Debates of Oct. 16th, 2023

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this debate is difficult and emotionally wrenching because this week has been emotionally wrenching. Hamas's crimes are horrific. I cannot say strongly enough that Hamas must be eliminated.

I know this is dangerous to think out loud in a debate among colleagues, but as this debate has gone forward, I have been thinking this: How can we ensure the safety of the civilian population of Gaza? I think we all agree they must not be conflated with their horrific captors. Let us make no mistake: Hamas has kept the people of Gaza hostage as well, since 2007.

On one side in this war is the State of Israel. On the other side is a terrorist organization of criminals laced through and hiding among a civilian population. I know that “perhaps” in this context is a dangerous notion for someone in politics, but let me climb out on a limb and ask this: Canadians have the the history of having invented the peacekeepers under former prime minister Lester B. Pearson; as such, can we imagine a policing action of many states to eliminate Hamas? Can we go in and eliminate the criminals, without bombing from the air, and have an ability to rescue innocents and hostages? I am not saying with no violence. Can we kill and eliminate Hamas, but do it carefully through peacekeeping measures?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague that Hamas has been keeping the Palestinian people hostage. I agree that the Hamas terrorists must be stopped and destroyed. I am not here to speculate on how we do that. I am certainly open to suggestions. However, as I said in my speech, and if my colleague was listening, this is a conflict halfway around the world.

I am not sure that, right at this moment, these are the ideas that need to be said in this House. Canadians are afraid and hurting. Our duty is toward our Canadian community.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I just heard the leader of the Green Party propose that perhaps Hamas could be eliminated by another international force. I would speculate that, if other countries volunteered to do that, Israel would be happy to have that occur. However, in the absence of having other countries commit troops to defeat Hamas, Israel is obviously on the front line and committed to protecting itself.

My grandmother was a Holocaust survivor and, as a result, I reflect a lot on the meaning of “never again”. Part of what this means for Jewish people or their descendants is that, during the horrific period of the Holocaust, other people and other nations did not step forward to prevent and stop the Holocaust. As such, Jewish people realized the need to protect themselves and develop the military capacity to defend themselves. If it were necessary to stand alone, they would have to protect themselves and make sure that something like this would never happen again. Could the member comment on that?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have worked with my colleague on several occasions toward a common cause. He is touching upon a very important point, which is that October 7 and the horrific attack by Hamas mark the day when the most Jews were killed since the Shoah and the Second World War. That has served to retraumatize survivors of the Holocaust, and all Jewish people, here in Canada and around the world. I think that is a very important point.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague spoke about Canadians hurting. She spoke about the people in her own community, the fear they have and ensuring that we are protecting them. In my community, it was just reported that there was a sign in an apartment building for everyone to see that said “Kill all Muslims”. What do we need to do today to ensure that anti-Palestinian and anti-Semitic messages are really addressed here in this place?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a subject I care very deeply about, and I would like to just make absolutely clear that acts of hatred, whether Islamophobic or anti-Semitic, have no place in this country. We must all work together in order to bring people together and ensure the safety of all Canadians.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for South Surrey—White Rock.

As most of us in this chamber and around the world did, I woke up on October 7 to look through my phone on Twitter, which is now called X, at the unspeakable horror that was going on in Israel.

It is hard to describe what happened and what transpired in Israel, with the brutality of Hamas members and how they did what they did so joyfully. They engaged in livestreaming the atrocities as they committed them, as if it were some kind of badge of honour. These are despicable, unspeakable acts, and it is unimaginable for us here in Canada that these things could even happen. When we look at the context of what is going on from the safety of being here in Canada, we actually cannot understand the horror that the people in Israel went through. The suffering is enormous. The brutality is extreme.

We always have to remember that Hamas is not a government or a military. Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization with one purpose, and its members carried out that purpose in a disgusting way in Israel.

I have spoken with my friends in the Muslim community and in the Jewish community. There is deep pain right now with the suffering that has gone on in Israel and the fact that there are still close to 200 hostages being held in who knows what kind of conditions. Of course, there is suffering that is going on in Gaza right now.

