Debates of May 30th, 2022

Department of Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates 2022-23

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, it is my pleasure to rise in committee of the whole to present the items in the 2022-23 main estimates for Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard.

Today I am seeking $3.98 billion in planned spending. This amount represents a decrease of $396.2 million in total planned spending compared to the previous fiscal year. This variance in spending is attributed to a combination of factors, including the evolution of existing programs and the completion of other initiatives, as well as some recently introduced programs.

To be more specific, these main estimates include an increase of $589.8 million that is earmarked for a number of key initiatives. This includes $176.7 million in new funding for the Pacific salmon strategy initiative; $149.5 million in new funding for the small craft harbours program; $126 million in new funding related to marine conservation targets; $40.1 million to help conserve Canada's lands and fresh water, protect species, advance indigenous reconciliation and increase access to nature; and an additional $97.5 million for other initiatives.

It is important to note that these increases have been offset by $986 million in spending decreases in other program areas. This includes a number of planned funding profile changes related to indigenous programs, the five-year oceans protection plan, the department's response to the Big Bar landslide, Canadian Coast Guard fleet projects, the Trans Mountain expansion project, as well as other select programs.

This $986 million in spending decreases also includes $140 million in savings, which is attributed to a program that supported self-employed Canadian fish harvesters who were impacted by COVID-19. The original intent of this program was to provide immediate financial assistance to harvesters affected by the pandemic so their operations could begin or continue during the 2020-21 fishing season. Now that this program has met its intended objectives, we are in the process of drawing it to a close.

I want to take this opportunity to address one of the key reductions in planned spending for the 2022-23 year compared to the previous fiscal year. I am referring to the $468.4-million decrease in planned spending on some indigenous programs within my portfolio. It is important to note that this type of planned spending varies each year based on the status of ongoing negotiations and other influences. The main factor underlying this year-over-year change is related to the successful ratification of significant reconciliation funding agreements in 2021-22.

To be more specific, my department transferred approximately $300 million to indigenous groups to support their fisheries access, vessels and gear, as well as collaborative governance. Of this funding, $290 million represents one-time payments. As members know, my department plays a central role in advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples, and I am very proud of the progress we have made to date, while acknowledging we still have much work to do together. As we chart a fair and equitable path forward, DFO will continue to negotiate and implement fisheries reconciliation agreements and treaty-related measures to advance reconciliation through the fisheries.

I want my hon. colleagues to know I am committed to working with indigenous partners across Canada to find mutually acceptable outcomes on a broad range of files related to fisheries and aquaculture, oceans planning and conservation, habitat protection and restoration, scientific research, and marine safety and environmental protection. By working together toward shared goals, I am confident we can better manage our ocean and marine resources in ways that are collaborative and respectful of indigenous values and communities, as well as their treaty and cultural rights and their aspirations.

I also want to take a few minutes to talk about the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, which will receive $176.7 million in additional funding through these main estimates. Pacific salmon are some of the most iconic species in Canada. They hold immense social, cultural and economic significance for many coastal and inland communities throughout British Columbia and the Yukon, but unfortunately these stocks are also facing serious and unprecedented challenges and declines as a result of a number of complex risk factors.

Urgent and coordinated action is necessary to not only protect and stabilize Pacific salmon stocks, but also to help them recover. That is why budget 2021 set aside $647.1 million over five years, plus $98.9 million in amortization to preserve and rebuild Pacific salmon stocks. This historic investment is being used to conduct research, open new hatcheries, restore habitat, launch the Pacific salmon secretariat and the habitat restoration centre of expertise, and engage with first nations and fish harvesters on the west coast.

To reverse the decline of Pacific salmon stocks, additional funds from the main estimates will be used to advance the Pacific salmon strategy initiative and support ongoing efforts and activities with our many partners.

Before I conclude, I would like to highlight some of the investments in budget 2022 that will help Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard fulfill their mandate.

Chapter 3 of the budget includes a section called “Protecting Our Lands, Lakes, and Oceans”, which includes dedicated funding for my department. Most notably, it sets aside $1.1 billion over nine years and $74.5 million in ongoing funding to renew the oceans protection plan.

