Debates of Nov. 1st, 2022

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance Audit

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the esteemed member of Parliament for Kings—Hants, which is in the beautiful province of Nova Scotia.

To appreciate the need and benefits of ArriveCAN, it is important to understand the context of where we started. At the onset of the pandemic, monitoring health measures at the border was a paper-based process.

In early 2020, the government implemented, through orders in council, strong border measures to slow the introduction and transmission of COVID-19 into Canada. We went from a few thousand travellers requiring additional health measures at the border per year, really per day, to millions of travellers being tested. The existing system was not operationally sustainable for the magnitude of COVID-19.

I would like to add that the measures that we introduced and the measures the provinces introduced were meant to protect Canadians, meant to protect their health and safety. This was the number one and most important priority for any government in Canada, but was also meant to allow for the building of capacity within our health care system.

When we think about asking people to wear masks, asking people to physically distance, asking people to stay home, and asking owners of restaurants who invested their lives and sweat into building their businesses to shut down, it was not done haphazardly. It was done with the intention of making sure that Canadians were kept safe and sound during the pandemic. It was the right thing to do. With that, it was the right thing to do to introduce the ArriveCAN app.

To implement the emergency orders, we collected contact information from travellers. This was initially done in paper form. Information was shared with provinces and territories to identify travellers quarantining in their jurisdictions. It was also exchanged with local law enforcement to inform them in their day-to-day operations and was used to contact travellers to verify their compliance with quarantine requirements.

Before ArriveCAN was launched, it was a cumbersome process at the border. Further exacerbating the process was the need to collect forms using biohazard protocols, as this was the period when there was suspicion that the virus could live on paper.

In the early days, shipping paper forms across the country, digitizing and inputting information into existing systems could take upwards of 14 days. It is within this context that ArriveCAN was created in the spring of 2020 as a joint initiative between the Public Health Agency of Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency.

Without ArriveCAN, border services officers would have needed to ask each traveller health questions and review their documents. By using the app, travellers saved approximately five minutes each time they crossed the border. The app was downloaded more than 18 million times, and allowed more than 16 million travellers to expedite their border crossing.

Now that vaccine mandates and other health requirements have been removed, the advance CBSA declaration feature of the app can be used voluntarily to make customs and immigration declarations in advance. This continues to save travellers time at participating airports.

I do hope to see this form of advance CBSA declaration in an app be used for all travellers entering Canada, specifically Canadian citizens, to expedite their process through airports, such as Pearson airport. I use Pearson airport on a regular basis as do many of my colleagues, as I see them there on Sunday evenings or Monday mornings.

The budget allocated for ArriveCAN is $54 million by March 31, 2023. The budget breakdown can be found on the CBSA website.

As the science evolved, so too did our technology. Initially, ArriveCAN was simply a digitized version of the paper traveller contact information form that travellers were completing upon arrival to Canada.

Collecting information remotely prior to a traveller’s arrival minimized the number of questions that the border services officer had to ask each traveller. This speeded up processing times and also limited the exposure of officers to each traveller, protecting the public safety of individuals working for CBSA and various partner agencies

In a public health crisis, time and information are critical. With the paper forms, we had actionable information on day five to eight of a traveller’s quarantine. With ArriveCAN, we accelerated that to useful data within 48 hours.

The decision to make an ArriveCAN submission mandatory for all air travellers in November 2020 and all land travellers in February 2021 further facilitated PHAC’s ability to administer border measures, with the goal of mitigating the importation and spread of COVID-19, again to protect the public health and safety of Canadians.

As border measures evolved quickly to respond to the omicron variant, so did ArriveCAN. Travel history data was used to identify recent arrivals from countries of concern. PHAC was subsequently able to contact those travellers individually by email and phone, ask them to test and place them in necessary quarantine. This response would have been impossible without the ArriveCAN app.

