Debates of Oct. 16th, 2023

Situation in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague cares deeply about his constituents and the community.

Like him, I have been hearing horrific tales and stories about people. The mother of one of my colleagues was speaking Urdu, and my colleague had to tell her mom to stop speaking that and to go home, because she was so worried there would be violence perpetrated against her. The entire Jewish community is afraid. The entire Palestinian community is afraid. I am deeply worried that there is going to be an increase in violence in this country, that we are going to see an increase in hate crimes and that people are going to get harmed.

I wonder if the member could talk about how he sees his government taking action on this and what can be done to protect people.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question from the member from across the aisle.

We need to recognize that a lot is happening within our communities. It is important for every member of the House to understand that. We need to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We must do so as leaders. Within the chamber, we are all leaders in our own right. Within our communities, we must do our utmost to bring people together, as difficult as that is. We have to also allow people to work through what they are experiencing. We have to be there and respect that people are hurting.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech. We have worked together on a number of human rights issues, and that is exactly what we are doing again this evening.

I might disappoint some people this evening and this might sound glum, but I doubt there are many people in Israel or Palestine who are watching us right now. I am trying to determine what we can actually do, what impact we can really have on what is happening right now. One thing is possible. Canada could exert pressure to create humanitarian corridors. I truly believe that this could be possible if my colleague's government were prepared to take action. I am sure my friend would like to see that happen.

Does he know whether that is happening? If not, will my colleague put pressure on his own government to make it happen?

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think that dialogue is very important. We need to have conversations and build bridges with other countries to promote peace.

We also have to promote a viable solution.

It is very difficult to have this conversation today because of the war that is currently taking place. However, it is absolutely necessary that we maintain this objective.

It is absolutely necessary that we create a society and a world better than what we see at this moment.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the member, since he is part of the ministerial party, about a question I asked one of my colleagues earlier.

There is a lot of fear, as he has mentioned, in both the Jewish and Muslim communities across Canada, that they may be attacked individually or that their cultural, religious or educational institutions may be attacked. The government's integrated terrorism assessment centre has assessed Canada's national terrorism threat level at medium since October 2014. Does he not think it would be useful for the integrated terrorism assessment centre to indicate to the public if the level remains at medium or to assess it at a different level in order to reassure Canadians or better equip them to ensure their safety?

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is certainly a spike happening right now in discrimination. Anti-Semitism, anti-Palestinian discrimination, anti-Arab discrimination and Islamophobia are happening within our society and communities. In America, we saw that a six-year-old Muslim boy was stabbed to death over 20 times. I am deeply concerned about the future, not only overseas but also here. We need to bring the temperature down and be there for our communities.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, tonight I am going to take more of a personal approach to this debate. I am going to be speaking as a Jewish woman and a Jewish mother here in Canada about what the past week and few days have been like.

On the day of the mass murder and kidnappings by Hamas in Israel, like many people, I tuned to the television. I felt horror and fear. Me and my daughters were watching TV on a constant loop, and we watched every piece come out. We were on social media, and I will get back to that because that was not a good place to be. The whole time we were so focused. There were so many innocent Israeli people killed, people we could relate to, such as people in their homes or at a concert, and it was so much emotion for us.

Perhaps the feeling that had me struggling the most over this past week was disappointment, and the disappointment comes from the reactions we saw around us on day one and two from neighbours, friends and commentators on TV. They all jumped from the expression of sympathy and empathy to talking about context, and that was so hard because we were listening to people saying that violent action against innocent Israeli people, largely Jewish people, could all be explained if we just talked a little bit about history. It hurt to hear that. It made me sad.

It is important to say that so many people around us, and I am speaking for me, my daughter and other people I saw, were not able to just stop the clock for a moment to mourn and support. That left me and a lot of people like me feeling vulnerable. I am taking this moment to talk to people who, like me, just needed that moment to process, to be believed and to be comforted. Surely we can do that for each other without having to delve into historical context. I saw that this hurt was felt by a lot of people who saw some pretty churlish things on social media. It could be a very difficult point.

I will start by saying that what Hamas did was one of the most unimaginable, awful things by murdering and kidnapping over 1,000 people in a single day. Hamas must be brought to justice. However, I want to be clear that when I am speaking against Hamas, I am not talking about the Palestinian people. This is an important thing right now in where we find ourselves because I find too many people are conflating the two, and they are not the same. One is a terrorist organization and one is a people, and many of those people are now paying a heavy price for the actions taken by the terrorist organization of Hamas.

I am concerned about the safety of the people in Gaza. I know so many Canadians, like me, in our communities who are worried about friends and family and people in Gaza right now. The fact that people around me were so quick to jump over from fear, anger and grief does not justify people skipping over that when we are talking about the situation of the Palestinian people in Gaza. We must call for the release of the hostages who are being held by Hamas. We must allow for humanitarian support corridors.

