Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Order. We were doing really well here until we started into this. I do not know if it is just the late hour or what it happens to be, but we still have a couple of hours of this, so I would suggest that people just bear in and concentrate so we can get this done.

The hon. member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, mackerel fishers have reported changing sizes and spawning locations and have asked to be involved in science, to no avail. I would like to ask the minister why.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, in collecting data to make assessments, we do consult with harvesters and others.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, based on DFO surveys, fishing zone 4R has a growing shrimp biomass. Why was the quota cut this year?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, any of the allocations are based on the science and the stock abundance.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, does DFO consider shrimp to be a forage fish for the exploding Gulf of St. Lawrence redfish biomass?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, my understanding is the answer is yes, and redfish are predators of the shrimp.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, shrimp fetch as much as $2 a pound. Redfish may fetch one-fifth of that price. Therefore, what sense does it make to stop fishing shrimp in order to grow a less valuable species like redfish?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, that would not have been the reason to stop fishing the shrimp. We were setting an allocation that would protect the shrimp.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, DFO often references consultations with external scientists. Can the minister tell us which external groups or environmental non-government agencies, ENGOs, these scientists belong to?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, there is an enormous range of who is consulted because in every stock in every area there are consultations. However, I am happy to provide lists if the member requests that.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, what does influence stock management decisions?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, discussions are a collaborative process. Harvesters are part of that as well and DFO considers all of the inputs of knowledgeable people who are part of the advisory groups.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, would the minister agree that these ENGOs have a predetermined agenda in some cases?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, there is a value to the information that comes from fishers. There is a value to the perspective that comes from people who have the environment as their priority, also.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, in the minister's first appearance at the fisheries committee, the minister referenced unbiased science. Is science provided by ENGOs biased or unbiased?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, science is a method and people who appropriately apply that method to gather and analyze data and check it through peer review do science. What can I say? Some—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, I guess there is just one science. It is all objective. That is wonderful.

If the minister were a fish harvester, and her livelihood and investment were at the mercy of ENGOs with agendas to end commercial fishing, can she tell us how she would feel?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, my goal is to grow the fish and seafood sector. To do that, we need to have abundance in the stocks. Therefore, the conservation steps that we take are for—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, the people in the fishing industry feel that they are left in the dark in Newfoundland and Labrador when it comes to proposed MPAs. Weeks ago, I asked for a map of proposed new MPAs, and I am still waiting for it. Why is the minister's department not being transparent about its plans for MPAs?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, the department officials are consulting widely on their plans for MPAs on all three coasts.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, the “30 by 30” MPA policy is DFO's goal to protect all aspects of biodiversity within those MPAs: yes or no?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, there is not a yes-or-no answer because these are consultative activities. There are four key industrial usages that are not permitted, but otherwise it is about consulting with local people.