Like at other points in history, the need to take timely action drove innovation. The COVID-19 pandemic necessitated the development of a more efficient process to manage large volumes of health data. The purpose and value of ArriveCAN to manage public health measures at the border cannot be understated. Again, it was to protect the safety and health of Canadians.

ArriveCAN is a tool that evolved with the pandemic, adopting changes with each new order in council. It improved the quality of the scientific data PHAC collected, which supported decision-making based on science and allowed the crucial exchange of information with provinces and territories. Without ArriveCAN, Canada’s ability to administer the border measures put in place to protect public health would have been significantly reduced. We needed a more streamlined digital approach to manage, track and protect our borders during the largest health care crisis we have faced in nearly a century and have seen in our lifetime, and that was the ArriveCAN app.

It is important to understand that ArriveCAN is not a just an information-sharing app. It is a secure, transactional app and web tool that used the internationally recognized SMART health card standard to verify proof of vaccination. ArriveCAN improved data quality and enhanced our ability to verify compliance rates under the Quarantine Act.

The budget includes far more than the creation and launch of the app itself. The cost to develop and launch the original version of the app in April 2020 was approximately $80,000. To ensure Canada’s COVID-19 response remained effective, the Government of Canada made regular adjustments to border measures, informed by scientific evidence, available data and international travel patterns. Support for these adjustments required 70 updates and upgrades to ArriveCAN. Each of these had to be developed and tested prior to launch to ensure the app was up to date and secure.

To that end, the total budget for ArriveCAN also includes all the necessary work to operate, maintain and upgrade the app over the last two years. It also covers the work done by Service Canada employees at the call centre, who answered over 645,000 calls and helped travellers during the pandemic. Again, the app, much like all the measures that were brought in during COVID-19 and that are ongoing, was meant to protect the public health and safety of Canadians.

Given the urgency of the pandemic, the app needed to be developed as quickly as possible. The CBSA had to use several professional services contracts for the development and maintenance of ArriveCAN based on their expertise. All contracts and payments were made in accordance with the Government of Canada’s policies and directives. This included safeguards to ensure the private information of Canadians using the app was protected, which was fundamental.

In conclusion, as Canada continues to recover from the pandemic, the CBSA will continue to work hard to make technology available at the border to help speed up travel and enhance the safety and security of Canadians. I hope to see the ArriveCAN app and iterations thereof used in CBSA pre-clearance for travellers coming through airports in Canada, particularly Canadian citizens, to speed up the process of clearing customs and immigration via CBSA.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a two-part question for the member opposite.

The first part is about the fairness of the app. There are many Canadians in my riding, such as seniors, who do not have Internet, email or access to the app. More importantly, I have an Amish community, which does not use phones, does not have Internet, does not drive and does not vote. They are now facing a quarter of a million dollars in fines as a community. Does the member think that is fair, or is it discriminatory against those Canadians?

As to the second part, he talked about the efficiency of the app, why it cost $54 million and its effectiveness. The Ottawa bureau chief of The Globe and Mail said the day before yesterday that when he was going through customs, where there were huge lineups, he asked about the ArriveCAN app and the long lineups. The border officer laughed and said the app is irrelevant so he should not bother using it. Does the member have anything to say about that?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound for his concerns with regard to the usage of the ArriveCAN app.

We want to make sure that the experience of all Canadians using the ArriveCAN app is efficient, quick and smooth. Obviously, there are travellers who need assistance, and assistance was available for travellers requiring it, if they needed it.

I have elderly parents. They travelled during the time when COVID-19 was here and when the app was in use, and we did assist them with that. It was very efficient and smooth for them, including for my 87-year-old father, who had the app on his smart phone and utilized it. It was a good experience.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I enjoy watching my Liberal colleagues trying to defend the ArriveCAN app today. I do not know if my colleagues travelled a little during the time that this app was in effect and saw how seniors in particular grappled with this complicated app or how border services agents tried to help people. What a waste of time. That said, I agree that some measures had to be implemented. I am not disputing that.