I want to get back to talking about the people here at home to make sure that we take this moment because it has been a really difficult week, and I hear them. Jewish people in our communities who are concerned about their safety, and concerned for their children to be wearing the Star of David out there, I hear them, and I am with them. We can be there for each other. For Palestinian people and Muslims in our community who are concerned about their children being harassed or attacked, and concerned about safety and being visible in our communities, I hear them and see them, too. We can come together in this moment, and we can show why Canada is such an amazing place to live.

While I feel and have felt a lot of sadness and disappointment, I also feel great hope and strength from the community around us.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for sharing some very important personal reflections that I think are very valuable for the House to consider.

I want to ask a question on a somewhat different aspect of this debate. It is a question I have asked a few government members. It is about the role of the Iranian regime in supporting Hamas and supporting other terrorist organizations that threaten Israel.

Up until now, it has not been the position of the government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. I know there are some members of the government who have individually expressed support for the idea of listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization. This is another example. We have seen many examples in recent years of IRGC violence.

Does the member think there may possibly be a change coming in the government's position on listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as the member noted, I was not really focusing in my speech today on the fundamentals of international policy and foreign policy.

When I was in Mel Lastman Square last week, I saw many Iranian people who were feeling vulnerable about the things happening back in their home country. We have certainly been there to support “Women, life, freedom”, as we say, to support women in Iran.

I do not think I have to delve deep into what the answers are for foreign policy today, but I will say this is very much about showing support for Canadians of Iranian heritage who may have been feeling very vulnerable over the past year.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her insightful speech. Her remarks were very refreshing. I would like to ask her whether she believes there is room to take a step back or for nuance in this debate.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate that question. That is exactly what I was trying to say. I think that sometimes we try too hard to come up with answers right away. From time to time, there are things that we really need to think about. We need to be aware of what impact the things we are saying may be having on others around us. I therefore appreciate that question because sometimes we need to take a moment to think about those around us.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to start by sharing how much I appreciate that the member for Toronto—Danforth spoke from her heart tonight during such a difficult time for her as a Jewish Canadian.

In her comments, she spoke about empathy for Palestinian people. As she likely knows, there are hospitals, for example, in Gaza right now that are on the brink of running out of backup generator power. Can she speak to her reflections on what can be done to protect innocent lives in Palestine?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I noted in my comments that humanitarian support in the corridors is essential. I think everyone needs to know that innocent individuals are protected and that we are ensuring, wherever we can, that they have the support they need, and that stands. We can always help by protecting one another more.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I too want to thank my hon. colleague for the strength she brings to this debate. Knowing her background as a Jewish Canadian, I cannot even imagine this, so I appreciate that.

She spoke a lot about the local impact. I come from London, where we are still dealing with a lot of the impacts of what happened to our London family. To move forward, I have been asking about concrete actions we can take in this place and that the government can take to continue to support all of our communities when we are dealing with such tragedy and acts of violence and hatred.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think that part of it is also showing and evidencing civility, thoughtfulness and caring among ourselves as parliamentarians. I think that this can go a long way toward setting an example back home in our communities, listening and being there for each other. Sometimes it is about the different programs and sometimes it is also just about making sure that we can be there for one another.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time.

I come to this debate tonight as a Christian, as the grandson of a Holocaust survivor and as someone with deep love for my many Muslim friends.

The three great Abrahamic faiths have many points of unity. We share our commitment to the singular worship of one God, a belief in a moral framework that flows from the Ten Commandments, an appreciation for the role of reason in religious life and an attachment to the place we all call the Holy Land.

In the midst of these tumultuous times, there are those who believe conflict between the Abrahamic faiths is inevitable, but I do not agree. Those who assert some inevitability of conflict lack both memory and imagination. They fail to recall centuries of fruitful co-operation between members of these faith communities, and they fail to perceive opportunities for a bright future.

There is a bright star at the end of this dark tunnel. That star is one in which Israelis and Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Christians and others live side by side in peaceful democratic pluralistic and prosperous states, a two-state solution in which each reflects the legitimate national aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians.

Israel has established peaceful relations with many Muslim majority nations, most recently through the aptly named Abraham Accords, but disrupting these efforts at peace is the violent extremist and colonialist regime in Tehran. While more and more actors in the Middle East are moving toward peace, the Iranian regime is trying to be a spoiler, supporting and enabling many different terrorist organizations.

Hamas terrorists, recognized as such by successive Canadian governments, have militarily conquered and have terrorized the people of the Gaza Strip for a decade and a half. Hamas has not sought to govern the Gaza Strip in any meaningful sense. Rather, they have sought to turn the Gaza Strip into a staging ground for terrorist operations into Israel.

