House of Commons Hansard #232 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was hamas.

Topics

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Mr. Speaker, first of all, on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, I would like to extend our condolences to all Quebeckers and Canadians who have lost loved ones in the Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel. I would also like to extend our condolences to all Israelis who are going through an unspeakably difficult situation, as well as to all the innocent civilians in Gaza whose suffering is just as tragic.

What we do must be first and foremost humane, and then we must aim for a humanitarian approach, for compassion and understanding. It is important to put ourselves in the same situation. Let us close our eyes for a few seconds and imagine if we or our loved ones were in that situation. The aim must be to recognize and take action to defend the right to security that belongs to every human being.

In the past, many of us, including the Bloc Québécois, have been critical of Israel's policies. Nevertheless, we all witnessed, disbelieving at first, the appalling violence of the Hamas attack. We condemned it for what it is: terrorism. Imagine for a moment that we are Belgians, and a terrorist inspired by the Islamic State claimed responsibility for an attack that killed at least two people in the last few hours. This attack was likely fuelled by hateful words and calls to violence uttered by Hamas leaders and repeated in the streets of the cities and capitals of major western states. We must ask ourselves whether our response to the actively hateful propaganda and calls to violence is adequate. We must ask ourselves whether the means we have are sufficient in the face of this newly defined reality.

Since Israel was not going to remain exposed to such a threat, since Israel could not rely on the Palestinian Authority, and since Hamas has to be eliminated if there is to be any hope of lasting peace in the region, Tsahal is going to enter the Gaza Strip. The massing of Israeli troops at the Gaza border is on hold right now. I want to believe that one of the reasons for this is to allow the arrival of humanitarian relief that Palestinian civilians in Gaza are waiting and hoping for; they need it. Similarly, it is hoped that the road leading to the relative safety of Egypt will be opened now, in the next few hours.

Like the other leaders, I want to stress the need not to confuse Hamas with the Palestinian civilians it is using to carry out its terrible plan. A Palestinian family and a Quebec family are the same. Hamas has revealed the full darkness of its intentions. Its members do not want peace for Palestinian civilians, they want war for everyone; meanwhile, Tehran is smiling.

Hatred is a profound evil that is rooted in and fuelled by a sometimes twisted reading of history. Hatred in Quebec and in Canada is, and must be, condemned.

Similarly, Canada must not remain on the sidelines of major movements and must ask to join its allies in considering and coordinating a western strategy to put a quick end to the hostilities and ensure that the creature called Hamas never raises its ugly head again.

If Canada joins the group of five countries that we talked about a bit earlier, namely, the United States, which took the initiative, the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Germany, it would likely mean that Quebeckers and Canadians in Israel could be evacuated more quickly. It would also likely improve the chances of freeing Canadian hostages. Canada could more effectively add its voice to the demands of the United States, Europe and the UN for an immediate humanitarian response.

I would also once again invite the Prime Minister to meet with the leaders of all parties at a time suitable to them so that we can be privately informed, with all due respect for confidentiality, of any developments in this crisis, which is affecting so many of our citizens.

In the intervening period, which we hope will be short, we stand in solidarity with the victims of this unspeakable violence. Our heartfelt compassion, and sometimes even our tears, attest to our deep sorrow.

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, New Democrats are devastated by the brutal massacre and terrorist attack by Hamas, that, on October 7, killed over 1,300 Israeli civilians, including women, children and the elderly. Among those victims were Canadians, members of our communities. The accounts of what was done to Israelis in this attack, including what was done to children, horrifies every one of us.

We condemn Hamas and these terrorist attacks that have caused so much pain to the Jewish community globally and in Canada. This begs the question of what Canada has done in the past few years to stop arms from going into the hands of Hamas. Hamas's actions constitute heinous violations of international law and international crimes for which it must be held accountable.

I want to express my profound sadness and anger at the rising anti-Semitism and anti-Palestinian racism that we are seeing globally, including in Canada. The rising anti-Semitism is causing Canadian Jews to keep their children home from school. Rising anti-Palestinian racism took the life of a six-year-old in Chicago yesterday.

Canadians from both of these communities are distraught, and I think the federal government could do more to increase the security across places of worship, something many communities have called for, for years.