Additional funding is earmarked for a zero plastic waste initiative, of which my department will receive $41.1 million over five years to help reduce plastic pollution in the marine environment. This includes $10 million for the ghost gear program so our partners on the water can continue removing lost, abandoned and discarded fishing gear from our oceans to keep fishing ongoing. It will also go toward testing new and innovative fishing gear to help reduce gear loss.

Finally, budget 2022 provides $44.9 million over five years, beginning in 2022-23, and $9 million in ongoing funding for my department to meet Canada's commitments to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. In April, our colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services and the member of Parliament for Niagara Centre, who has worked very hard on this matter, made this announcement and can attest to the fact that it was very much welcomed news indeed.

I am confident the funding outlined in these main estimates, coupled with the investments contained in budget 2022 and budget 2021, will help my department implement the initiatives I have just highlighted and fulfill our broader mandate on behalf of the Canadians we are so proud to serve.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, it is great to be here in the committee of the whole.

Fishing is the lifeblood of our rural coastal communities from coast to coast to coast. It is the main driver of local economies. Whether it is bait, gear or simply grabbing a coffee on the way to wharf, it drives jobs directly and indirectly.

I have been on the wharves in every area of my riding of Cape Breton—Canso, chatting with the hard-working fishers, whether it is in Whitehead, Baxters Cove, Chéticamp, Glace Bay Harbour, Grand Étang and all points in between. People like Jetty Boudreau, Lauchie MacKinnon, Herb Nash, Bobby Trucker, Gord McKinnon, Carla Samson, Leonard Leblanc, and the many fishers in the three first nation communities that I serve in Potlotek, Paqtnkek and We'koqma'q, understand the need to pass the knowledge on to future generations and know how to preserve the species for the future.

I am always impressed by how much homegrown innovation comes directly from all of our rural communities. I think of a company in my riding, Louisbourg Seafoods, through whose constant and progressive innovation is able to provide hundreds of rural jobs to Canadians, which are steady and predictable employment for its staff, their families and the communities that I serve and that we serve.

With that in mind, can the minister please speak to her experiences as minister with the hard-working folks of this industry, and in particular her vision, her vision to continue to support rural coastal economies, but in particular the blue economy?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, as the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans, my role is to support and grow the fish and seafood sector. To do that we need to have abundant and vibrant fisheries. In DFO, we are thinking every day about how we can make sure we have the science, the partnerships and the discussions with all of those affected, whether it is the harvesters or the indigenous communities, so we can allocate out fisheries in a way that is supportive of the communities, the fish processing sector and our very important seafood sector, and to do it in a way that builds on the health and abundance of our fisheries even as we protect and restore the abundance of those that are challenged.

There are many hard-working people in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. This is the work that they get up excited to do every day on behalf of the Canadians who live in the small and rural communities and work in the fish plants, on the ships at sea and on the wharves, so I want to use this opportunity to thank not just my officials, but also those who do this very hard work out on the oceans and in the fish plants.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Madam Chair, I spoke of the Atlantic coast and I spoke, in the last question, of coast to coast to coast, but I would like to speak a little bit about, and the question will be on, the Great Lakes.

Among my colleagues in the House and at committee, I've been reminded and actually learned a lot about the importance of the Great Lakes and, more specifically, the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission. As the member for Niagara Centre has reminded me, the economic, environmental and socio-cultural significance of the Great Lakes is extremely profound.

The Great Lakes contain 20% of the planet's fresh surface water, and they are the basis of billions of dollars of economic activity. They are essential to the well-being of communities on both sides of the border. Ecologically, they support numerous species, providing drinking water for many and supporting thousands of jobs.

The Great Lakes Fisheries Commission was established by the Great Lakes Fisheries Convention of 1954 between the United States of America and Canada, for the purpose of protecting and supporting the Great Lakes fisheries, particularly to control the invasive sea lamprey; to conduct scientific research that was needed; and to ensure the management overall of the Great Lakes fisheries.

