Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we will continue to work to satisfy the Supreme Court decision.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, if the Marshall response initiative did not satisfy the Marshall decision, then why did Prime Minister Chrétien call it the Marshall response initiative?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I will just go back to the fact that relations with indigenous Canadians and reconciliation are of a high priority.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, how many prosecutions have occurred from DFO investigations for out-of-season fishing in the Maritimes?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we can get that detail—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, when the minister makes a decision to reduce the allowable catch of a species, as the minister has done recently in several cases, does she consider science in the decision-making process?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, I do consider science. It is the foundation.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, in considering the science, does the minister ask questions about the science?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, I do, with great interest.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister recently decided to shut down the commercial Atlantic mackerel fishery. Two primary sources of science used by DFO to understand the science are stock catch data and spawning biomass.

Can the minister tell us what temperature the water in the gulf needs to be for Atlantic mackerel to spawn?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I can tell the member is that this stock had been in the critical zone and the stock numbers had been declining for a number of years. By putting a hold on it, I am aiming that we increase the abundance.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister does not know the answer to that question. The water needs to be between 10° to 13°.

Can the minister tell us what the average temperature has been over the last decade when DFO does it spawning science for Atlantic mackerel?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I can tell the member is that the department is very committed to doing the science about mackerel, which happens every two years. We follow that closely.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I guess this is why the department is failing in its targets. Eight degrees is the answer. It is 8° when DFO does its science on spawning biomass, when mackerel only spawn in waters of 10° to 13°.

Is the minister surprised to learn that the science that is being presented to her presents a picture of a low spawning biomass when DFO does its science because mackerel are not spawning?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I really appreciate the member's recognition of the importance of science and his keen interest in the science of mackerel allocations.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, wow. I guess the minister knows a lot about the science when she shuts down a fishery.

Has the Minister read the 2005 Supreme Court decisions known as the Bernard and the Stephen Marshall cases?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, no, I have not.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I am surprised. The Marshall decision narrows the definition of the right to hunt, fish and gather. Can the minister tell members how the decision did that?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I do know is that indigenous communities have been left out of fisheries for many decades, if not generations, so I am proud to be—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, Chief Justice McLachlin stated in the Stephen Marshall case that the right to hunt, fish and gather is limited to the things that first nations hunted, fished and gathered in 1761 when the treaty was signed.

Since the minister did not know that, can the minister explain to me why the minister decided to expropriate 14% of the commercial elver quota—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I will allow the hon. minister to respond. There are only two seconds left.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to have been able to provide moderate lively fishery in the elver fishery for those who were asking for it. With the co-operation of the non-indigenous harvesters, we were able to utilize the—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Unfortunately, the time is up.

Resuming debate, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.