We always have to remember this: Hamas is responsible for all this suffering. Its members engage in despicable tactics, where they hide in Gaza. They precipitated all this conflict.

We do, of course, have to find ways to protect civilian lives, which is something that we on the Conservative side have absolutely called for and are committed to. The lives of innocent Israelis who were taken, civilians who were deliberately targeted and innocent Palestinians have equal value. That is why we have been very clear: We have called for safe zones, a humanitarian corridor and an ability to evacuate foreign nationals. All these things should occur, because it is the responsible thing for Canada to advocate for.

We also have to make sure that none of the issues that are going on, whether in Israel or Gaza, happen here in Canada. We have to combat any hate in this country. In speaking to my friends in the Muslim community and the Jewish community, there is a lot of fear right now here in Canada, and the government has to take the lead on this. There are people who are afraid to go to their place of worship, whether it is a mosque or a temple. The government has a responsibility to ensure that Canadians feel safe in their places of worship, which is why we are calling on the government to do more to ensure that this protection takes place.

I know that I speak for all members in this chamber about the solemnity and seriousness of this situation. We also always have to remember, despite what we hear from some of our colleagues in the NDP, that Israel has the right to defend itself, and it is doing that in a way to minimize civilian casualties. On the Conservative side, we support Israel's right to defend itself.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. He touched on a few points that I also feel very strongly about.

I believe the member mentioned the importance of our government taking action in order to help Canadians feel safe in their communities, and I could not agree with him more. As I mentioned, that is a priority, of course, of our government. However, does he not feel that this should be the priority of every single member of this House of Commons? Every elected parliamentarian should feel that it is also their responsibility to ensure that communities come together, that hate is tamped out and that we here in Canada can live peacefully and safely regardless of our origin or religion.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree 100%. It is something we all have a responsibility to do. It is why I have conversations with my friends in the Muslim community and have conversations with my friends in the Jewish community. We all need to work together toward that.

However, there are some things the government can do. It could rapidly disburse funds to religious organizations to beef up their security, because there is a feeling of insecurity right now. As much as we would hope that would not happen here in Canada, those are some of the things I am hearing. That member can speak to her government to make sure that happens.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his speech. I enjoy working with him from time to time on committees.

I just asked a question a moment ago, but they were unable to come up with an answer. Right now, Gaza is blockaded, and under international law, humanitarian corridors should be set up. Not only should they be set up under international law, but they must be.

The Conservatives are of the same opinion as the Bloc Québécois, and they are calling for the same things as the Bloc Québécois, the NDP and even the government of the day. Everyone is calling for a humanitarian corridor, but unfortunately there is none right now. A lot of pressure is starting to build on the Gaza Strip and, of course, on its people. This is endangering the well-being of the entire region. We can see that certain countries are looking to get involved, given the lack of a humanitarian corridor.

In my colleague's opinion, what is preventing Israel from setting up a humanitarian corridor?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I suspect part of the reason there is not a humanitarian corridor is Hamas. It will do everything it can to prevent such a humanitarian corridor from functioning effectively. However, it is something we are absolutely calling for. We are on the same page on that.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I join my hon. colleague in condemning Hamas. I also noted in his speech and appreciated that he talked about protecting lives. He is also likely aware that in recent days there have been 6,000 bombs dropped on Palestinians, and almost 3,000 Palestinians have been killed. In light of this, at what point, if any, would he join in calling for a ceasefire?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is not my position to tell a sovereign nation when its right to defend itself ends. What I do know is that Israel is attempting to minimize any civilian casualties. However, it does have a right to defend itself. We all agree in this chamber that Hamas needs to be eliminated, and that is what Israel is trying to do. We on this side support that effort.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague works with me on the Canada-China committee, and I actually was in his riding recently.

He spoke a bit about international law and the right of Israel to defend itself. We know that former International Criminal Court prosecutor Ocampo has said that there is potential for what is happening in Gaza to be a humanitarian genocide. Would the member be open to having all crimes committed at this time investigated by the ICC or the ICJ?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to speculate on what she is suggesting. What we do know for sure is that Hamas committed despicable war crimes, and it livestreamed them. For that, Hamas needs to be eliminated.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, October 7, 2023, is a day now permanently pierced into history, when the world witnessed evil in its purest form. Israelis were wrapping up the festival of Sukkot when sirens rang out. Israel was under violent attack. Like many Canadians, I was horrified to wake up to the news, images and videos coming out of Israel. This deliberate, coordinated attack by Hamas terrorists was despicable, unjustified, and I condemn it unequivocally.

