Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I believe there is another point of order by the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, again, with respect, the member was speaking once again as though only coastal communities have relevance in this conversation. I would like him to recognize that there are many non-coastal communities that appreciate the fisheries and what they provide to Canada. Maybe he could clarify what he is talking about.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

We are using points of order for debate, and I would suggest that maybe points of order are actually used.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That is another great ruling by you, Mr. Chair.

The commercial and recreational fishing sectors are also key economic drivers in coastal communities. Ocean-based recreational fisheries contribute approximately 2% to Canada's marine economy output and are important economic pillars. Whether they are large or small-scale operations, commercial fishing and associated businesses are often the single-largest sources of local jobs in Canada's coastal regions. In 2018, the commercial fishing industry directly contributed $2.3 billion to Canadian gross domestic product, while the aquaculture industry directly contributed $700 million and the fish processing industry contributed $1.2 billion. The total direct and indirect contribution of the seafood industry to the Canadian economy accounted for $7.6 billion in 2018.

Canada's commercial fishery sector is highly export-oriented, producing the country's greatest single food commodity export by value and equivalent to about 80% of production volume. Commercial fisheries also support fish and seafood processing, which are key parts of the value chain and significant employers in indigenous and other coastal communities. An estimated 20,400 individuals are directly employed in fish and seafood processing, with an additional 32,167 indirect jobs stemming from the industry. Canada's fish harvesters have responded to growing demands from markets to demonstrate that their fish products come from sustainable fisheries.

Across Canada, there are approximately 45 fisheries that are part of 32 marine stewardship council certifications, having demonstrated that they meet the criteria established by the global—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

It seems there is another point of order by the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, this is supposed the time that we question the minister about her portfolio. I have not heard a question yet. I wonder when we are going to actually hear some questions from the member.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The tradition in this House has normally been that when government members are speaking, they get to speak and ask questions in the last five minutes of their time. I am going to wait until the 10 minutes is complete and the member, I am sure, will be asking a question.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, the member certainly should review the rules around the committee of the whole and estimates, which actually provides any member either the opportunity to speak for the entire 15 minutes, asking questions, or to provide 10 minutes of a speech, followed by questions. I am sure the member knew that and he just forgot.

Canada's fish harvesters have responded to the growing demands for markets to demonstrate that the fish products come from sustainable fisheries. Across Canada, there are approximately 45 fisheries that are a part of 32 Marine Stewardship Council certifications, having demonstrated that they meet the criteria established by the global non-profit organization for sustainable fisheries. These include Atlantic fisheries such as northern and striped shrimp, offshore scallops, lobster, Arctic surf clams, snow crab, swordfish and groundfish, Atlantic halibut, cod, redfish and herring and Pacific fisheries such as salmon, Pacific halibut and more.

Moreover, 61% of all landings from Canada's fisheries come from fisheries in the MSC program. It is one of the highest percentages among major fishing nations. The long-term sustainability and success of the commercial fishing sector is directly linked to the health of fish stocks. Growing pressure on fish stocks and environmental impacts, such as the dual crises of climate change and biodiversity loss, pose current and future challenges for Canadian fisheries. Many harvesters will say that they can see the impacts of climate change out on the water. While some stocks in Canadian waters, such as lobster and halibut, appear to be benefiting from current environmental conditions, some commercially significant marine fish stocks in Canada are at low levels or at risk of decline.

With the modernization of the Fisheries Act in 2019, our government created new tools to continue to promote healthier marine ecosystems and more abundant fish stocks across the country. The Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard now has the legislative and regulatory mechanisms in place to protect existing fish and fish habitat, prioritize rebuilding depleted fish stocks and incorporate indigenous traditional knowledge into decision-making—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

A point of order from the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, the hon. member referred to threatened stocks. I just wonder if he could actually specify what the threatened stocks actually are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

We are getting into questions and answers again. That is not really what the point of the discussion is. I also will make a quick comment here that there was a lot of addition earlier, so I guess this is just payback.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, are you sustaining that point of order? Is there relevance? What is the point of order?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

This is debate. Debate is not a point of order.

The hon. member.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, furthermore, are you now saying that because one person did something earlier another person can do it? What is going on here?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I was just making a general comment.

The hon. member.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is great. I would hate to see that kind of precedent being set by you today at almost 11 o'clock at night.

We can already see the benefits from the modem safeguards the Fisheries Act provides. Just last month, on April 4, to be precise, the fish—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I have another point of order from the hon. member for South Shore—St. Margarets.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, I am concerned about interpretation. I think I heard the member earlier refer to scallops. I think those refer to potatoes. We call them scallops, if members know anything about the fishery.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

All right. We are descending into more debate than we should be. That is not a point of order.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Chair, we can already see the benefits from the modern safeguards that the Fisheries Act provides. Just last month, on April 4, to be precise, the fish stock provisions of the Fisheries Act came into force for 30 major stocks prescribed by regulation, 14 of which require rebuilding. The provisions introduced binding obligations on the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to maintain prescribed fish stocks at sustainable levels and to develop and implement rebuilding plans if these stocks become depleted.