I would like to ask my colleague a question. Are the people who developed the ArriveCAN app at a cost of $54 million part of the same group who were awarded contracts for Roxham Road and who are part of the Liberal Party's entourage? I just want to know if there is a relationship between these two groups.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to attempt to answer the question by the hon. member for Drummond. My interpretation may not have been working. I am not sure if it is just mine or that of other colleagues. I did not get the interpretation, but I think I understood the question.

With regard to the cost of the app, which many members have asked about, we can look at the full cost and operation of the app over the two years, with the many upgrades, the service call centre, the adjustments that were made, the number of professionals involved, the storage of data and so forth. Obviously, given the measure that was introduced, we cannot look at the microcosm of just the app itself.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there have been a bunch of very concerning irregularities around the ArriveCAN app. I think most Canadians were pretty shocked at the overall dollar amount for development and maintenance, which was $54 million. When the CBSA produced a list of contractors involved, there were companies on there that claimed they did not do any work on the app and were quite surprised.

To my friend across the way, do these irregularities, in his mind, not warrant an audit to get to the bottom of how much money this cost, who got the money, what the procurement process looked like and whether it was appropriate? Does he not agree that is appropriate?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, look, having transparency and accountability in how every level of government is spending money is imperative for taxpayers, including the taxpayers in my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge.

I know that all of the processes and procedures were followed by the Government of Canada in the procurement process for the app. If members would like to go to the CBSA website, there is a breakdown of how the monies were spent with regard to the ArriveCAN app, and, for that matter, with regard to all of the measures that were put in place during COVID-19, which was an extraordinary period of time in our country and the world's history.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, as always, it is great to see all my hon. colleagues here in the House.

I want to begin by taking a few moments to reflect on the past two years, which have been very difficult for all Canadians and for countries around the world. We fought COVID‑19 and we won, but I would like to remind all my colleagues and all Canadians of the enormous uncertainty that existed on March 12, 2020. I remember that day very clearly. I was back in my riding, and the Prime Minister stood behind his podium and announced that COVID‑19, a novel virus, had arrived in Canada.

We did not know a whole lot about the virus, and when we look at the last two years, we see the uncertainty that it presented but also the work we did collectively in an international sense. The government worked to help provide and procure vaccines that would be available for Canadians. We made sure they were protected against the novel virus, and the fact that we are able to gather again in this chamber two years later is quite remarkable. It has been a challenging time.

I think it is important to compare our response to that of other countries, like the United States, our neighbour to the south. The number of people who have died from COVID‑19 there is about 10 times higher than in Canada.

Let us think about that. I believe roughly 60,000 Canadians died as a result of COVID-19. Of course, we still have COVID-19 here in this country. We are in a much better place, but it still exists.

When we talk about the way the government responded, I will take our response 10 times over. Let us think about that. It is not just about statistics; it is about people's lives. There would have been 600,000 deaths in this country had we followed the way of the United States. When we look at the way the government helped support individuals and businesses, which were being asked to take on health measures and protocols to stop the spread of COVID-19, there has been tremendous spending over the past two years.

Regarding inflation, because the text of the motion today talks about some of the affordability challenges that Canadians are seeing, I will reiterate what I said before in the House: It is a nuanced issue. Part of it is a result of the dislocated supply chains we have seen, which are still working their way back from COVID-19 and from the disruption we have seen. Some of it has been because of major weather events around the world, including right here in Canada. I will name three of them.

Mr. Speaker, you are from Nova Scotia and we all watched hurricane Fiona with concern and the way it impacted our communities in Atlantic Canada, particularly in Cape Breton, Prince Edward Island and western Newfoundland. We can think about the droughts that we were seeing in the prairie provinces last year during harvest season, and the atmospheric rivers that impacted British Columbia. Those are three examples just in our own country where there was massive disruption and an impact on critical infrastructure that, of course, then impacted the supply chain. That is part of the reason we are seeing some of the inflation.