We are in a very dark time and I am urging all members of this House to take care to understand how deeply communities are hurting. I grieve with Canadians who have lost loved ones and who are afraid for their families. I stand with the families of hostages and call for their immediate release.

As this crisis worsens, I also want us to pay attention to the unfolding humanitarian nightmare in Gaza. I want to state clearly that international law obligations are not reciprocal. One war crime does not excuse another. Retribution is not justice. Retribution does not bring peace.

I want members of this House to know that international law was not written by pacifists. The laws of war were written by governments whose militaries had suffered extraordinary losses, who had seen civilians massacred and who had experienced the horrors of war.

International law, which Canada has promised to uphold, sets limits on military actions, state and non-state, and what those countries can do in war. It seeks to protect civilians, all civilians.

David Miliband, the head of the International Rescue Committee, said yesterday, “International Humanitarian Law is the way that previous generations have learnt to mitigate the worst of war”. It is a very low bar, but this low bar applies to everyone.

We are, unfortunately, watching violations of international law in Gaza. It is a siege with no water, no electricity and no food. Entire communities have been destroyed. Entire families have been wiped out. Over 1,000 children have been killed. Hospitals have been bombed and humanitarian aid workers killed. United Nations independent experts have said this amounts to collective punishment.

The former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno Ocampo, said, “A full blockade of Gaza could be considered a crime against humanity and a genocide.”

This morning, Defence for Children International confirmed more than 1,030 children in Gaza have been killed by Israeli forces since October 7. That is one child every 16 minutes.

We are now reading reports that Hamas is stealing what little humanitarian aid is available for civilians. Let us be clear: Hamas is making already vulnerable Palestinians suffer further in this siege. Palestinians have been suffering from Hamas's brutality, as well as the absence of real democratic Palestinian leadership. With the dangerous influence of external states like Iran, this has made things worse.

However, it does not absolve Israel of its obligations to protect civilians; nor does it absolve Canada of its obligations to call out violations to international law when they occur.

United Nations relief chief Martin Griffiths said yesterday, “The past week has been a test for humanity, and humanity is failing.” The forcible transfer of a million people from their homes is not an evacuation; it is illegal. There are babies in incubators unable to be relocated and medical staff refusing to abandon these babies, knowing that they may die in the coming days. Gazans are afraid to be pushed into Egypt because they do not know if they will be allowed back. This is a humanitarian and political disaster of enormous proportions and Canada is silent.

Where is the government in condemning this siege, this forcible transfer, this humanitarian crisis? The minister has spoken to his Israeli counterparts. The Prime Minister has spoken to the leader of Israel to convey Canada's support. However, in any of those conversations has Canada told Israeli officials that this scale of revenge, these clear violations of law, are unacceptable to Canadians?

So many Israelis are speaking out against Israel's actions in Gaza. Survivors of the Hamas terrorist attack are asking for peace. They are saying “not in our name”. They are asking for the release of hostages, including Canadians. Maoz Inon, whose parents were murdered by Hamas said:

I am not crying for my parents; I am crying for those who are going to lose their life in this war. We must stop the war. ...we are not seeking revenge. Revenge will just lead to more suffering and to more [tragedies].

Yonatan, the son of Canadian hostage Vivian Silver, said, “She would be mortified [by the attack on Gaza]... because you can't cure killed babies with more dead babies. We need peace.”

Vivian Silver is a member of Women Wage Peace. She has spent years working for peace and justice in Israel and Palestine. Yesterday, Women Wage Peace made the following comments:

We hear words of revenge all the time – [we hear] “all restraints have been removed”, “we will wipe out Gaza”.... But one cannot resolve one injustice with another injustice.

We in this House need to be thinking of both the short-term humanitarian crisis and also the long term. New Democrats for decades have called for an end to the occupation and for a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians. This year has already been brutal for all in the region before the terrorist attacks and before this new siege of Gaza. Now we are moments away from a broader war that could engulf the entire region. We are moments away from an alarming and long-term refugee crisis. We are further from peace than we have ever been. We speak of ending the occupation, but we are so far away from a political solution and the Liberal government is failing to step up. It is failing to step up for international law, for Israelis and for Palestinians.

This is the moment to call for calm. We are witnessing an increase of attacks on Palestinians in Jerusalem and in the West Bank by settlers and Israeli security. We have seen reports of abuses of Israeli families who are demanding that the leadership of the Israeli government put the hostages first. People are divided. People are hurting.