Corresponding regulations are now in place to ensure that rebuilding plans are developed in a timely and consistent manner. The fish stock provisions and corresponding regulatory amendments have significantly strengthened Canada's fisheries management framework. They are a major milestone toward restoring and rebuilding Canada's fish stocks and supporting sustainable fisheries for the long term.

These accomplishments support the already great work that Fisheries and Oceans Canada and its partners have been doing to rebuild our fish stocks and place greater accountability on the responsible management of our fisheries for generations to come. This government is committed to restoring Canada's fish stocks to abundance so that they can continue to support indigenous peoples, harvesters, coastal communities and the overall health of marine ecosystems. Healthy fish stocks support more resilient ecosystems while improving the potential for economic returns in the long term.

When a stock has declined, conservation of the stock and concrete action aimed at rebuilding it are of primary importance. Of course, this does not come without a cost. This government recognizes that when a decision is taken to close or restrict certain fisheries so that stocks can be rebuilt, there will be economic impacts during the rebuilding period. These decisions are not taken lightly. The DFO strives to minimize the socio-economic impacts and rebuild initiatives without compromising the primary goal of promoting the rebuilding of depleted fish stocks.

In practice, this is an enormous and complicated undertaking. However, more significant and potentially long-term impacts can result from delaying action, or not taking sufficient action, to promote the rebuilding of stocks.

DFO will continue to invest in its science programming to ensure fishery decisions based on the precautionary approach continue to be informed by leading science advice on the biology of fish stocks and environmental variables affecting those stocks.

The 2018 fall economic statement announced $107.4 million over five years and $17.6 million in ongoing investments to support the implementation of the fish stocks provisions in the 2019 amendments to the Fisheries Act.

A large portion of this funding is supporting science activities, from at-sea surveys to the development of reference points to apply the precautionary approach to fishery decisions. Further, DFO is funding external projects to support innovation in fisheries and science that will contribute to sustainable fisheries.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and this government more broadly, continue to be firmly committed to safeguarding the long-term viability of Canada's fisheries and coastal communities by ensuring the health of Canada's fish stocks and aquatic ecosystems.

For communities across Canada, fish are an important resource. Commercial and recreational fishing sectors are key economic drivers in coastal communities, with ocean-based recreational fisheries contributing about 2% to Canada's marine economy output. Harvesting operations both large and small are often the single largest source of local jobs in Canada's coastal regions.

In 2018 alone, the commercial fishing industry contributed $2.3 billion to Canada's gross domestic product, with the aquaculture industry contributing $700 million and the fish processing industry contributing $1.2 billion. The total direct and indirect contribution of the seafood industry to the Canadian economy accounted for $7.6 billion. This industry provides an estimated 20,400 individuals with direct employment in fish and seafood processing, with an additional 32,167 indirect jobs stemming from the industry.

With this in mind, it is easy to see why the fishing industry is so important to not just coastal communities, but indeed to Canada as a whole, which is why I have such a great interest in this tonight.

Can the minister please explain what she is doing to ensure the long-term sustainability and viability of the commercial fishing sector?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Mr. Chair, I thought the member's comments were very insightful, especially when he was talking about this being an enormous and complicated undertaking. When we think about the country of Canada, with two and a half times the length of coastline of any other country in the world and oceans on three different coasts, it is enormous and complicated. That is one of the reasons that ministry officials work with the local harvest community and other stakeholders as they seek to translate data into conservation or fishery action.

Our government did indeed create new tools to continue to promote healthier marine ecosystems and more abundant fish stocks across the country. We now have legislative and regulatory mechanisms in place that will protect existing fish and fish habitat, prioritize rebuilding depleted fish stocks and incorporate indigenous knowledge into decision-making. Among these tools are the fish stock provisions in the Fisheries Act that create modern safeguards on fish stocks. These provisions create binding obligations to maintain prescribed fish stocks at sustainable levels and to develop and implement rebuilding plans for depleted stocks.

This has significantly strengthened our fisheries management framework. It is a major step toward better restoring and rebuilding our fish stocks, which are essential to supporting sustainable fisheries in the long run. It is a virtual circle: Ensuring that we have healthy fish stocks supports more resilient marine ecosystems, and thus they provide greater economic returns for Canada's harvesters.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, earlier, the minister said that the DFO scientific team included economists and sociologists. Could the minister tell us how many economists are employed by DFO?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, we could find that number out for the member of Parliament.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would also like to know how many sociologists work at DFO. In addition, are there other social science experts working at DFO and, if so, what types of experts?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, a range of experts are working with DFO, including sociologists and others who would have the expertise to interpret the data. We have a very strong digital team as well, which knows how to use digital means to summarize and communicate the—