Israel has the right to defend itself, just as Canada would if this attack were carried out on our soil. This should not be difficult to say, but some Canadian politicians and some in the media could not find the moral courage to say so. We have seen statements put out by both Liberal and NDP politicians that were so outrageous and morally bankrupt they had to be walked back or deleted.

The CBC instructed its employees to avoid referring to Hamas as terrorists. Our own state broadcaster ignored the fact that Hamas was put on the terrorist entity list by the Government of Canada in 2002, describing Hamas as “a radical Islamist-nationalist terrorist organization”.

We have seen reprehensible celebrations of these terrorist attacks right here in Canada, including, shamefully, in my own community in B.C. On Friday, in my community, a rabbi's home was vandalized with eggs and a swastika was drawn on his window. This is disgusting and unacceptable. This hate should not be tolerated in our country, full stop.

I condemn these celebrations and condemn the ideology of hate that has no place in Canada. There is no moral equivalence between Hamas terrorists who slaughter innocents, savagely rape women and children, behead babies and use their own people as human shields, and Israel exercising their right to defend themselves. This is a time for moral clarity.

I hope the CBC is paying attention when I say that Hamas is not a militant organization, a resistance or an activist group. Hamas is a sadistic, barbaric, terrorist death cult with no respect for human life. There can be no negotiating with Hamas. They must be defeated and destroyed. Their enablers must be exposed for the vile anti-Semites that they are. This includes state sponsors of terrorism, including the dictatorship in Tehran.

I have seen first-hand the strength of the Israeli people and how Israelis live under existential threat from Hamas, funded by Iran and other hostile actors in the region. Now this threat is reality.

My heart breaks for the families who have been destroyed, especially the families of the seven Canadians who were ruthlessly murdered. Last night in South Surrey, I attended a rally in support of the Jewish community and spoke to friends of Ben Mizrachi, a 22-year-old British Columbian murdered at the music festival. He was using his training as a medic with the IDF to help people who were wounded in the attack. He was trying to save lives when he tragically lost his own.

For those still in danger, we must do everything we can to bring them home safe. As we continue to watch the horrific events unfolding in Israel, there are concrete actions that Canada can and must take.

First, Canada must criminalize the IRGC, the terrorist arm of the Iranian government. Today again, the Liberals blocked the passage of a Conservative bill that would have taken this necessary first step.

Second, there are Canadians missing and presumed to be among the hostages. The Government of Canada must demand the immediate release of our citizens and all hostages taken by Hamas.

Third, Conservatives are calling for a full review of all foreign aid programs to ensure that no Canadian tax dollars are going to support terrorism.

Fourth, we must protect Canadian places of worship. Every person of faith has a constitutional right to worship here in Canada. “Never again” is a phrase associated with the atrocities of the Holocaust. Never again is now. Jewish people around the world are remarkably resilient. They choose to believe the promises of scripture that better days and peace lie ahead. However, they should not be continuously forced to prove their resilience by malevolent forces against their very existence.

I am proud to stand with our friend and ally, Israel.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows that the Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre of the Government of Canada has a national terrorism threat level. When Parliament Hill was attacked In October 2014, which was the last terrorist attack here on Canadian soil, it was set to medium, which is that a terrorist attack could occur.

Does the hon. member not think it is a good idea for the Government of Canada to update Canadians about the threat level that communities like the Jewish community, like the Muslim community, might be facing and either to reaffirm the threat level at medium or to upgrade the threat level to high, a likely chance of an attack occurring, in order to either reassure Canadians or arm them with the information they need to protect their religious and cultural communities?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned about the threat level here in Canada and in the United States. We know that we are seen as one North American entity by a lot of the bad actors in the world. We are referred to as the little Satan with the U.S. being the big Satan. We know there are people among us here who would do harm. I think it is essential that the Government of Canada assess the present threat level and inform Canadians.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think everyone in this House recognizes that adherence to international law is key and that international law needs to be applied equally.