The only solution is a political solution. There is no military solution to this conflict. I am begging the government to realize that what its members say now matters. It matters so much and they must call for a ceasefire. Canada must support international justice efforts by the ICJ and the ICC to investigate war crimes by all military actors in Palestine. All war crimes by all parties in this conflict must be prosecuted. Canada must call for a ceasefire and an end to the forcible transfer of civilians.

I want to end by thanking all Israelis and Palestinians working to preserve life: medical workers, humanitarians, human rights advocates, those calling for peace, ordinary people doing what they can in the face of such horror. They are the light in this darkness. We see them and we stand with them.

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Greg Fergus

I see that the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands is raising her hand. Would this be on a point of order to request consent of the House to reply to the statement?

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, it would be to state on the record the solidarity of members in this place, from all different parties, to condemn Hamas, and to make a very short statement.

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Greg Fergus

All those opposed to the hon. member's moving the motion will please say nay.

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West BankRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Procedure and House AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 50th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

The committee advises that pursuant to Standing Order 91.1(2), the Subcommittee on Private Members' Business met to consider the items added to the order of precedence on Wednesday, September 20, 2023, as well as the order for the second reading of private members' public bills originating in the Senate and recommended that the items listed herein, which it has determined should not be designated non-votable, be considered by the House.

Foreign AffairsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to present e-petition 4395, signed by over 2,400 Canadians. They request that the government reconsider the proposed foreign influence transparency registry. They believe that this will not meaningfully address the intimidation of Canadians and other kinds of foreign interference, and this goes well beyond.

Human RightsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

October 16th, 2023 / 4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I have a number of petitions to present to the House today.

The first is in support of my private member's bill, Bill C-257. The petitioners raise concern about the problem of political discrimination in Canada. They note that Canadians can face discrimination on the basis of their political beliefs and that this limits free debate and exchange of ideas. Bill C-257 would add political belief and activity as prohibited grounds of discrimination in the Canadian Human Rights Act.

The petitioners ask the House to support Bill C-257 and to defend the rights of Canadians to peacefully express their political opinions.

Women's SheltersPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the second petition that I am tabling raises concern about cuts that the government is making to women's shelters. The petitioners note that women's shelters are, sadly, seeing increased demand. The high cost of living and the housing crisis have made it harder for women and children fleeing a violent home to find a safe place to live. They note that at a time when the Liberal government is dramatically increasing spending on bureaucracy and consultants, it is cutting $145 million of funding for women's shelters.

Therefore, the petitioners call on the Government of Canada to restore funding that has been cut for women's shelters.

HealthPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the next petition I am tabling responds to grave concerns that I have heard from many of my constituents about changes that the government has made around the regulation and costs of natural health products. The petitioners say that Liberals are threatening access to natural health products through new rules that will mean higher costs and fewer products available on store shelves. New so-called cost recovery provisions would impose massive costs on all consumers of natural health products and undermine access for Canadians who rely on these products.

The petitioners also note that provisions in the latest Liberal omnibus budget have given the government substantial new arbitrary powers around the regulation of natural health products, and they call on the Government of Canada to reverse the changes made in the latest Liberal budget regarding natural health products.

Charitable OrganizationsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the final petition I will table today raises concerns about the politicization of charitable status determination by the Liberal government, proposals around applying a values test to charitable status determination and having discrimination on the basis of values associated with charitable status determination. Petitioners note the Liberals signalled in their last election platform a plan to go down this road of politicizing charitable status.

Petitioners call on the House of Commons to protect and preserve the application of charitable status rules on a politically and ideologically neutral basis, without discrimination on the basis of political or religious values and without the imposition of another values test, and to affirm the right of all Canadians to freedom of expression.

ArriveCAN AppPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, I am here to present a petition from Canadians from across the country who want a permanent end to the ArriveCAN app and the COVID mandates. Currently, the government has only suspended most of these mandates, but the petitioners are calling for the government to permanently suspend the ArriveCAN app.

FirearmsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, the next petition is from Canadians from across the country who are concerned about the health and safety of Canadians. They support the health and safety of Canadian firearms owners. The petitioners recognize the importance of owning firearms and that firearms are a way of life in Canada, but they are concerned about the damaging noise levels of firearms and the need for noise reduction. These petitioners acknowledge that sound moderators are the only universally recognized device to do such a thing, but they are criminally prohibited in Canada.

