House of Commons Hansard #87 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-11.

Topics

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Madam Speaker, that was a great presentation.

When we are looking at doing something so significant, I am curious to know why there is a rush. As somebody who comes from a journalism background and who also was an online content creator, I know how important it is to make sure things are done properly.

What would be the ramifications of not rushing it through and making sure it is done well as opposed to done fast?

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Madam Speaker, I guess my immediate response goes back to how one backs up a double-wheeled wagon. The fastest way to back up a double-wheeled wagon is to do it very slowly. Those from a farming background will know that, because if it is rammed through, it will have to be done again. That takes more time and more effort, with more acrimony and things like that.

I would say we need to take the time to do it once and do it right. There have been those opportunities; there just does not seem to be a willingness to address the very thorny issues, the tough ones. Much of this bill is actually supported by all sides of this House. Let us go with those, but let us work at those issues that we do not have agreement on yet, issues that we are all hearing about from our constituents, the concerns around free speech and around the ability to have that not unduly censored or directed.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

Windsor—Tecumseh Ontario

Liberal

Irek Kusmierczyk LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague gave us a lot of food for thought in this chamber.

Some artists are the biggest proponents of free speech and freedom of expression. This bill's legislation is supported by the Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada. It is supported by the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions and by ACTRA and so many other organizations.

Can the hon. member tell us which organizations he has spoken to that have concerns about this particular legislation?

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Madam Speaker, I think the direction to update the Broadcasting Act is supported by all organizations and all sides of this House. That need is clearly understood.

What I have been hearing is that in the process of updating and attempting to gather support to update the bill, there has been overreach. We have seen that too many times. Those are the concerns I am hearing about. I am hearing about the overreach, not the need to update a bill that is 31 years old.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to close debate tonight on motion 16, which I have also entitled the “stop Conservatives from wreaking havoc at the heritage committee” motion.

What we have seen over the course of the last few weeks is Conservatives wreaking havoc at the heritage committee. Bill C-11, as so many speakers have pointed out over the course of the last few weeks of debate in Parliament, would do important things to actually help to foster Canadian content, help to build the industry in Canada and make sure that there is more Canadian employment. There are many aspects of Bill C-11 that are important and that actually would make a difference.

How have Conservatives acted in committee? We saw it. After having an agreement for the equivalent of five weeks of hearings into Bill C-11, we saw the Conservatives systematically obstruct and wreak havoc at committee. They did a number of things, and they are important to put on the record.

First off, when there were witnesses outside—and I will point notably to the chair of the CRTC and also to the Minister of Canadian Heritage, all of whom came to answer questions from members of the committee, and they were often tough questions—what did Conservatives do? They actually blocked them from testifying and answering questions.

Who does this? We are parliamentarians and we are supposed to be asking the tough questions. Conservatives said, “No, we are going to just talk out the clock and refuse to let these people actually come in, testify and answer questions about the bill.”

Weeks ago, about a week and a half ago, the Liberal Party, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP all filed their amendments, yet we saw Conservatives systematically obstruct and wreak havoc within the committee by refusing to actually file the amendments that are to be based on testimony from the witnesses we did hear. I should note that it turned out that the Conservatives finally admitted to actually filing their amendments on Friday. The idea that somehow this was accelerating a process that was unfair to them is simply false; they also tabled their amendments.

We heard from dozens and dozens of witnesses. We also had a whole slew of amendments suggested, and people and organizations also submitted written testimony to the heritage committee. Our job, as members of the heritage committee, is to take all of those suggested amendments, all of that witness testimony and all of the memoirs that were submitted and improve the bill, and it is important to note that the vast majority of witnesses support Bill C-11.

We have not had a single Conservative stand up in the days of debate we have had around Bill C-11 and actually admit that most of the witnesses who came to committee support Bill C-11. Not a single Conservative has admitted to that. That is a problem. There is a question of credibility when we are hearing from witnesses saying that Bill C-11 is necessary and would make a difference, that it would level the playing field between the web giants and help create more Canadian jobs and more Canadian economic prosperity, when not a single Conservative is prepared to admit that most of the testimony has been in Bill C-11's favour. I think that fundamentally undermines their credibility on this issue.

