Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, if the Marshall response initiative did not satisfy the Marshall decision, then why did Prime Minister Chrétien call it the Marshall response initiative?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I will just go back to the fact that relations with indigenous Canadians and reconciliation are of a high priority.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, how many prosecutions have occurred from DFO investigations for out-of-season fishing in the Maritimes?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we can get that detail—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, when the minister makes a decision to reduce the allowable catch of a species, as the minister has done recently in several cases, does she consider science in the decision-making process?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, I do consider science. It is the foundation.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, in considering the science, does the minister ask questions about the science?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, I do, with great interest.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister recently decided to shut down the commercial Atlantic mackerel fishery. Two primary sources of science used by DFO to understand the science are stock catch data and spawning biomass.

Can the minister tell us what temperature the water in the gulf needs to be for Atlantic mackerel to spawn?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I can tell the member is that this stock had been in the critical zone and the stock numbers had been declining for a number of years. By putting a hold on it, I am aiming that we increase the abundance.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the minister does not know the answer to that question. The water needs to be between 10° to 13°.

Can the minister tell us what the average temperature has been over the last decade when DFO does it spawning science for Atlantic mackerel?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I can tell the member is that the department is very committed to doing the science about mackerel, which happens every two years. We follow that closely.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I guess this is why the department is failing in its targets. Eight degrees is the answer. It is 8° when DFO does its science on spawning biomass, when mackerel only spawn in waters of 10° to 13°.

Is the minister surprised to learn that the science that is being presented to her presents a picture of a low spawning biomass when DFO does its science because mackerel are not spawning?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I really appreciate the member's recognition of the importance of science and his keen interest in the science of mackerel allocations.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, wow. I guess the minister knows a lot about the science when she shuts down a fishery.

Has the Minister read the 2005 Supreme Court decisions known as the Bernard and the Stephen Marshall cases?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, no, I have not.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I am surprised. The Marshall decision narrows the definition of the right to hunt, fish and gather. Can the minister tell members how the decision did that?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, what I do know is that indigenous communities have been left out of fisheries for many decades, if not generations, so I am proud to be—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, Chief Justice McLachlin stated in the Stephen Marshall case that the right to hunt, fish and gather is limited to the things that first nations hunted, fished and gathered in 1761 when the treaty was signed.

Since the minister did not know that, can the minister explain to me why the minister decided to expropriate 14% of the commercial elver quota—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I will allow the hon. minister to respond. There are only two seconds left.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to have been able to provide moderate lively fishery in the elver fishery for those who were asking for it. With the co-operation of the non-indigenous harvesters, we were able to utilize the—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Unfortunately, the time is up.

Resuming debate, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, it is my pleasure to rise in committee of the whole to present the items in the 2022-23 main estimates for Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard.

Today I am seeking $3.98 billion in planned spending. This amount represents a decrease of $396.2 million in total planned spending compared to the previous fiscal year. This variance in spending is attributed to a combination of factors, including the evolution of existing programs and the completion of other initiatives, as well as some recently introduced programs.

To be more specific, these main estimates include an increase of $589.8 million that is earmarked for a number of key initiatives. This includes $176.7 million in new funding for the Pacific salmon strategy initiative; $149.5 million in new funding for the small craft harbours program; $126 million in new funding related to marine conservation targets; $40.1 million to help conserve Canada's lands and fresh water, protect species, advance indigenous reconciliation and increase access to nature; and an additional $97.5 million for other initiatives.

It is important to note that these increases have been offset by $986 million in spending decreases in other program areas. This includes a number of planned funding profile changes related to indigenous programs, the five-year oceans protection plan, the department's response to the Big Bar landslide, Canadian Coast Guard fleet projects, the Trans Mountain expansion project, as well as other select programs.

This $986 million in spending decreases also includes $140 million in savings, which is attributed to a program that supported self-employed Canadian fish harvesters who were impacted by COVID-19. The original intent of this program was to provide immediate financial assistance to harvesters affected by the pandemic so their operations could begin or continue during the 2020-21 fishing season. Now that this program has met its intended objectives, we are in the process of drawing it to a close.

I want to take this opportunity to address one of the key reductions in planned spending for the 2022-23 year compared to the previous fiscal year. I am referring to the $468.4-million decrease in planned spending on some indigenous programs within my portfolio. It is important to note that this type of planned spending varies each year based on the status of ongoing negotiations and other influences. The main factor underlying this year-over-year change is related to the successful ratification of significant reconciliation funding agreements in 2021-22.

To be more specific, my department transferred approximately $300 million to indigenous groups to support their fisheries access, vessels and gear, as well as collaborative governance. Of this funding, $290 million represents one-time payments. As members know, my department plays a central role in advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples, and I am very proud of the progress we have made to date, while acknowledging we still have much work to do together. As we chart a fair and equitable path forward, DFO will continue to negotiate and implement fisheries reconciliation agreements and treaty-related measures to advance reconciliation through the fisheries.

I want my hon. colleagues to know I am committed to working with indigenous partners across Canada to find mutually acceptable outcomes on a broad range of files related to fisheries and aquaculture, oceans planning and conservation, habitat protection and restoration, scientific research, and marine safety and environmental protection. By working together toward shared goals, I am confident we can better manage our ocean and marine resources in ways that are collaborative and respectful of indigenous values and communities, as well as their treaty and cultural rights and their aspirations.

I also want to take a few minutes to talk about the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, which will receive $176.7 million in additional funding through these main estimates. Pacific salmon are some of the most iconic species in Canada. They hold immense social, cultural and economic significance for many coastal and inland communities throughout British Columbia and the Yukon, but unfortunately these stocks are also facing serious and unprecedented challenges and declines as a result of a number of complex risk factors.

Urgent and coordinated action is necessary to not only protect and stabilize Pacific salmon stocks, but also to help them recover. That is why budget 2021 set aside $647.1 million over five years, plus $98.9 million in amortization to preserve and rebuild Pacific salmon stocks. This historic investment is being used to conduct research, open new hatcheries, restore habitat, launch the Pacific salmon secretariat and the habitat restoration centre of expertise, and engage with first nations and fish harvesters on the west coast.

To reverse the decline of Pacific salmon stocks, additional funds from the main estimates will be used to advance the Pacific salmon strategy initiative and support ongoing efforts and activities with our many partners.

Before I conclude, I would like to highlight some of the investments in budget 2022 that will help Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard fulfill their mandate.

Chapter 3 of the budget includes a section called “Protecting Our Lands, Lakes, and Oceans”, which includes dedicated funding for my department. Most notably, it sets aside $1.1 billion over nine years and $74.5 million in ongoing funding to renew the oceans protection plan.

Additional funding is earmarked for a zero plastic waste initiative, of which my department will receive $41.1 million over five years to help reduce plastic pollution in the marine environment. This includes $10 million for the ghost gear program so our partners on the water can continue removing lost, abandoned and discarded fishing gear from our oceans to keep fishing ongoing. It will also go toward testing new and innovative fishing gear to help reduce gear loss.

Finally, budget 2022 provides $44.9 million over five years, beginning in 2022-23, and $9 million in ongoing funding for my department to meet Canada's commitments to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. In April, our colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services and the member of Parliament for Niagara Centre, who has worked very hard on this matter, made this announcement and can attest to the fact that it was very much welcomed news indeed.

I am confident the funding outlined in these main estimates, coupled with the investments contained in budget 2022 and budget 2021, will help my department implement the initiatives I have just highlighted and fulfill our broader mandate on behalf of the Canadians we are so proud to serve.