Moreover, the majority of G7 nations around the world allow these things for hunting and sport shooting, for reduced noise pollution. Petitioners are calling on the Government of Canada to allow legal firearm owners to purchase these things and use them for all legal hunting and sport shooting activities.

PornographyPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, the next petition is from petitioners across the country who are concerned about how easy it is for young people to access sexually explicit material online, including violent and degrading sexually explicit material. The petitioners comment on how this is an important public health and public safety concern.

Petitioners note the significant proportion of commercially accessed sexually explicit material has no age verification software. Moreover, age verification software can ascertain users without breaching their privacy rights. Petitioners note many serious harms associated with sexually explicit material, including the development of addiction, the development of attitudes favourable to sexual violence and harassment of women.

As such, the petitioners are calling on the Government of Canada and the House to pass Bill S-210, the protecting young persons from exposure to pornography act.

Religious FreedomPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, the next petition is from petitioners from across the country who have increasing concerns about the human rights protections in India. The petitioners say that the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom notes that there seem to be various actors supporting and enforcing sectarian policies in India.

The petitioners state that Christians in India are being targeted by extremists vandalizing their churches, attacking church workers and threatening and humiliating their congregations. The petitioners say that crimes against the Dalit groups, including Dalit women and girls, are increasing. Petitioners also say that Indian Muslims are at risk of genocide, assault and sexual violence.

The petitioners ask for the Government of Canada to ensure that all trade deals with India are premised on mandatory human rights provisions, that extremists are sanctioned and that the government promotes a respectful human rights dialogue between Canada and India.

International StudentsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Madam Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on behalf of Bangladeshi students in Canada. Bangladeshi students often face long wait times to come to Canada to be allowed to study.

Canada has a program called the student direct stream, or SDS, which is a method that allows certain countries to have much quicker processing times to allow their students to come to Canada to study. This is something the petitioners are calling for. They would really like to see Bangladesh included in that program of student direct stream, because it would allow its students to come to Canada more easily. Of course, they add value to our country by studying here, working here and doing other things after they have studied. Often, many of them are waiting for many years, so the petitioners are calling for the government to include Bangladesh in the student direct stream in a very timely manner.

Criminal CodePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Madam Speaker, I am presenting a petition from individuals who have brought forward concerns that continue to come across my desk. They indicate it is well established that the risk of violence against women increases when they are pregnant. Currently, the injury or death of preborn children as victims of crime is not considered aggravating circumstances for sentencing purposes in the Criminal Code of Canada.

They indicate that Canada has no abortion law, which is true, and that this legal void is so extreme that it does not even recognize preborn children as victims of violent crimes when they are still within their mother. Justice requires that an attacker who abuses a pregnant woman and her preborn child be sentenced accordingly and that the sentence should match the crime.

Petitioners call upon the House of Commons to designate the abuse of a pregnant woman and/or the infliction of harm or death on a preborn child as aggravating circumstances for sentencing purposes in the Criminal Code.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Is that agreed?

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper QuestionPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. Let me begin by emphasizing that I have deep respect for the Speaker's office and for parliamentary procedure. Every point contained herein is made out of a desire to uphold the rules of Parliament and to bolster public faith in Canada's democratic institutions.

With that said, I am rising today on a question of privilege concerning the disclosure outside of the House, by the Speaker's office, of your decision to recuse yourself from the pending ruling on the question of privilege which I had raised before Thanksgiving. It is an established convention that the House has the first right to information concerning certain House of Commons business, such as the content of bills and committee reports presented to the House, failure of which is a breach of the House's privileges. It will be my argument that this situation is equivalent to one of those cases.

While the events in question arose as a consequence of my previous question of privilege, this disclosure outside the House is, I believe, a separate and discrete incident giving rise to a separate and discrete question of privilege and requiring a separate decision on its own merits. In my original question of privilege, I argued that it is both inappropriate and impossible for a Speaker to recuse themself from ruling on a question of privilege in which they have some involvement. That involvement, of course, turned on your signature, Mr. Speaker, as parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister, which understated the cost to taxpayers of the Prime Minister's Montana vacation this spring by over $200,000. I argued that, in circumstances where the Speaker has some involvement in the matter, the only appropriate recourse available is for the House itself to exercise the Speaker's screening function on a question of privilege as part and parcel of its deliberations on a privilege motion.