There is also the war in Ukraine. We have talked about this at great length. The war continues, and it is causing supply chain issues because there has been difficulty in being able to move critical grains to international markets. Let me go on the record and say that I have deep concern about Russia's newest proclamation that it is not going to recognize the international accord to continue to move grain from the ports of Odessa in the Black Sea. That has had an impact on energy security and is also driving prices higher.

We also need to think about the demographic situation. In western countries, populations on average are getting older. I do not know if it has been tabled yet today, but I believe that at some point this week the Minister of Immigration is going to table a levels report. I hope this government will be ambitious in drawing new Canadians to our communities, because this is extremely important for the replenishment of our communities and for us to have the necessary workforce.

With respect to the workforce, there were almost one million unfilled jobs in the last quarter of 2021. There are market shortages in labour, and that is driving wage costs higher, which is then having a continuing nuanced effect.

The last cause is the pent-up demand that individuals have. Maybe some of us in the House and Canadians at home want to travel during the winter months and have the opportunity to go away. That was not available previously, so there is a lot of pent-up disposable income. That is also driving some of the inflationary pressure we are seeing right now.

We need to be clear. The next 18 to 24 months are going to be difficult. The Minister of Finance has alluded to that. Certainly the projections, whether they be from the Bank of Canada or some of our private financial institutions, are talking about the prospect of a recession.

Let me speak to interest rates. It is important that we as members of Parliament respect the independence of the Bank of Canada. Certainly the member for Carleton did not do that during his leadership campaign, but it is important that we do so. I want to highlight the fact that the Bank of Canada's interest rates are going to play an important role here, but we are still going to see some stickiness with inflation, in part because of the things I just mentioned. Whether it is the war in Ukraine or the decoupling of supply chains from places like China and Russia, those things are going to keep prices a bit higher. We need to be mindful of that and set an expectation for Canadians in the days ahead.

I expect that the fall economic update, which will be presented by the Minister of Finance on Thursday, will propose some prudent fiscal measures. Indeed, given the current situation, the government needs to maintain some financial strength in order to address the issue of affordability for all Canadians.

I respect the fact that this government has walked a line in responding and trying to be proportional to the challenges we are seeing. It is not necessarily the best fiscal policy for the government to spend a lot of money when the Bank of Canada, on its monetary side, is trying to bring down interest rates. With credit to the Minister of Finance, we will see what happens on Thursday, but I expect hopefully that will be the case.

Let me say three things that I think are going to be extremely important for us as parliamentarians to encourage and for this government to take up in the days ahead in relation to what we are seeing.

The first is regulatory reform. I talk about this often. There are things we need to be able to do that do not cost money, but that can help drive economic growth and improve public service delivery, whether those are policy changes or legislative changes. As the chair of the agriculture committee, I hear often about little things that this government can do and what we can do as parliamentarians to help drive that innovation and investment that do not require government spending. That is going to have to be an important part in the days ahead.

I spoke a lot about Ukraine. Let us look at the way it delivers digital government. It has been tremendous. It uses what is called the Diia app. It has the ability to access its government records online using an app. It is transforming the way in which it is providing government services. I think we need to have the same conversation in Canada about how we can drive that forward, how we can find efficiencies in the public sector and how we can drive innovation to better public service delivery for Canadians, and also look at efficiencies on the fiscal side of the ledger.

The final thing I will say in the 45 seconds that I have left is with respect to interprovincial trade. I have heard the radio commercials in my home province about premiers asking for more health care funding. That is a conversation that we know will happen between the Minister of Health, the Minister of Finance, the Prime Minister and the premiers, but at the same time, the premiers need to be part of the solution with respect to finding the money to support long-term sustainable health care.

