Debates of May 30th, 2022

Instruction to the Standing Committee on Finance

[An hon. member]

You are the only one saying that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, no, I am not the only one saying that. As a matter of fact, I said it earlier. I will respond to their heckles, if they want—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. Again, if members have questions and comments, they should wait until it is the appropriate time.

The hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon is rising on a point of order.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Madam Speaker, the member for Kingston and the Islands fully knows well that the leader of the Conservative Party—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I am sorry, but that is not a point of order.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, earlier I was giving my speech in the House and I said that it appears the member from Barrie—Innisfil, the opposition House leader, is the leader of the party. He said, “Thank you. I am the leader.” He said that. I only picked up on his own words.

[An hon. member]

I said I was House leader.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, was he being facetious? It is quite possible, but I would suggest that he only be serious in the House so we make sure we have all the right information.

That is what he has done here. He has now introduced another motion in an attempt to burn more time, so that we cannot debate the important issues that Canadians have. It is ironic. Now they are heckling me and asking me to stop talking, but the irony is that this is the same individual who, only moments ago, asked why we could not talk more. He said that we need to talk more and that we need more debate.

The incredibly rich hypocrisy from the member for Barrie—Innisfil and Conservatives generally speaking is absolutely breathtaking. I see the games they are playing and the manner in which they are conducting themselves, and they are not interested in anything that is their job.

When I was in an exchange in the previous debate with the member for Regina—Lewvan, he even said that they were going to keep bringing forward issue after issue in the hope that Canadians would eventually get to the point where they say they do not trust the government. That really stuck with me because it highlighted what the Conservative objective and agenda is here. It is not to do their job.

The Conservatives' job as Her Majesty's loyal opposition, as they like to call themselves, is to make—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Again, it is not yet time for questions and comments. I would ask members to respect the fact that there is someone else who has the floor who has been recognized. If they wish to be recognized, they can either wait for questions and comments, or wait for the next time I call for debate.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I say that they like to call themselves that because they want to assume the role, but they do not know how to do it. It is a pretty basics politics 101 course to figure out what the job of the opposition is. It is not to put up roadblocks and to prevent things from coming through.

There was another really interesting part that came out of the previous debate with the member for Regina—Lewvan. When I asked him if it was not his job to make policy better and said that all he was doing was putting up roadblocks to stop legislation from getting through, his response to that was that they could not let bad legislation go through. That is not how it works.

They are entitled to their opinion on the legislation. They are entitled to put forward their ideas. They are entitled to try to make the legislation better, but at the end of the day, the way that democracy works is that, if the majority does not agree with them, then we move on. That is how democracy works. However, the Conservatives do not know what the role is in the House. Their role is not to be obstructionist and to put up a roadblock in front of every single issue. Their role is to come forward and to propose ideas, and to try to convince others, a majority in the House, that their idea is better, and to advance that objective.

As I said earlier, the irony here is that the issue we are talking about right now, Bill C-18, the one the government has tabled to actually discuss, the one the Conservatives keep filibustering, is an issue that they ran on in the election. It is an issue that they support. Even the issues the Conservatives support, they are refusing to let move through.

I find it extremely—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It being 7:36 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The hon. member will have eight minutes the next time this matter is before the House.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C‑18, An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the amendment.

Online News Act

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The question is on the amendment.

Shall I dispense?

[An hon. member]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

[Chair read text of amendment to House]

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the amendment be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

The hon. House leader of the official opposition.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Madam Speaker, that is correct. I am the House leader, and I request a recorded division.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Pursuant to order made on Thursday, November 25, 2021, the recorded division stands deferred until Tuesday, May 31, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Correctional Service Canada

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Speaker, I rise to follow up on a question I raised earlier this month with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety. I asked her why she had contradicted her minister on the subject of the closure of the slaughterhouse or abattoir at the Joyceville penitentiary. She made no attempt whatsoever to actually answer this question, so here we are again this evening.

Let me explain where the contradiction lies between the responses given by the parliamentary secretary and her minister. It starts with the minister's response on April 8 to a question posed by the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, who said:

...the prison farm in Joyceville, Ontario, is also the home to a provincially inspected abattoir that serves eastern Ontario farmers.... The facility operator will be retiring....

Will the Minister of Public Safety offer that licence to another operator, or will the abattoir be closed?

To which the minister responded inter alia, “my hon. colleague raises a specific issue with regard to licensing. We are engaging with him, and we will continue to do so.”

By contrast, the parliamentary secretary told the House this on May 18, “I have been there”, in other words, to Joyceville, “and to my knowledge, there is no slaughterhouse.”

In question period on May 20, two days later, I pointed out that the parliamentary secretary's comment, “would appear to contradict the response given on April 8...by her minister, who stated that the existing slaughterhouse would remain in operation.” At the least, it was a matter of dialogue.