Hamas has shown capricious disregard not only for the lives of Israelis but also for the lives of Palestinian civilians living in Gaza. During the last round of fighting between Israel and Hamas, the foreign affairs committee heard that over 15% of the rockets launched by Hamas, intending to kill Israeli civilians, actually landed in Gaza on the heads of Palestinian civilians.

The committee also heard at the time about how a vital humanitarian corridor into Gaza was closed after being subject to a Hamas mortar attack. I asked officials why Hamas would intentionally target a humanitarian crossing. Canadian government officials told the committee:

In terms of the reason...obviously the intention and the pressure on all parties Hamas may not have wanted alleviated instantly, to keep the pressure on and keep sending the message.

In other words, the testimony of this expert was that Hamas weaponizes the pain of the Palestinian people for their own twisted political ends.

In the present context, I want to call for and underline the importance of humanitarian access.

Palestinian civilians should be able to access the things required to meet basic humanitarian needs. There should be a corridor for bringing essential humanitarian supplies into Gaza, and there should be a secure safe zone area or areas for civilians to take shelter and access essential humanitarian goods. The international community should work together to establish this essential humanitarian access.

Israel has a right to defend itself by targeting Hamas terrorists who have attacked it, and all steps should be taken to minimize harm to civilians.

Hamas must be called out for how they intentionally, constantly, put Palestinian as well as Israeli civilians in harm’s way. The latest fighting began after Hamas launched a horrific terrorist attack, killing over 1,000 Israeli civilians in the most brutal ways imaginable and taking well over 100 hostages. This was the largest mass killing of Jews since the Holocaust.

As the descendent of Holocaust survivors and the descendent of some who did not survive, this is deeply personal for me. There can be no equivocation about the horror of what happened or about the need to hold the killers responsible. No other country, after facing such an attack, would be expected to contemplate an immediate ceasefire without first securing freedom for hostages and bringing perpetrators to justice.

I hope and pray that Israel's legitimate pursuit of its own security will lead to the least possible loss of human life in the short term but also in the long term. A long-term future of peace and security for Palestinians and Israelis is likely not possible until the tyrannical control of the Gaza strip by Hamas terrorists ends.

Palestinian self-determination starts with Palestinians being able to choose who governs them and choosing a government within constitutional constraints that puts the well-being of the Palestinian people first. While more and more Muslim-majority nations are pursuing peace with Israel, the Iranian regime is enabling and using terrorist proxies to attack Israel and to undermine the sovereignty of other nations in the region.

That is why I will continue to push this government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization and shut down their operations here in Canada. That is why I will continue to support the “Women, Life, Freedom” movement. The success of the Iranian freedom movement would deprive terrorist groups throughout the region of material and strategic support.

As those protesters say, “No solution but revolution”. I stand today with Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians and people of all faiths and backgrounds who desire three simple things: to live in freedom from tyranny and oppression, to protect their family and to practice their faith. This is the best of the Abrahamic faith traditions that we share, the commitment to freedom, family and faith that must unite us all.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I always appreciate my colleague's speeches, which are both passionate and, above all, intelligent, even if we do not always agree.

However, tonight we agree on one point. I think the whole House of Commons and every party agrees that it is absolutely necessary, and urgent, to establish a humanitarian corridor. Everyone here tonight agrees on that.

That said, no one is able to give me an answer. How is it that Israel has not yet set up this humanitarian corridor? I have had only one answer: It is because of Hamas.

With international pressure, with the parties that are all in agreement here tonight, with the 338 parliamentarians who agree with establishing such a humanitarian corridor, I think we can agree that Israel must absolutely take action and quickly.

What does my colleague think?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think we all absolutely agree with the importance of having a humanitarian corridor. In terms of the logistics around it, all of us need to be working on that solution. In particular, the governments of the world need to be working on that solution. Of course, the different actors have a role to play, but it is not as simple as Israel deciding there is going to be a humanitarian corridor. There has to be negotiation, likely involving Egypt, and a willingness by Hamas to allow such a corridor to be established.

I will be honest: How could I know all of the particulars of those ongoing negotiations? However, we should keep the pressure up to highlight the importance of that humanitarian corridor and push for all actors involved to do what they can to make it happen as quickly as possible.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise as a voice for the great people of Calgary and for our vibrant Jewish communities. In the solemn silence of the Sabbath, violence and terror ensued last Saturday. The chosen friends whom I have had and the chosen family I get to make, as for so many people from across Israel, began to text as they learned and watched the documented evidence of atrocities. They watched babies being thrown into cages and seniors being dragged across the street. They heard news of young people revelling in joy, song and love being slaughtered. They watched wanton destruction by terrorists roaming the streets of the country I have come to love in the many times I have had the honour to visit. Now, seven Canadians lie dead.