One way is to reduce and eliminate interprovincial trade barriers. It is easier right now for wine producers in our region of the Annapolis Valley to send their products to France than it is to Ontario. We are in the 21st century. Why is that still the case? A Senate report suggested that 2% to 4% of GDP can be achieved if we actually focus on that. Premiers need to be part of the solution. If we are going to bring money to the table, they need to do that, along with their own health care.

I am going to finish there. I look forward to questions from my colleagues.

Committee to Examine Documents Related to National Microbiology Lab

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, a memorandum of understanding, signed by the House leaders of all recognized parties in the House of Commons, to create an ad hoc committee of parliamentarians to examine documents from the Public Health Agency of Canada relating to the National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg.

Canadians deserve to see MPs working in collaboration on important issues that require a responsible approach to transparency and accountability. I want to thank my fellow House leaders and colleagues for their work and support in this important process.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance Audit

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talked about everything but ArriveCAN. We are here today to talk about why the government wasted $54 million on this application.

In my riding of Sarnia—Lambton, Canadians were refused entry into Canada. It was not because they were not vaccinated, but because they did not have ArriveCAN filled out. They were told they were going to be charged $6,200 each, and this was after the World Health Organization had already said that we should be eliminating these border measures and the mandates. It was a violation of their charter rights.

Would the member admit that the Liberals violated the charter rights of Canadians?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, no, I will not admit that, nor do I think this government has violated any charter rights.

I know the member opposite was appointed the shadow minister of civil liberties, I believe, by the member for Carleton. Let me say this, as she did make reference to the World Health Organization. It was the work we did internationally, along with the provinces and territories, to respond to the pandemic that made sure there were vaccines in place and there were measures there. I already mentioned there were 60,000 Canadians who died as a result of COVID–19. This was a serious virus. We responded in the manner that it had to be done. I would not take the approach of the United States, where 10 times the number of deaths happened.

We stand by our record. We stand by the way we responded to a very nuanced situation and the fact that we can stand here two years later confidently with Canadians protected, the majority of whom have been vaccinated.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I am surprised to hear him brag about the economy, when in the cases of ArriveCAN and Roxham Road there seem to be some questionable contracts to look at, to say the least. He talked about the economic statement. While the government is giving money to companies, the minister is already telling Canadians that they will have to tighten their belts. It is a double standard for businesses and individuals.

After the pandemic, there are systems where people need help. There is the issue of health transfers that we put in as a condition for the economic statement, help for seniors 65 to 74 who are once again being ignored by the government, as well as the whole issue of employment insurance. I think that despite the tough times that are coming, it is definitely not the time to be making cuts in these areas.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of elements to my colleague's question, but as for health transfers, I agree with the proposal to help the provinces and the territories and to work with them. In the meantime, Mr. Legault and all the premiers across Canada need to work on reducing interprovincial trade barriers and increasing GDP in Canada with sustainable programs and funding. Transferring money for health without an economic plan, without ensuring that the funds are sustainable, is problematic.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of my concerns with today's motion is the first line, which asserts, “the cost of government is driving up the cost of living”. This runs counter to a recent paper from the University of Calgary. It was found that in Canada, since the second quarter of 2021, three-quarters of inflation has been driven not by government spending but by supply-side challenges, for example by disruptions in food crops internationally.

Can the member for Kings—Hants comment further on this?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is what I was getting at in my speech. I used a portion of my speech not even to necessarily address the provisions in the text, because I find it a bit ludicrous that it has been brought forward.

Let me speak to the member's question. When we look at inflation, it is nuanced. It is not necessarily as a result of government spending, but it is because of a lot of external factors that are happening around the world: the war in Ukraine, climate change and demographics.

That is an important observation the member has made, and I agree with him.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time today with the hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

It is always an honour to rise in the House of Commons to represent my constituents of Peterborough—Kawartha. Today we have put forth an opposition motion. For those who are watching at home or starting to get interested in politics, opposition motions are so important. Every day the Liberals get to decide what is important, and we know that they are not choosing what is really important to Canadians.