I then asked the parliamentary secretary this question: “Has the parliamentary secretary just announced that the slaughterhouse has been shut down and will not be reopened?” After all, that is what she appears to be saying.

The parliamentary secretary responded to this by saying, first, that I have only just started asking questions on this issue recently, second, that the Harper government was mean-spirited on corrections issues and, third, that the rehabilitation of prisoners is good for the community. All of that is no doubt very important information, but none of this helps us to learn whether the slaughterhouse at Joyceville has shut down and will not be reopened, which was the question.

Therefore, I will ask it again, but this time I will use the words employed by my colleague from Leeds—Grenville back in April. Will the Minister of Public Safety offer the licence at the Joyceville penitentiary to another operator or will the abattoir be kept permanently closed?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank both you and the member opposite for the opportunity to speak about this important issue. This evening, I wish to address a few points that have been made recently in the House pertaining to the penitentiary agricultural program, commonly known as the prison farms.

To start with an issue that has been brought up a number of times, I will reiterate, first, that at this time, Correctional Service Canada does not possess any goats, and there are no contracts for the sale of goat milk.

Second, after the last exchange with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, she asked for more information on the rehabilitative nature of the employment programs run by Correctional Service Canada. She was informed that research undertaken by Correctional Service Canada, dating back to at least 2014, demonstrated rehabilitative effects and positive reintegration outcomes for offenders who participated in these programs, as they were able to develop meaningful skill sets. These findings also noted that offenders who were able to find employment in the community were less likely to reoffend. The statistics are very clear. In fact, offenders who find jobs in the community are three times less likely to return to custody for a new offence.

Third, I want to address an allegation that was raised the last time the member opposite spoke during Adjournment Proceedings. The allegation made was that CORCAN is slave labour. I want to be very clear: Offender employment programs operate under the principle of free consent and do not occur under the threat of penalty. In accordance with the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, inmates receive pay for participation in correctional, education and employment programs, which contribute to their rehabilitation and reintegration into the community. An inmate's level of pay is reviewed at least once every six months, and their pay level may be adjusted based on the ability to meet the requirements of each pay level.

I wish to advise the member opposite that throughout the pandemic, Correctional Service Canada also took steps to ensure inmates had more funds on hand to keep in touch with their loved ones. This was done by temporarily waiving food, accommodation and telephone deductions.

These operations are being implemented in accordance with applicable provincial and federal government legislation and practices, and in accordance with industry standards. Canada, as a founding and active member of the International Labour Organization, also continuously works to meet its strict obligations that pertain to prison labour.

I will also address the nature of these operations. CSC continually re-evaluates its operations based on consultation with stakeholders and sustainability.

Lastly, on the issue of the abattoir, offenders who participate in the employment program through on-the-job training in any area do so voluntarily. This includes the abattoir, where inmates can choose to apply to participate in vocational training. This is not mandatory. Each time the lease is up for renewal, CSC considers the options relative to continued operation and does so regularly. It will continue to engage with appropriate community members and stakeholders.

I should remind the member that there are many farmers in his riding, in the riding of Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes and indeed in my riding who rely on this abattoir. Disrupting the operation of it will seriously impact their livelihoods.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Speaker, that is very refreshing. It is actually a substantive answer, unlike the random insults we got from the parliamentary secretary. I appreciate that. I am not sure all the information is correct, but I think the member has answered the question. It sounds like the slaughter facility will remain open. For that, I thank him.

With regard to the comments about slave labour, I have some responses made by inmates to a prisoner feedback form that was circulated. Some 56 responses were received. Inmates were asked about the for-profit model that was being considered for the prison farm. One inmate responded, “Shutting down CORCAN will also shut down federally sponsored slavery.” Another one said, “They presently are slave labour for one company or another. Inmates do not want a for-profit model.”

I will ask the member another question, and I appreciate the fact that he is giving me some substance here. Is it the case that a for-profit model for the prison farm is absolutely off the table?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I would remind the member that he is not to point out that he has a survey. He lifted the survey up as he was speaking. I want to remind him that he can read from the survey, but he cannot point to the survey.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, if the member cherry-picks his data and just goes after one survey response or another survey response, I am pretty sure he can get any answer that he wants. However, if he looks at those survey responses in their totality, he will see that, overwhelmingly, the program has demonstrated that it serves inmates well.

I would encourage him to watch the documentary, much of it filmed in his riding, called Til the Cows Come Home. It was made during the previous Conservative government and is about what they were doing to prison farms that many inmates relied on so heavily. In that documentary, he will also hear testimony from inmates who talk about the positive contribution the program gave to their rehabilitative process.