I will say something further about the Conservatives' lack of credibility on this issue: We have had absolutely wacko claims by Conservatives. Members will recall Conservatives saying that somehow Bill C-11 had something to do with the government actually following people on cellphones.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

7:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, the Conservatives who are trying to heckle me now can take a look at Hansard and see that the member for Provencher asked me the question of whether I was concerned about Bill C-11 and the government following people on cellphones. I have Bill C-11 right here on the desk, and there is not a word about cellphones or the government following people on cellphones. Conservatives are inventing things around Bill C-11. Is it because they never read the bill or is it because they believe in deliberate disinformation? Either way, they simply do not have credibility on this bill.

The Conservatives have simply shown themselves not to be a responsible opposition party. They cannot invent things that are not in the bill. They cannot not read the bill and then show up in the House of Commons and simply throw out things that are not true. We have seen on social media how Conservatives have tried to equate this with some kind of censorship.

When Canadians read through the bill, they will see that the intent of Bill C-11 is very clear. It is levelling the playing field with the web giants, ensuring that there are more Canadian jobs, ensuring that we actually have Canadian content, and that we can develop the kind of prosperity in our sectors that we have seen under the traditional Broadcasting Act.

For Conservatives to pretend that there is a wide, wacko number of things that are not in the bill, never were in the bill and are not listed in the bill, and to pretend that has some kind of credibility in connection with the bill, is very rich.

We had Conservatives blocking witnesses who were trying to testify. We had Conservatives filibustering for weeks, refusing to have consideration of the improvements that must necessarily be made, in the opinion of the New Democratic Party and in this corner of the House. We see Bill C-11 as an important step forward, but we have heard testimony from many witnesses who want to see improvements. We have been tabling amendments as we go along and as witnesses have come forward, making sure that the bill actually reflects that important witness testimony and is improved.

Again, Conservatives refused to set any sort of deadline around amendments and refused to put in place a kind of structure around amendments. In this place, there is the incredible work of the legislative clerks that takes days to do. We have the translation facilities that are so important, because as a bilingual country we need to make sure that every document is accurate in English and French. With Conservatives refusing to submit amendments, it meant that work had to take place not in the way that it had for every other party that submitted their amendments a week and a half ago. It meant we were now going to have to cater to the Conservatives and spend a few hours making sure that the Conservative amendments were not mis-drafted and that they were available in both official languages.

The other parties already took care of that. The other parties, being responsible and not having a “the dog ate my homework” approach, actually believed that it was important to get the amendments to the legislative drafters in time and that it was important to make sure the translators, who do such a remarkable job in the House of Commons, actually had the time to put together those translations.

This is another way the Conservatives have been wreaking havoc in the House of Commons, rather than submitting the amendments. Why would they refuse to be responsible and respectful to the workers in this chamber who do such valuable work in drafting legislation and amendments, and in translating them? It shows a profound disrespect. Conservatives have been wreaking havoc in so many ways with a profound disrespect that they have for parliamentary institutions.

Here we are. We finally have an opportunity, as the House of Commons, to call the Conservatives on the Canadian heritage committee to account. These are the same Conservatives who blocked important testimony from witnesses who had a lot to offer: witnesses who should be questioned in some detail about their approach on Bill C-11. These are the same Conservatives who refused to submit amendments, the same Conservatives who blocked additional witnesses and the same Conservatives who have delayed, by weeks, consideration of clause-by-clause that should normally occur once we have heard from witnesses.

The Conservatives have done all of that at the Canadian heritage committee. Now, in the coming minutes, we will be called upon to judge them on their actions. I believe that the majority of the House of Commons will say that the Conservatives were wrong to do that.

The Conservatives, at committee, need to get to work. They need to work to improve the legislation the way the other parties at committee want to do. When the Conservatives get what I can only call condemnation from the House of Commons that they have not been acting appropriately, they have no one to blame but themselves.

It also indicates a bigger problem within the Conservative Party. As we will recall, right after the election, there was one of the culminating moments of this Parliament so far. It is a moment we were all proud of. We had the ban on conversion therapy come forward, and it was passed at all stages unanimously. That was a remarkable victory for common sense and equality. The ban on conversion therapy passed.

After that, there were all kinds of divisions within the Conservative Party, and ultimately, the member for Durham lost his job as leader of the Conservative Party. Since then, the Conservatives have dissolved into factions. I regret this because I know there are moderate MPs in the Conservative Party who I have a lot of respect for. Then there are other Conservative MPs who endorsed the hate and disrespect for democracy that was embodied in the so-called “freedom convoy”.

