this point. As we head into the winter months that is going to change. With heating costs so high, thanks to the government, this Christmas will mark the very first time in history that Canadians are actually hoping for lumps of coal in their stockings.

Rural and low-income Canadians are going to be hit the hardest. According to the Financial Accountability Office of Ontario, the average amount spent on home energy in a year in urban centres in Ontario is $2,002. In rural Ontario, that number explodes to $3,198, a shocking increase of 62.6%. The report also breaks down the types of fuel used between electric, natural gas and other sources. When accounting for this, rural communities spend 57 times more on other sources of fuel. That is the difference between urban and rural Canada when it comes to energy expenditures in our homes.

We have all heard about the dramatic impacts that are being caused by the energy shortages around the world, inflation and the war in Ukraine, but I want to bring this closer to home. Most of us here in this place have the privilege of walking into a room, flicking a switch and the lights go on. If the room is cold, we walk over to a thermostat and turn it to a comfortable temperature. Unfortunately, that is not the case for too many of our constituents. Even in my riding of Hastings—Lennox and Addington, natural gas is the exception, not the rule. Most rural residents outside of small towns and villages heat with propane. Some are still using fuel oil, and a number, which would probably surprise colleagues, still use wood stoves as either primary or secondary heat sources.

Earlier today, the member for Kings—Hants took issue with the wording of our motion, specifically the portion stating that for some Canadians there are no alternatives to propane or heating oil. He suggested that Canadians simply convert their homes to other sources. He may not speak to his constituents, but those who struggle through the winter need to be listened to. I am listening to the people of Hastings—Lennox and Addington. Would it surprise colleagues that there are communities in my riding that operate winter wood banks? It is like a food bank, but it provides dried, split wood to seniors and other shut-ins who otherwise cannot cut and split wood for themselves and might run out if the heating season lasts too long or is harsher than normal.

My riding is not unique. Many ridings across Canada do not have the privilege of natural gas heating. Many homes across Canada have not been able to take advantage of electric heat pumps, because their climate is too cold or electricity has been too expensive. Propane is widely used and so is heating oil. This is why we keep asking the government to stop adding more and more taxes to these fuels. It is not that Canadians do not want to do their part. It is about treating one's fellow Canadians with respect instead of driving them into energy poverty.

The cost of living is the single biggest issue in my riding of Hastings—Lennox and Addington. Constituents regularly call into my office, post on my social media or contact me directly with their concerns. For example, one wrote, “Last March I paid over $800 for half a tank of furnace oil. Last month it was $527 to top it up. I don't see how I'll be able to pay for basic home expenses.” Another said, “I paid over 400/month using budget billing (equal payments each month) equalling almost $5000 a year. Many people in rural environments that don't have the option to live in new homes AND for many people that are transitioning from oil to more efficient heating like propane, the cost is between 10 and $12,000.”

To be clear, it is not just individuals who are being hurt by these increases; it is businesses as well. Last week, I received a text from one local business owner, who said, “Rural areas are getting gouged. [The] price of propane is out of control. I record every purchase I get, so I compare what It would have cost last year to what it will cost this year.” I would continue, but frustration with heating costs led this person to some very explosive language that would be considered unparliamentary in this place.

For those watching at home who may not be familiar with the nuts and bolts of what is actually happening today, allow me to briefly explain.

There is a tradition in Parliament that maintains that government cannot submit its expenditures until the opposition has an opportunity to demonstrate why it should not be allowed to. As such, certain days are allotted to the opposition parties to decide what the topic of debate will be. This is commonly referred to as an opposition day. On these special days, the motion put forward by an opposition party gets precedence over other government business, which means we debate that motion on the day regardless of what else is on the docket. This is what we are doing here today. This is what we are doing right now. Our Conservative opposition chose to ask the government to exempt heating from the carbon tax.

Previously, we used one of our opposition day motions to ask the government to lower gas prices by 5% via a reduction to GST/HST. Unfortunately, that did not pass. I hope this opposition day motion will be different.

Yesterday, in this place, the Prime Minister responded to a question from my colleague chastising the Conservatives for standing in the way of a payment. He said, “Mr. Speaker, this supposed preoccupation of the Conservatives with the cost of living would be slightly more believable if not for the fact they are standing in the way of delivering $500 in extra support to low-income renters between now and Christmas”. Today we have an opportunity to do better than a one-time cheque. We have an opportunity to provide sustained relief over the dark, cold, lonely winter months for millions of Canadians who are struggling by making their already inflated heating bill exempt from the carbon tax.

Minority Parliaments can do the right thing. Sometimes, but not often, we do see eye to eye and do the right thing for Canadians. We saw that earlier this week when the House voted in favour of the NDP's opposition day motion to lower food prices. I was comfortable voting in favour of that motion because I knew it would help struggling Canadians.

This motion would help struggling Canadians with home heating prices, and I hope this House has the good sense to pass it.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am assuming the member opposite was at the Conservative convention back in March 2021 when the party itself voted against admitting that climate change was real, so I want to ask a very simple question of the member. Does the member believe that climate change is real?

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Madam Speaker, there are actually constituents resorting to heating with a wood stove because a cord of wood is cheaper than a tank of propane. Which does the member think is worse for the environment? The issue is the cost of heating.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have a simple question for my colleague.

We have heard about the record profits made by oil and gas companies several times today. There are different ways of looking at a problem. Would she not agree to implementing a special tax on the huge profits and having the money redistributed to people who need it to deal with inflation? Would she agree, for example, to increasing old age security for people aged 65 and older? I know I am being annoying with this question, but I never get an answer.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am trying to decipher the purpose of this question. Is it for the hon. member to make a point or to actually make a difference? I speak to my constituents, and this costly coalition is digging into the pocketbooks of Canadians. What our motion today is here to do is help provide relief for Canadians.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Madam Speaker, I have certainly enjoyed working with my hon. colleague on the status of women committee to get good things done for women and gender-diverse individuals across Canada. However, we differ on where the problem is.

We know that big oil and gas is making record profits and we know that is where the problem is. The Conservative government consistently failed to make big corporations and big companies pay their fair share, including the CEOs of big oil and gas, who are reaping the benefits while people are struggling across the country.

I wonder if she agrees with me that it is fine time that big oil companies pay their fair share and that we take that money and invest it to make things easier for people across the country.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Madam Speaker, the people in Hastings—Lennox and Addington are extremely overwhelmed with high prices and have been forced to cut back and spend less. So should the government. Fuel and food prices are soaring, and the purpose of today's motion is to get us to speak to heating in Canadian homes. That is what I am here to do today.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I take in good faith that today's motion is actually about the affordability of day-to-day life. As others have said in this set of questions, if we are going to be honest about that, we need to look at the record-breaking profits that oil and gas companies are making. If we look at the price of gas, for example, the carbon tax contributes two cents a litre whereas the wholesale margins mean net new profits are 18¢. That is nine times as much. Is this not of concern to the member?