Would the member agree that collective punishment is an example of being against international law?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree that international law should be observed, but we are talking about extraordinary circumstances. We are talking about a surprise attack on a sovereign nation in the most brutal and horrific manner where innocents were slaughtered. They were not soldiers. They were people in their homes having Shabbat dinner or asleep in their beds. Babies are no threat to anyone.

I understand Israel's right to defend itself, and it must choose how and when to do so. It is making every effort, from what I can see, to warn those who were not involved to go to safety.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to follow up on the question raised by the hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona.

It is clear that international law was violated by Hamas. This, I think, we agree on. Would the hon. colleague not also agree that it would be inappropriate for any state to violate international law in risk spots and to do everything possible to protect the lives of civilians?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that Israel, many times in the past, has been under violent attack from aggressor states all around it. We must remember that Israel is a very small country with vast aggressor states around it that mean to do it harm, which have vowed to push Israelis and the state of Israel into the sea.

In these circumstances, I think that Israel has always tried to follow international law, absolutely. I believe it will do so again.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know something. Obviously this terrorist organization, Hamas, could not have organized a terrorist operation of this magnitude without support from people with means. We are talking here about the funded Iranian group, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

Does my colleague agree that the House has a duty to condemn this group and recognize it as a terrorist organization?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I personally and all of my Conservative colleagues have called for the IRGC to be declared a terrorist organization by the government, so that it could not organize here in Canada or raise funds here in Canada. On the Liberal side they have gone so far as to call it a state sponsor of terrorism.

Again, this is not a drill. This is reality. Iran sponsors terror throughout the region and, in fact, probably elsewhere outside the Middle East. We need to see it for what it is, call it out and stop the flow of funds to terrorist organizations like Hamas.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Diversity]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Toronto—Danforth, my friend within my party.

This debate, this moment and this week have been extremely difficult for all who are watching what is happening overseas. It has caused fear, trauma, anger and hurt. These are emotions that are flowing through all of us. These are emotions we have to recognize. These emotions are legitimate and valid. It is important that we take stock of them.

On Saturday, October 7, I attended a Shabbat lunch with a rabbi in my riding. It was in his home, which is also a synagogue. That morning, the full scale of what happened, with the escalation of violence and the terror caused by Hamas, was not fully realized. However, we sat together, and the rabbi said that they were honoured by guests from outside of the community and that their Sukkot is complete when they welcome those from outside the community. We are all part of the puzzle. We are all part of the human family. We complete each other. We all have a role to play.

One week after that, and then some, a lot has happened. We have seen terrible things within Israel and terrible violence within Gaza. People died and people are dying now, as we speak. It should disturb us deeply. It should keep us awake at night. Why is that? Is it because lives are being lost right now? We know that is not the end of it. We know violence will continue to be unleashed. Will this solve the question we are all trying to solve, which at its core, at its root, is to build a safe and peaceful environment within the Middle East for both Israelis and Palestinians?

Take it here, home to Canada. We have seen this manifest within our communities. I was speaking with a rabbi in my riding earlier today, and he was telling me how children stayed home on Friday because of a threat that came from overseas. Children did not go to school, because they were worried.

In my own family, my sister-in-law wears the hijab. This morning, as she was driving my nine-year-old niece, her daughter, to school, she was accosted. Two different people within my riding gave her the middle finger. One followed her. She thought it was too unsafe to complete that drive. She returned home. Things are happening within our communities. We have to recognize this. It is critical that we do so.

We should have vigorous debate within the House and even within our communities, but there are limits. There are bounds, and we must know those bounds and recognize those limits. To get to the nub of the issue, the core of it, how do we not find ourselves in this cycle that has continued for so long? We must, in the end, choose to ensure that everyone in the region lives in peace and dignity, and that happens only through the creation of viable states for both Israelis and Palestinians, with a viable state for Palestinians too. Once everyone in the region can live in peace and security, and when our neighbour can live in peace and security, only then will we live in peace and security.