Right outside this House, there was a so-called “freedom convoy”, which called for the overthrow of a democratically elected government, expressed hate, flew the Nazi emblem and confederate flags, which are disgraceful emblems of hate, yet some of the more extremist Conservative MPs endorsed those aims and the so-called “freedom convoy”. One of them is even running for the leadership of the Conservative Party, the member for Carleton. What does that say about the Conservative Party when we have seen this disintegration of its respect for democratic institutions?

Again, I note that there are moderate Conservative MPs who do respect democracy. I think their voices, tragically, have been muted within the Conservative caucus, but when Conservative MPs, including the interim leader of the Conservative Party, endorse the aims of the so-called “freedom convoy”, it should cause all of us to question what the direction of the Conservative Party really is. It was not a high point for the Conservative Party. Subsequently, we saw the concerns around the vandalism and violence with the so-called “freedom convoy”. It is simply not anything that any member of Parliament should be endorsing.

The aim that we have seen over the last few months seems to be that the Conservative Party is essentially refusing to let any legislation through. I have said before, and it bears repeating, that there are two block parties in the House of Commons: the Bloc Québécois and the block-everything party. The block-everything party is the Conservative Party, which has simply refused to let any legislation through. That has included important legislation, for example, that would provide supports to farmers and teachers. The Conservatives blocked it.

There was the budget implementation act, which the NDP was proud to have negotiated through confidence and supply. For the first time, an adequate and substantial investment in affordable housing was going to be made to meet a housing crisis that has been so hard on so many Canadians. The NDP and the member for Burnaby South, the leader of the NDP, negotiated that. For the first time in decades, we would see, coming down the pipeline, enough investments in affordable housing to create tens of thousands of affordable housing units, but they would not be based on market prices.

In my part of the country, New Westminster—Burnaby, a one-bedroom apartment can be $2,000. That is not something that most people in Burnaby or New Westminster can afford, but when there is affordable housing based on 30% of people's incomes, then it become affordable. Then, regardless of people's income category, they can afford to have a roof over the heads and put food on the table. This is all a result of the confidence and supply agreement.

As well, the national dental care plan, for the first year, would be put into place for all children 12 years of age and under. We know that good dental care early in life allows for better dental care later in life as well.

As the Speaker would know, because I know how closely she is tied to her constituency, people in our country, millions of them, have never had access to dental care. We can see what that does to their teeth over the course of years without access to dental care. I have seen constituents whose teeth are literally rotting out of their mouth. Now for the first time, over the next couple of years, thanks to the NDP push and the confidence and supply agreement, we are going to see national dental care.

Dental care for those 12 and under and housing were very much part of the budget implementation act, yet the Conservatives blocked them as well. I say that sadly because there is no doubt this would make a difference in people's lives, but the “block everything party” just blocks by reflex. It just wants to block every piece of legislation. That makes no sense when Canadians need the supports in the legislation before the House.

The Conservatives' refusal to accept, in this case, the ability of the heritage committee to put in place and improve Bill C-11 and add the amendments that we have heard from many witnesses will make the bill better, and the Conservatives' refusal to allow amendments to be tabled and allow a discussion to be held, have brought us to tonight and Motion No. 16, which I will again cite as a motion to stop the Conservatives from wreaking havoc at the heritage committee. It will allow us to finally improve Bill C-11, after hearing from witnesses and after weeks of delay due to the Conservatives blocking everything. It will make Bill C-11 better, and make it, in a very real sense, a bill that creates more Canadian jobs, levels the playing field for Canadians against the web giants and ensures that we will have a vital broadcasting industry for years to come that will tell Canadian stories to Canadians.

With that, I will conclude my speech. It is now eight o'clock, and I believe the bells will be ringing and soon we will be called to vote. I will be voting yes on Motion No. 16.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It being 8 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of Government Business No. 16 now before the House.

The question is on the amendment. Shall I dispense?

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

[Chair read text of amendment to House]

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the amendment be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

The hon. deputy House leader.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8 p.m.

Liberal

Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC

Madam Speaker, I request a recorded division.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8:30 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The question is on the amendment. Shall I dispense?

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8:30 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

[Chair read text of amendment to House]

(The House divided on the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #149

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8:45 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I declare the amendment rejected.

The next question is on the main motion.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

The official opposition House leader.

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like a recorded division.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #150

Government Business No. 16—Proceedings on Bill C‑11Government Orders

9 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I declare the motion carried.

It being 9 p.m., this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 9 p.m.)