With an opposition motion, the Conservatives can use our voices to speak for Canadians. I will read our opposition motion that we put forth today. We will have a vote after this, and we are asking the Liberals, NDP and Bloc to support us on this motion to pass it. The motion says:

That, given that,

(i) the cost of government is driving up the cost of living,

(ii) the Parliamentary Budget Officer states that 40% of new spending is not related to COVID-19,

(iii) Canadians are now paying higher prices and higher interest rates as a result,

(iv) it is more important than ever for the government to respect taxpayer dollars and eliminate wasteful spending,

the House call on the Auditor General of Canada to conduct a performance audit, including the payments, contracts and sub-contracts for all aspects of the ArriveCAN app, and to prioritize this investigation.

This is a very important motion. Today in the House, I heard members from the Liberal side of the House say the motion is too broad and it deals too much with the cost of living.

When the Liberal government in charge is responsible for spending Canadian taxpayers' money and is wasting their money when we are in a cost of living crisis, it absolutely is pertinent to this motion. The ArriveCAN app cost $54 million and we do not know where that money was spent, because it was only supposed to cost $250,000. Canadian taxpayers deserve to know.

This motion is extremely important as we look at the complex issue of the cost of living crisis. There are people who cannot afford to buy bread or eggs and the government is wasting money. Really what this comes down to is mismanagement of funds, possibly corruption, but we do not know. That is why we are calling on the government. If we do not have accountability, how do we get to the bottom of it? If we do not ask the right questions, we cannot get the right answers. Canadians do not have trust anymore. We need trust restored so that we can help the people.

There were 1.5 million Canadians who used a food bank in March. That is the highest number ever recorded in Canadian history. In one month, 1.5 million people accessed a food bank. One in three of those were children.

This past weekend I went to the grocery store to get some essentials. Like everyone else, I noticed the outrageous cost of food. The cashier said to me that at least three people a day tell her that they are going to have to use a food bank. We live in a G7 country.

I like to think that everyone in the House cares. I do. I really think that everyone is here because they want to serve and that is why they took this job. However, some days it is hard to believe that because of the wasteful spending and the lack of acknowledgement of an app. Just admit that it did not work, that it was a waste and we need to fix it. Let the Auditor General do it, learn from it and move on. Restore trust.

I was former shadow minister or critic for tourism, and I took so many calls about this app. I have one constituent who was featured on Global National. Her name is Katie. Katie works in the States but she is a Canadian citizen. Katie went across the border. Some of the stats will show us what happened to Katie. Her story was featured on Global National with the ArriveCAN app.

She was one of the 10,000 people who were impacted by the glitch of the app, but no communication was ever made to Katie. None. This is just another epic fail in terms of the accountability of the Liberals. She was told she was going to be fined up to $1 million. She was not just getting an email; she was literally getting accosted. She was receiving threatening messages every single day.

I do not know how one measures the damage to Katie's mental health. She was threatened with being imprisoned for up to three years. She was threatened with admission into a federal quarantine facility. The worst part is that she was threatened with never being allowed back into her own country.

There is so much wrong with this app. Conservatives kept on telling Liberals it was not working. We felt like parrots. We were saying it was not doing whatever they thought it was supposed to do. We talked about the backlogs at borders and at Pearson. Canada established this reputation whereby people had zero travel confidence to come to Canada, because of the ArriveCAN app.

I travelled from Germany, in March I believe it was, and the anger from the people on the airline at how poorly Canada was run was embarrassing. They said the ArriveCAN app was disgusting. We cannot even begin to calculate the lost revenue this faulty app created. I do not know what tools we would use to calculate this.

The tourism industry before COVID was a $105-billion industry. It is up to only $80 billion at this point. We have lost so much money because of this app.

The member from Kingston loves to heckle me, and he has come in to distract me. I have said it before and will say it again: If you don't want to listen to me, leave.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I sincerely apologize to the member if she thought I was heckling her, but I was actually talking to my colleague. Obviously I was talking too loudly, and I will try to keep it down, but I certainly was not directing anything at her.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I thank the member. I am also going to remind the member not to speak directly to members when they are in the House.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member's record in the past has not been so kind, so I appreciate it.

The magnitude of the fault of this app extends so far. When we think about a little convenience store that benefits from somebody crossing the border to come visit their parents, that benefits from tourism, how do we calculate that when that person did not get to cross the border because the Liberals doubled down in August and made it only digital. Seniors, anybody who did not have a smart phone, or anybody who did not want to download the app could not use it. If that is not discriminatory, I do not know what is.

I do not know how many seniors came into my constituency office and said they did not know how to use the app and asked me to help them. Then, when we would do it together, it would work. We will hear Liberals say that it worked fine, and I am sure it worked fine sometimes, but that is not good enough when we have a whole industry at stake. That is not good enough when we are supposed to be helping Canadians restore travel confidence. That is not good enough when people are wrongfully fined and quarantined. This happened to 10,000 people.

This is absolutely an important motion we should all be open to, because why are we elected? We are elected to serve our constituents, to serve Canadians. Why are we elected? We are elected to be accountable. If there is a $54-million app and the government does not know how it was paid for, then we owe it to Canadians to find out why.

Again, please let us get the Auditor General to conduct an audit, including the payments, contracts and subcontracts for all aspects of the ArriveCAN app, and to prioritize this investigation.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Mr. Speaker, I have been trying to clarify something with respect to this motion, because I have been getting different and conflicting answers from Conservatives and the NDP today. The very first clause in this motion, the first “whereas” clause, says “the cost of government is driving up the cost of living”.

What we heard the Leader of the Opposition say today is that he was referring to the fact there are more public servants now, more public sector jobs, than there were before the pandemic. He was essentially criticizing those public sector jobs. The NDP seems to claim it has to do with subsidizing oil, which is what the member for Courtenay—Alberni said. I am wondering if this member can clarify for me item (i) of this motion, where it says, “the cost of government is driving up the cost of living”. Is that indeed talking about the fact that there are more public sector jobs now than there were prior to the pandemic?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what we need to focus on is that when we look at food bank users in that statistic that I referred to in my speech, which was 1.5 million in one month, the highest ever recorded, it was also in conjunction with the highest employment rate. People are working, and they still cannot afford food.

The government continues to waste money over and over again on programs that do not work and that do not get to the people who need them, who are constantly met with red tape. Unless we do these audits and hold the Liberals to account, why let them just waste taxpayers' money?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I heard my colleague say in her speech that we have lost so much money because of this app, or $54 million. I completely agree with her. That $54 million is a lot of money for an app used for two or three years. That is too much money that could have been spent on other things.

Last week, the Bloc Québécois moved a motion to get rid of an expense that costs us $70 million every year. We were criticized for not getting our priorities straight. I do not really have any questions. My colleague may want to comment on that.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, to my colleague's point, $54 million may seem small when talking about a trillion-dollar debt. The comprehension level of the money that is owed in this country is not really conceivable to the average Canadian. It did not even work, and we cannot even calculate the amount of money that was lost because of its ineffectiveness.

We should be challenging the government if it is not stepping up. It should be offering to do this audit. We should not have to call on it to do this audit. That is the right thing to do. If the government is mismanaging Canadian taxpayers' money, it ought to be ready to take a stand on that.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that has been on my mind is whether any other countries around the world have something like the ArriveCAN app. I checked. At least among our peers in the G20, not a single one has an app like this, not Germany, South Korea, India, the U.K., South Africa or Japan. I will not name them all, but there are 20 of them.

The exception is Canada. We have this app that cost $54 million, an app that Canadians did not need and cannot afford. Could my hon. colleague comment on the fact that we spent $54 million on something that was apparently not necessary in the eyes of our G20 peers?