I would incorporate the same position and argument into the present question of privilege, where responsibility for the disclosure has been attributed to your office. In short, I believe that you also, Mr. Speaker, must refer this matter to the House.

As for the facts of this matter, on the afternoon of Friday, October 6, you emailed me to inform me that “as of early this morning”, you had recused yourself from my original question of privilege. What might have been considered, possibly, a personal and confidential heads-up about a forthcoming statement you would make to the House, turned out not to be. Despite your decision having been made in the morning, no announcement of this was made in the House.

Further, almost immediately after I received your email, which appeared above a signature block identifying you as the parliamentary secretary to the President of the Treasury Board and the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Health, I noticed that the news of your recusal was published on Twitter, or X, and then on a Substack blog entitled Political Watchdog, both purportedly run by a teenager named Nolan Stoqua. The Substack posting included the following comment: “The Speaker's office confirmed to Political Watchdog that the Speaker...will recuse himself from ruling on the Member for Calgary Nose Hill's question of privilege. The Speaker has asked that the Deputy Speaker consider the matter and determine the next steps, says the Speaker's office.”

The House sat that Friday, yet you did not make a statement about this so-called recusal. The Deputy Speaker, who presided over most of the day's sitting, similarly did not make any statement on your behalf before the House adjourned for Thanksgiving. The first time that members of the House would have officially learnt of this significant development was via a teenager's Twitter feed. This, I respectfully submit, raises serious questions about whether the privileges of the House may have been breached.

House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, at page 81, explains that:

There are, however, other affronts against the dignity and authority of Parliament which may not fall within...the specifically defined privileges. Thus, the House also claims the right to punish, as a contempt, any action which, though not a breach of a specific privilege...is an offence against the authority or dignity of the House....In that sense, all breaches of privilege are contempts of the House, but not all contempts are necessarily breaches of privilege.

...the House of Commons enjoys very wide latitude in maintaining its dignity and authority through its exercise of contempt power....In other words, the House may...consider any misconduct to be contempt and may deal with it accordingly. This area of parliamentary law is therefore extremely fluid and most valuable for the Commons to be able to meet novel situations.

Continuing at page 84, it reads, “By far, most of the cases of privilege [raised in the] House relate to matters of contempt challenging the perceived authority and dignity of Parliament and its Members.”

The footnote which follows, footnote 125, points to the first in a series of precedents which I believe are most instructive in the present circumstances:

For example, in 2001, a question of privilege was raised regarding a briefing the Department of Justice held for members of the media on a bill not yet introduced in the House, while denying Members access to the same information. Speaker Milliken ruled that the provision of information concerning legislation to the media without any effective measures to secure the rights of the House constituted a prima facie case of contempt.

While it is understood practice now that the contents of bills that are on notice must not be disclosed before introduction in the House, something which Speaker Regan described on June 8, 2017, at page 12,320 of the debates as “one of our oldest conventions”, it was nonetheless a novel situation when Speaker Milliken gave his ruling.

Just as the 2001 case would not have appeared in House of Commons Procedure and Practice, first edition, often known as “Marleau and Montpetit”, we will not find in Bosc and Gagnon any precedent concerning the matter I am raising today, but that is not a barrier to proceeding.

In reaching his landmark ruling, Speaker Milliken said, on March 19, 2001, at page 1,840 of the Debates:

with respect to material to be placed before parliament, the House must take precedence...The convention of the confidentiality of bills on notice is necessary, not only so that members themselves may be well informed, but also because of the pre-eminent rule which the House plays and must play in the legislative affairs of the nation.

Thus, the issue of denying to members information that they need to do their work has been the key consideration for the Chair in reviewing this particular question of privilege. To deny to members information concerning business that is about to come before the House, while at the same time providing such information to media that will likely be questioning members about that business, is a situation that the Chair cannot condone.

The matter was then referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, which subsequently concluded in its 14th report in the first session of the 37th Parliament, “Such an action impedes, obstructs, and disadvantages Members of Parliament in carrying out their parliamentary functions. In all of these circumstances, the Committee has come to the inescapable conclusion that the privileges of the House [of Commons] and of its Members have been breached in this case.”