Could the minister speak to the important investments we are making in the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission and how we are supporting the binational partnerships with the United States of America?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we are privileged, as Canadians, to live in a country that has the Great Lakes area as part of our country. We share the Great Lakes with the United States. The Great Lakes have almost 20% of all the fresh water on this planet, so this is an amazing resource. The Great Lakes are critical in so many ways, for providing fresh water to citizens, for providing recreation, whether it is boating, swimming, paddling and even hunting and fishing. The Great Lakes are also a huge source of economic value. The wine region, the Niagara wine region, is so successful because of the microclimate around the Great Lakes.

One of the challenges with the Great Lakes, of course, is that there are some invasive species that do not belong there, that have proliferated and that need to be addressed. A primary one is the sea lamprey. The Great Lakes Fisheries Commission is a collaboration between the United States and Canada. We have a formal treaty between the Department of State and Global Affairs Canada to—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The time is up.

Continuing with debate, we have the hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to speak this evening.

On March 30, the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard closed the herring and mackerel fishery in the Gulf of St. Lawrence with no prior notice that would have enabled fishers to pivot and come up with a plan B.

When did the department first observe a drop in the biomass of spring herring and mackerel?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, unfortunately, the abundance of these stocks has been on the decline for many years. This decision was not made lightly. We gave it a lot of thought, because I understand the repercussions it has on fishers who use these stocks as bait.

However, it is very important that we manage these stocks so that they can grow for fishers, their children, and their grandchildren in the future.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, a leading scientist at the Université du Québec à Rimouski told us that he observed a significant decline in the resource more than 10 years ago, even 20 years in some places. Why did no one sound the alarm sooner to provide a bit of clarity to the fishers, who are currently feeling helpless?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her question.

We reduced this stock over the past 10 years. It went down little by little, but unfortunately, it was not enough to allow them to grow. That is why I closed—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Beauport—Côte‑de‑Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, how is it that no one in the department had the foresight to assist fishermen, knowing that the resource is in decline? How is it possible that no one had the foresight to consider the people in this equation?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her question.

Many fishermen harvest other healthy stocks, such as lobster. Very few of them fish only herring and mackerel. We helped them by including them in the scientific fisheries to—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Beauport—Côte‑de‑Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to know whether the minister believes that just closing the fishery is enough to restore the stocks, since the mortality rate from fishing for this species is about 6%.

I am wondering whether she believes that closing the fishery will be enough to restore the resource.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, I thank my colleague for her question.

This fish is a food source for other very important stocks, such as cod. I realize that fishing is partially responsible for some of the pressure on this stock, but it depends on the stock. If we can increase it, and I hope we can, we will—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, did the minister receive the unanimous motion tabled on April 7 by the Quebec National Assembly calling for compensation for the financial losses incurred by fishers affected by the closing of the fishery?

Is the minister aware of that unanimous motion from the Quebec National Assembly?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, yes, I am aware of that motion. We are currently reviewing it.

At the same time, there are stocks all across the country that sometimes have to be reduced or increased. A decision is usually—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Beauport—Côte‑de‑Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, will the minister respond to the motion adopted by the Quebec National Assembly?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, we will review it and will, of course, respond.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, it is quite surprising that the government has not already done so. Could the minister give an idea of the timeline? When does she plan to assess how much compensation should be paid to these fishers who are facing a black hole, who no longer have EI, who are waiting in limbo and whose families are running out of resources and money?

Some fishers and families are in dire straits. It is not true that all fishers also fish lobster. Many fishers in the Gaspé earn their living solely from herring and mackerel. I would like to know whether she plans to do something quickly.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Chair, no, there is no timeline.

We are very concerned about people who are losing their jobs because of the decline in the fisheries. I know that it is very difficult, but Fisheries and Oceans Canada generally does not compensate all fishers when there is a decline, nor does it claw back money when there is an increase. We are looking into this and will respond.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Chair, it is very interesting to hear the minister talk about a plan that may come to fruition in the medium term.

It is a bit like agriculture. Because the climate for agriculture is unpredictable, there are all sorts of tools for overcoming certain difficulties, such as those caused by climate change.

Could the minister come up with some kind of aid, such as compensation, quota transfers or emergency funds, and finally offer a plan to help fishers who are victims of sudden and unexpected decisions made by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans?