Debates of Oct. 16th, 2023

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, nine days ago we woke up to the news of the brutal terrorist attack by Hamas on Israelis. Today we have learned that the fifth Canadian is among the victims of Hamas. Netta Epstein, who was just 21 years old, died while trying to protect his girlfriend by jumping on top of a grenade. He saved her life by sacrificing his own. May his memory and the memories of all those killed be a blessing.

Like many of us in this chamber, I have heard the pain and devastation felt by Jewish and Palestinian Canadians; people who are worried for their loved ones stuck in Gaza, where every day brings more destruction, death and despair; Canadians who are afraid for their family and friends in Israel and who wait for news about those taken hostage. They are trying to maintain hope when there are so many reasons for despair.

Jewish Canadians, descendants of Holocaust survivors, grew up listening to stories about their family members being dragged from their homes and killed. Today, they watch videos of young Jewish people at a music festive being massacred or taken hostage. They fear the promise of “never again” has been broken.

Canadians of Palestinian origin see their families trapped in Gaza, said to be the worst place on Earth. In war, children are always the ones who pay the price.

This is a time when we must speak clearly: We condemn Hamas. We condemn the brutal murders of whole families and the taking of hostages. Terrorism is abhorrent to all of us who love peace and strive for justice. We cannot allow the world to use this terrorism to justify the human catastrophe unfolding before our eyes in Gaza.

The United Nations has said that nearly half of Gaza's people have been forced to flee from their homes. Morgues are overflowing. Hospitals are running out of supplies like painkillers, leaving those injured to endure terrible suffering. Food and water are scarce. There is raw sewage in the streets. Canada cannot stand by while the people of Gaza are left to die.

It took the Prime Minister a full week to put out a statement about the suffering in Gaza. Surely we must recognize that the lives and suffering of Palestinians concern us equally.

I want to tell the story of Reem Sultan. She has spoken of her relatives in Gaza who have fled for their lives, moving from shelter to shelter. She said that there is no electricity and little water and food. Some have died and everyone is in fear. There is no way to help those fleeing for their lives. After ordering Palestinians to evacuate, Israel hit the remaining access roads to Egypt with air strikes. These are Reem Sultan's words. They need the supplies to come in. They need the border opened. They need the water, medicine and food to come in by trucks. They are in an open-air prison right now.

We are also witnessing a disturbing rise of anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and anti-Palestinian racism in Canada. Jewish and Muslim parents are worried as threats make them wonder if they should send their children to school. Places of worship are targets requiring police protection. Palestinian and Muslim Canadians report ugly harassment and threats on the streets as they are blamed for crimes they did not commit. We have seen the devastating impact of Islamophobia in Canada before. We saw it yesterday in Chicago, with the killing of a six-year-old Muslim boy who was stabbed to death.

At this moment, I take courage from the life and work of Vivian Silver, an Israeli-Canadian peace activist from Winnipeg, who is currently believed to be among the hostages. Like so many in Israel and Palestine, Vivian has worked tirelessly for peace. She has done this work for decades, trying to build understanding between Israelis and Palestinians. She organized Friday afternoon meetings between members of the kibbutz where she lived and people who would gather in a field and speak with Palestinians in Gaza. She helped people living in Gaza to get access to cancer treatment. She is a mother and grandmother whose family misses her terribly.

Her son was recently interviewed about what he wants to see happen to free his mother. These are his words, “We need to stop the violence now. Vengeance is not a strategy.”

Her son describes the last moments he spoke to her. They sent text messages, because she was too afraid to speak and let the terrorists know where she was hiding. His last message to her was to let her know that he was with her, that she was not alone. If he can resist the call for revenge, surely we must demand the same of the Israeli government.

I also want to share Vivian's own words describing her life's work advocating for peace.

She stated:

I am driven by the intense desire for security and a life of mutual respect and freedom for both our peoples.

The thought of yet another war drives me mad. Like the last three, it will not solve the conflict. It will only bring more dead and wounded.

Vivian is not alone. Millions of Israelis and Palestinians all over the world desire peace. They want to live in safety and security. New Democrats have always been the ones to nurture the desire for peace, even when louder voices called for war. This is why we are calling on Canada to work with our international allies to end the bloodshed. We continue to call for an immediate release of all hostages, for the protection of all civilians, for an end to the siege and bombardment of Gaza, and for humanitarian aid to reach civilians urgently and without restriction.

International law must be upheld and respected. Make no mistake, collective punishment is a violation of this law. Canada must insist that all those who broke these laws are held accountable, even those nations we have called friends. Canada must call for a ceasefire to end the killing of innocent civilians in Gaza immediately. We cannot allow for the continuing dehumanization of an entire population. When we stop seeing each other as human, when we stop believing that each life has value, this is when the seeds of genocide take hold.

These are dark days, and the weeks ahead are likely to bring even more anguish, but we can never surrender to despair and never forget that we share a collective humanity and collective responsibility to protect all people from violence and terror.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, all week, since the events in Israel as a result of the terrorist attack by Hamas, I have been saying that we have to be able to condemn without the insertion of the word “but”. The leader of the NDP just began his speech, empathetic, so it seemed, to the victims of the terrorist attack by Hamas, only to insert the word “but”. Perhaps I misunderstood him, but it sounded to me that he was suggesting that Israel is committing or on the verge of committing genocide. Genocide, of course, is the intent to eradicate a people. Therefore, my question for the leader of the NDP is twofold: One, does he believe that Israel has a right to self-defence; and two, does he believe that the current reaction by the Israeli government in its response to a terrorist organization with anti-Semitic and genocidal objectives is revenge?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the concerns I want to raise are that we want to protect all lives. The outcome of war is more death and destruction. I quoted Vivian Silver, a peace activist who has spent her life trying to advocate ways for us to move toward peace and security. She herself suggested that conflict and war bring only more death and destruction.

While we unequivocally condemn the terrorist acts of Hamas, we continue to implore that the only way forward to save lives is peace, and we continue to be a voice to say that war will beget only more destruction, more despair and more loss. We have to find a better way forward.

Given the circumstances, given the conditions that are being imposed on the people of Gaza right now, who are without any proper access to resources like water, medication and food, the conditions are being set up for imminent and horrific despair, loss of life and tragedy. That must be avoided.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will ask again. The leader of the NDP used words like “revenge”, “genocide” and “collective punishment”. It sounds like he has walked those back after his prepared remarks.

I am going to ask him one more time if he believes, and this is a serious matter, that Israel is committing or is about to commit a genocide. Yes or no?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, many human rights experts and the United Nations have expressed dire concerns about the conditions and the lives of people in Gaza. I share those concerns. Anyone who cares about the collective responsibility and the collective humanity we have to protect life will look at the circumstances right now of people in Gaza and say that without access to food, without access to water, without access to electricity and without access to the resources needed to run a hospital, the conditions being imposed are dire. This is something that is deeply concerning.

We know there are innocent people in Gaza, and the imposition of these horrific conditions on everyone in that community is deeply concerning. That is what the United Nations has expressed, and that is what we are expressing. What we want to be clear about is that our goal here should be to save lives. That is why we are calling for a release of all hostages. We are calling for a ceasefire. We are calling for a path to peace to save innocent lives.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the leader of the New Democratic Party for the love he has shown for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Right now, we know that the hostages who have been taken by the terrorist organization Hamas are likely in Gaza. We know there are 150 Canadians, at least, who are in Gaza. We know that more than 50% of the population in Gaza is in fact children. The New Democrats have called for a ceasefire.

Why does he think the other parties in this House think it is all right to be bombing the hostages, to be bombing children and to be bombing Canadian citizens who are in Gaza right now? Is a ceasefire not a better solution right now as we try to get those hostages out?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we are in a very horrible time right now, and it is important to acknowledge how painful and how difficult this is. What my hon. colleague is pointing out is that the path we are suggesting is to look at our collective humanity, to not lose sight of the fact that every life is precious and dear and that we do not want to walk down a path that will result in even more death, destruction and despair.

That is the path we are on right now. That is the path the world is headed on. We are calling out, as difficult as it is and understanding how horrible the circumstances are, and saying that more war and more violence will result only in more loss of life. We need to find a better way forward. That is why we are calling for a release of all hostages. We are calling for a ceasefire. We are calling for a path of peace. The only outcome of more war is more death, and we have to prevent that.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I was very concerned by what I heard before. The Jewish people were the victims of the greatest genocide in human history, the Holocaust. Israel is the only majority Jewish state in the world. It sounded to me very much like he accused the state of Israel of being on the verge of committing a genocide.

I would like to ask, yes or no, do you believe that Israel is committing or is about to commit genocide?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I will remind hon. members to run questions through the Chair.

The hon. member for Burnaby South.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I understand that there are very real emotions and really serious concerns, and I respect and acknowledge that.

What we are concerned about are the conditions right now that are being imposed on the people of Gaza, the conditions which involve no more electricity, no more clean water, no more access to food and no more access to the resources necessary to run a hospital. These conditions being imposed on an entire population are very serious. The consequences of actions like that are very dire. The United Nations has pointed out that the consequences of a path where necessary resources are withheld from a population could be devastating and dire. That is what I am expressing as a very deep concern. That is why we reiterate our call. Release all the hostages. We need to ensure that there is a ceasefire. We need to see a path of peace because we need to save all lives.

Innocent lives have been lost. More will be lost if the steps that are being taken continue.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Chair, I commend my colleague on his speech.

We understand the NDP's position on the ceasefire and the humanitarian corridor. I would like my colleague to tell us what solution he is currently proposing. Does Israel currently have the tools it needs to resolve the conflict? What concrete measures does the member propose to spare civilians and put an end to the conflict as quickly as possible?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the only solution to conflict is a political and diplomatic solution, not war. That is what we are proposing because we know that war only leads to more more death, destruction and devastation. That is why we are calling for a ceasefire, the release of all hostages, and a path to peace and security. That is the only way to find a solution.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, it seems like the NDP leader has essentially offered a defence of complete pacifism. He has stated, as a principle, that he seems to believe that war is never the solution, that more war is never going to lead to peace. I want to just clarify his views on that. Does he believe that there is no case in which war is necessary or just? If there is any such case, it would seem to me that a response to this kind of terrorist attack against civilians would likely qualify.

Does he believe there is such a thing as a just war, that there is any instance where the use of force against an aggressor is justified? What is that case, in his view?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we are denouncing and are concerned about an approach of collective punishment. Of course, there are serious concerns, and we denounce the terrorist attack of Hamas.

However, our concern is that there are many innocent lives that are being put in a condition of desperation and a dire lack of access to basic necessities. That is a serious concern. The approach that we have to take is one in which we resolve conflicts through peace and through a desire to achieve safety and security for everyone. That cannot be achieved with more war.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg South Centre.

Let us start by asking ourselves why we are here tonight. We are here tonight because a terrorist organization that has in its charter the destruction of the State of Israel and of the Jewish people launched the worst attack against Jews since the Holocaust. It crossed the border into Israel. It slaughtered babies. It slaughtered women in their 90s who were Holocaust survivors. It took men, women and children who were huddled together in bomb shelters and kibbutzim, slaughtered them brutally and put it on video. It went to a music festival where young people were having fun, and slaughtered them all.

Among the 1,400-plus people who were slaughtered, which is the number that we know right now, were six Canadians: Alexandre Look, Ben Mizrachi, Adi Vital-Kaploun, Shir Georgy, Netta Epstein and Judith Weinstein Haggai. I have just learned from the family of Tiferet Lapidot that she was also slaughtered and that her body has been found. Seven Canadians have been slaughtered. I have been speaking to the families of those people, and it is devastating for them.

Something that has been impressed on the Jewish community for a very long time is the feeling that in the world today, we are very isolated. Anti-Semitism is on the rise, people are worried and this has exacerbated the situation. Israelis never thought this could happen. They thought their intelligence was better than this. Jewish Canadians are left shocked, vulnerable, apprehensive, afraid and angry. That is where we are today.

Israel, as a nation, has the right to defend itself within international law. We talk about the Holocaust, and the difference between today and the Holocaust is that in the Holocaust, we had no army for the Jews. We had nobody to stand up for us. Now we have a democratic state that has an army that can defend itself and the Jewish people, and that army has a right to eradicate a terrorist organization that has wreaked misery not only for Israeli families but for Palestinian families as well. Hamas uses its population as human shields.

We absolutely need to make sure that in Gaza, there is a humanitarian corridor. We need to make sure, and Israel has historically had the idea to make sure, that it does not attack civilians. We need to make sure that civilians are protected as well as possible, that humanitarian aid reaches Gaza and that there is a safe zone in the south. All of these things are important, but Israel has the right and the duty to defend itself. That is important.

I want to turn to something that has not come up as much as it probably should, which is that in Canada, there are two communities right now that are very vulnerable and nervous: the Jewish community and the Muslim community. Of course, all people who identify as Palestinians, whatever their religion, feel very vulnerable. Jews in Canada are not responsible for the actions of the State of Israel, and Palestinians in Canada are not responsible for the actions of Hamas. These two populations in Canada have historically gotten along very well and been allies, and we, as parliamentarians, have a duty.

We all have a duty to ensure that, here in Canada, we avoid the battles being fought in the Middle East, that all communities get along here in Canada, that we, as parliamentarians, offer our full support to the people in our ridings who feel extremely vulnerable right now, especially young people and students in our schools and universities. That is critical.

We, as politicians, have to set an example for everyone. Whether we agree or not, we need to be seen talking to one another and sharing our concerns in a civil way, because that is the way we set an example for future generations and other countries around the world.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I want to ask my hon. friend about his views on the Iranian regime's role behind this attack. It is clear, I think, that the Iranian regime is seeking to support terrorist organizations throughout the region. If we look at Israel's borders, we see Iranian regime engagement with Hamas, with Hezbollah and with the Assad regime in Syria. We have called for the government to take additional steps to hold the Iranian regime accountable, listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization, for example, and taking additional steps in terms of sanctions. This attack is another data point in terms of the horrors we have seen over the years with regard to the actions of this regime.

I wonder if the member could share what his views are on listing the IRGC, on the role of Iran in this particular attack and on what Canada can do to hold the Iranian regime accountable.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, that is a very important question. Iran is definitely responsible for Hamas having the resources it had to carry out these terrorist attacks. Whether or not Iran was actually involved in plotting these attacks, we do not know yet; I imagine we will at some future date. However, what we do know is that Iran is actively involved with Hezbollah and may well try to get it to create a second front in Lebanon. We need to make sure, along with our allies, that Iran does not further exacerbate tension in the region. Of course, I have voted in the House to designate the IRGC as a terrorist organization, and I certainly continue to support that vote that I made several years ago.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague opposite for his speech, which was passionate as usual. I would first like to let him know that my thoughts are with him. This evening, we are dealing with a difficult situation that requires sensitivity. I will ask my colleague a question about something he said. Where does one draw the line between defence and revenge?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I always enjoy getting questions from my hon. colleague, who is very intelligent. He always asks good questions. In my opinion, we are in a situation where a western democratic country was attacked by a third party, a terrorist group, whose stated purpose is to eradicate that country. The terrorist group's goal is not to create two states but to eradicate the State of Israel. Israel has the right to defend its population, just as every other state in the world does.

Unfortunately, sometimes it seems as though the issue is dealt with differently only in the case of Israel. I am grateful to the Bloc Québécois for taking a clear stance on this issue.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I know my colleague to be a very kind man, and I feel for him and his community. I know how difficult this week must have been for the member, as a Jewish Canadian, and I am deeply sorry.

However, my concern is that the member speaks about the right that Israel has to eradicate Hamas, and I utterly agree with him on that. Israel has every right to eradicate Hamas. The problem is that it is not Hamas that I am worried about; it is the children in Gaza. Israel does not have the right to undertake collective punishment. In fact, Noi Katzman, whose brother was murdered by Hamas, has said, “The most important thing for me and also for my brother, is that his death will not be used as a justification for killing innocent people.”

There has to be a way we can protect civilians, and right now, that is not happening. There is no corridor. There is no safe place for these families to go. There is no safe place for these children to go. There is nowhere for them to go to escape from the bombardment. How do we stand by and say that killing innocent children will make up for the murder of innocent people?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I also know my hon. colleague to be a very nice and well-reasoned person, and I consider her a friend. We disagree on this. I do not believe that anybody is saying any of the things she just said. Israel will do its best, as always, to make sure to make civilian casualties as low as possible. The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas attacks civilians; that is its goal. Hamas wants to kill as many people as possible; Israel does not. Israel wants to go after military targets of Hamas, and I trust the State of Israel will do that.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I want to start by sharing a story.

When I was a kid, my father would talk to me often about his life as a kid. Mostly they were positive stories filled with wisdom and great life lessons. However, one story he told took place at the Crescentwood Community Centre when he was about 12 years old. He and some other Jewish kids from the neighbourhood were attacked behind the building. They were beat up and bloodied because they were Jews. It really has not been until today that I have understood and felt the same fear that I suspect my father felt back then.

It is with that in mind that I quote something Professor Irwin Cotler said earlier as we announced a new Special Envoy on Preserving Holocaust Remembrance and Combatting Antisemitism. It was that the Jewish population in Canada represents 1%, but 67% of all hate crimes in Canada are levied against the Jewish community.

This is not to say that we do not have an issue in diaspora communities across the world and across the country. I appreciate that emotions are running raw. I appreciate that when we are traumatized and conflicts such as this arise, we are pushed back into our most primitive state and that innately we respond in tribalistic ways where we feel that, for our own survival, we have to stick with our people. There is certainly danger in that as we seek peace, and I recognize that.

I am able to stand on the floor of this House and say that the loss of every Palestinian child's life is tragic without adding the word “but”. The loss of every Palestinian life is tragic. It seems as though my colleagues in the NDP are not capable of speaking to what has occurred in Israel without the insertion of the word “but”, and I encourage them to reflect on the perspective that they have in the ways in which they are contributing to our national dialogue right now on this critically important issue.

In the Jewish faith, we have a ceremony called the unveiling. It takes place roughly a year after the passing of someone. On Monday we had the unveiling of the tombstone for my father. As we were walking to the gravesite, we walked past the headstone of my grandmother. It reminded me of the importance of relationship. It reminded me of the importance of bridge building, and that despite the fact that our emotions are raw, we do not have to agree on everything. In fact, we are not going to solve the problems of the Middle East in this chamber or in our communities. What we can do is respect one another. We can show empathy. We can engage in dialogue.

Most importantly, I want to come back to what I saw and was reminded of on my grandmother's headstone last week during my father's unveiling. It said, “Here lies Esther Carr. She made everybody feel like a somebody.” Right now, all of us in this chamber and all of us across the country must make one another feel like a somebody as we work through this incredibly difficult period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I just want to say that I was here for the last speech by the previous member for Winnipeg South Centre, and it does seem that he did pass on some great genes to the member.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am not sure if that was the member's first speech in this place, but we were actually at the same university together years ago. I did not expect to be agreeing with him when I asked him my first question in the House. I look forward to future opportunities no doubt to cross swords with the member with greater sharpness in the exchange. I do thank the member for what he shared in his comments.

I invite the member to reflect on some of the foregoing discussion about proportionate response versus vengeance. Some members of the House have, I think, tried to characterize any kind of military response to a terrorist attack as being necessarily vengeful. To me, vengeance implies a vicious desire to inflict harm, rather than a response that is survival or protection oriented.

I wonder if the member could reflect on that distinction.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I remember fondly the member opposite and I would debate one another on a local Ottawa campus radio station some years ago. Since then he arrived here much sooner than I and made important contributions to our public discourse.

The definition of genocide has a particularly important adjective: deliberate. I think of the innocent lives lost, of Palestinians and Palestinian children, that my hon. colleague from Edmonton Strathcona was right to point out in regard to the tragic nature of how it came to be.

I would suggest the reason we are seeing such loss of life is as a result of the common enemy to the Israeli people and the Palestinian people, and that is Hamas. Hamas is the enemy of Palestine and of Israel. This is something that we must be incredibly mindful of and steadfast in our repetition of as we engage in this debate.

To answer my colleague's question specifically, revenge is not a response to an organization whose fundamental pursuit and objective is to eradicate people from the earth.