Just as the House has a pre-eminent position in the legislative affairs of the nation, it holds no lesser place when it comes to the law of parliamentary privilege. Bosc and Gagnon remind us, at page 76, “Matters that fall within parliamentary privilege are for the House alone to decide.”

The procedure and House affairs committee added, at page 3 of its 42nd report in the first session of the 41st Parliament, “Parliament is the sole judge of the appropriateness of the exercise of any of its privileges.” The House concurred in this report and its view, which I quoted, on December 2, 2013.

The Supreme Court of Canada shares the view at paragraph 9 of its unanimous 2005 Vaid decision: “In other words, within categories of privilege, Parliament is the judge of the occasion and manner of its exercise and such exercise is not reviewable by the courts”.

To hold such a place in our constitutional order is significant and must be treated with great respect. That, I would argue, means the House itself must be the first recipient of rulings and decisions related to its privileges, not outside media or teenagers' blogs.

As for context of the role the House holds, Bosc and Gagnon note, at page 62, “Parliamentary privileges were first claimed centuries ago when the English House of Commons was struggling to establish a distinct role for itself within Parliament. In the earliest days, Parliament functioned more as a court than as a legislature, and the initial claims to some of these privileges were originally made in this context.”

Erskine May, 25th edition, paragraph 12.1, adds, “The power to punish for contempt or breach of privilege has been judicially considered to be inherent in each House of Parliament not as a necessary incident of the authority and functions of a legislature (as might be argued in respect of certain privileges) but by virtue of their descent from the undivided High Court of Parliament and in right of the lex et consuetudo parliamenti.”

Put another way, when considering matters of privilege, the House is cloaked with the vestments of a court. In a court of law, one would imagine the decision of a judge, who has been asked to make certain decisions, not being provided to the parties equally and in public, but instead passed to a teenaged blogger, to be a scoop from a court clerk. However, that is effectively what happened before Thanksgiving when the “Speaker's office” provided a statement to a person ostensibly named Nolan Stoqua.

Via these actions, I believe the House's pre-eminent place in being the sole judge of its own privileges has been breached. The dignity and authority of the House has been negatively affected by this.

To further this point, colleagues who had indicated that they had intended to come back to the House to make interventions on my original question of privilege and my call for your referral of the matter to the House were effectively denied the opportunity to do so.

Indeed, my colleague from New Westminster—Burnaby, the New Democratic Party's House leader, raised similar concerns in his intervention about this matter earlier today. He said that, even more frustrating, was the fact that the office confirmed this decision to a member of the media, in the case, an unverified blogger, and then did not inform the House as a whole or even the House leaders group.

He went on to say:

As the House of Commons Procedure and Practice states:

The Speaker is the servant, neither of any part of the House nor of any majority in the House, but of the entire institution....

He continued:

The responsibility of the Speaker is to the institution of Parliament and to the House of Commons as a whole, not to an individual member who raises a point and not to reporters who may be interested in the decisions taken by the Speaker. Providing more information to the media than to Parliament on matters that are fundamentally parliamentary in nature is really not acceptable.

In discussing how Speakers' rulings are delivered, House of Commons Procedure and Practice, our bible, further states:

Sometimes, a ruling is delivered quickly and with a minimum of explanation. At other times, circumstances do not permit an immediate ruling. The Speaker may allow discussion of the point of order before he or she comes to a decision. The Speaker might also reserve his or her decision on a matter, returning to the House at a later time to deliver the ruling.

He concluded:

It is clear that rulings are meant to be made in the House. There is no precedent for a Speaker doing otherwise, and the rule book does not contemplate otherwise.

I agree with my colleague from the NDP on this point. It should be considered in the deliberations on this potential breach of privilege.

I believe the appropriate course of action to determine whether a prima facie case of privilege exists when the Speaker has a conflict of interest, as when the Speaker's office is said to be at the heart of the actions in concern, is to simply turn the matter over to the House. An appropriate analogy lies, I would submit, in the circumstances of a chair of a committee when a question of privilege is being raised in that venue. Bosc and Gagnon elaborate on page 1060, stating:

The Chair of a committee does not have the power to rule on questions of privilege...If a member wishes to raise a question of privilege during a committee meeting, or an incident arises in connection with the committee’s proceedings that may constitute a breach of privilege, the committee Chair allows the member to explain the situation. The Chair then determines whether the question raised in fact relates to parliamentary privilege. If the Chair determines that the question does relate to parliamentary privilege, the committee may then consider presenting a report on the question to the House.

