Debates of May 19th, 2022

Public Works and Government Services—Main Estimates, 2022-23

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, this is the most significant investment in 30 years, and $19 billion is a lot of money to spend for Canadians.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, for $19 billion, we would hope that we would at least know what the block number, model or type we would be getting of the F-35. What is the expected 30-year cost to purchase, operate and maintain the combatants—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. minister.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, again, it is in negotiations.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, it is generally a two to three to one cost ratio to operate and maintain. The PBO said it is about $70 billion for the purchase, which leads to almost a quarter trillion dollars for the maintenance and operation over a lifespan. Does the minister agree?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, the project budget is $56 billion to $60 billion. That is an estimate without taxes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, when does the government expect to sign a contract with Irving Shipbuilding to begin construction of the surface combatants?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, that is still in the design phase.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, when is the first ship expected to be delivered?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, we are working out the exact dates and details.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, that is funny, because in a previous OGGO meeting, years ago, we were actually given a date, and now it is being decided.

An Order Paper delivered by the government stated that the costs for the Coast Guard AOPS would be $750 million per ship. Irving Shipbuilding testified just last week it would be considerably less. Who is telling the truth?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, as I have said before, we continue to monitor these contracts, and we will share the specifics and details once the contracts are signed and commitments have been made.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, how can the government state $750 million publicly on an Order Paper question when the shipyard is saying less? Now we are hearing that the government does not know the exact number and cannot release that information.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, this is an estimated budget, and we are going to continue to work. We will be open and transparent with respect to numbers when they are confirmed.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, at no point in the Order Paper does it say it is an estimated cost. It says the cost provided by the government. Irving, the shipbuilder, says it is considerably less. Again, who is telling the truth?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, again, this is estimated at this point. When it is confirmed, we will share those numbers.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, has the contract been signed for the two AOPS for the Coast Guard?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, no contract has been signed.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, PSPC 2019-2020 achieved just 58% of their planned targets, yet the executives were paid out over $8 million in bonuses. Last year, PSPC failed to achieve over one-third of their targets, as noted in their departmental plans. Would the minister confirm she will not be approving executive bonuses for such failure?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, my understanding is that bonuses are being paid based on the terms of their contract agreements.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, the terms of their contract agreements also include making their targets, as noted in the departmental plans, so will the minister be paying out bonuses to executives for the failure from last year?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, actually, I would never refer to the work of public servants as a failure.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, missing one-third of their targets is not a success. One target missed by PSPC was paying public servants accurately and on time. It missed this by a whopping 23%.

Will the minister confirm that she will not be approving executive bonuses for this failure?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Madam Chair, we had complications with Phoenix, something that was left to us by the opposition. Public servants are working very hard to correct this, because public servants should be paid accurately and on time.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Chair, these targets were not left by the opposition party; they were made by the minister. It was a Liberal government that enacted Phoenix, over the opposition of the OGGO committee.

Two other targets missed were increasing contracts to women-owned businesses and increasing them to indigenous-owned businesses, despite their prominent roles in the departmental plans.

Will PSPC be paying executive bonuses for missing these targets?