Accordingly, in closing, I believe the correct course of action on this matter is twofold: first, for you to refer this matter to the House for deliberation, given your personal involvement and your office's involvement in this matter; and, second, should the House agree with me that my concerns raised today in this new question of privilege constitute a breach, the matter can be referred to the appropriate committee to determine the appropriate remedy.

As such, I am prepared to move the motion.

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper QuestionPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I thank the member for her statement. Of course, we will look at that statement closely.

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper QuestionPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, I just want to add my voice in support of the comments made and the point raised by my colleague in the official opposition.

I will endeavour to not repeat what she has so eloquently put before the House, but I want to stress a couple of points. The first is that there is definitely precedence on things, such as legislation being leaked, constituting a breach of privilege. That has been well established. My colleague very skilfully underlined the fact that that was a new precedent at the time Speaker Milliken made his ruling.

This is an unprecedented situation, to find ourselves in this part of the life cycle of our Parliament, where the Speaker's position has now been filled by someone who was a parliamentary secretary right up until the moment of the Speaker election. It is new territory for parliamentarians.

The fact that the Speaker has had to rule on something that he himself was implicated in, in his previous position, is unprecedented. That is why our suggestion was that the proper way of recusing himself would be to put it to the House to decide.

It is important for parliamentarians to remember that the Speaker does not, formally, rule that a breach or a contempt has taken place. All the Speaker does is act as a filter, to say that a situation, on its face, or prima facie, rises to the level that we set aside all other business of the House to allow members themselves, and the House itself, to determine whether or not there is a breach or a contempt.

Our suggestion was that putting it to the House and removing the Speaker from that filtering position would not set a precedent in the case of the Order Paper question that prompted the original question. It would not bind future Speakers to rule that incomplete answers would necessarily, on their own, rise to that level. It would just say that, in this specific case, because of the Speaker's involvement in his prior role, the Speaker would remove himself from that filtering role.

The decision that was made today by the Speaker to recuse himself by way of allowing or empowering the Deputy Speaker to make the ruling was not something that the opposition had considered before the last break week. We had proposed an alternative. The Speaker had not yet ruled on that.

To find out by way of a public blog that that is the course of action that the Speaker is taking rises to the level of raising this question of privilege here today.

It also does not address the points that we made about the Speaker's conflict on the original point. It is true that the Speaker did underline for the House this morning that the Deputy Speaker is selected by the House. That is true. There is a motion that is put forward to the House and the House agrees with it, but that motion is proposed by the Speaker.

The Speaker is the one who consults with other party leaders and proposes that name to the House. The Deputy Speaker is not fully removed from, at the very least, that perception of a conflict of interest. Having been in the roles of both the Deputy Speaker and the Speaker, I can also speak to the dynamic way that the Deputy Speaker works with the Speaker. It is very clear that the Speaker is at the top of the list for chair occupants, and that deputies and assistant deputies are his or her subordinates.

That is why the statement by the Speaker this morning still does not address that aspect of the conflict. I would also pose the question to the Chair, because this decision was made on the Friday, not in the House but through what seems to be some kind of a political blogger, and that parliamentarians have not had the opportunity to raise this concern about even having the Deputy Speaker make this decision, we still believe that there is a point there that needs to be addressed.

I just want to stress that I believe the best way to move forward on this is to have the Speaker fully recuse himself by not delegating it to a Chair occupant, not delegating this question to his deputy, but by just stepping back and saying that he would let the House decide this one because he is not in a position to act as that filter.

I do not think it is too late. I understand the Speaker did make that statement this morning. I would urge him to look at the intervention by my colleague, my remarks and comments by the House leader for the New Democratic Party, and come back to the House with the tidiest solution that keeps the Speaker, as an individual and his entire office, out of the appearance, or even the suggestion, of a conflict of interest by putting it to the House to decide.

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper QuestionPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I appreciate the intervention from the hon. member.