I am here just to say a few things. The first is that Israel has the right to exist. The Jewish people, as indigenous to the land, through the modern state of Israel, tell the story of the most remarkable indigenous revival on Planet Earth. The world's recognition of this Israeli legitimacy, this Zionism, is long overdue. Terror runs across the streets of that great country, that amazing, remarkable democracy.

Its legitimacy is being challenged once again, which brings me to my second point: Israel has the right, and indeed the obligation, to defend itself by itself. In 1948, the world's establishment argued against its existence, saying that it was less permanent than other nations are. This is logic that strays dangerously close to anti-Zionism and, through it, to actual anti-Semitism. Time and time again, Israel has proven them wrong, against great odds, fighting to preserve its state and proving beyond any doubt its ability to defend itself and its capital.

In most instances, such strength would be taken as an example of Israel's permanence, yet each time, the Jewish state is forced to sue for peace and grant concessions to its enemies. These enemies have only one goal: to destroy the state and eradicate the people. We stand with the reservists and security services that bring order to Israel by weeding out hundreds of Hamas terrorists, by rescuing hundreds of innocent hostages and by ensuring Hamas is dismantled and never capable of doing this again.

Third, anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. At rallies sprouting up across our land, extremists celebrate rape, murder and kidnapping by Hamas, calling for actual incitement of violence against our treasured Jewish communities. Extremists' celebration of actual hate crimes and war crimes constitutes an affront to the peace and freedom of all Canadians, especially our Jewish communities.

Hamas is responsible for all the misery, murder and chaos across Israel and Gaza. There is no equivalence. Hamas is responsible for the deaths we see on the streets of Israel and for the loss of every innocent life to come. Gaza has not been occupied for more than 18 years. For 18 years, it has been part of a Hamas terror factory backed by a clerical military dictatorship in Iran. It is time to dismantle all of it now.

In this terrible test, when the calls for appeasement and restraint come, when it is hard to stand with Israel, I will pay attention to those who actually do. Under attack by land, by sea, by air and by a firestorm of rockets, and with infiltrators kidnapping and killing innocent civilians, there is no equivalence to be made. Hamas is responsible.

This is hard for me, because I spent a few years living in the desert under bombardment from Iranian rockets, and I know what it is like. In the hours and weeks, in the dark months ahead and in the trying times of our defining age, may the blessings of the memories of those who have been murdered over this last week, of those who have been sent to gas chambers and of those who have survived through the millennia fortify us to get this job done, because Am Yisrael Chai.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Calgary Heritage spoke about difficult times in the months and weeks ahead. I want to share some of the words of a critical care physician in Gaza right now. These words are, “The situation is catastrophic”. The hospital he works in is currently powered by a generator, having lost electricity for the past five days. He says, “Once the fuel inside the hospital vanishes, we will face a bad situation. We will turn into a big mortuary, a big grave.”

Can the member speak to what he feels needs to be done to protect lives in Palestine right now of people who are in the midst of this kind of devastation?

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Mr. Speaker, 24,000 litres of water have been stolen by Hamas. Hamas has been constantly subjugating humanitarian supply chains and requisitioning them to support its own terror apparatus in this region. Hamas is what is holding the peace and safety of Palestinians back, and not some morally equivalent argument about international institutions. At the end of the day, when we care about the prosperity and the peace that the Palestinian people deserve, what needs to happen is that Hamas must be defeated once and for all.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have heard that there are about 150 Canadians in Gaza right now. We also know that the hostages who have been seized by the terrorist organization Hamas are in Gaza right now. We also know that 50% of the population in Gaza are children, who have had nothing whatsoever to do with the horrific crimes committed by Hamas. Does this member believe that those people, those Canadian citizens, those people who have been held hostage against their will by the Hamas terrorist organization and those children deserve to receive punishment?

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Hamas is holding those people hostage. Hamas is using these innocent civilians as a means to shield its terror apparatus, and it has no desire, no plan and no stated objective to ever stop. The people in Hamas proved, just one week ago, to what extent they will commit wanton acts of murder against innocent civilians. They have proven over the last 18 years how ready they are to sacrifice Palestinians for their own demented cause. Therefore, Hamas is responsible for the safety and the security of those Palestinians and Hamas is responsible for all that is to come.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member for Calgary Heritage on his excellent speech. Like many Jewish Canadians, I have taken great comfort from the debate tonight and general unanimity in the House that Israel has the right to defend itself within international law because it was attacked by a terrorist entity and we are all better off if that terrorist entity is destroyed.

There tend to be places where Israel is treated differently from every other country in the world, by some people. I wonder if the member might extrapolate a bit about how this is taking place in this context.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Israel has always been held to a separate standard compared to other states. For some reason, when Israelis and Jews and those who live within its sovereign borders are attacked, they are immediately compelled to restrain themselves and find ways to be more civil, even though, as a democracy and as a professional military, they go above and beyond the standards that are required, compared to what most countries do. Therefore, we find that Israel is constantly singled out as a country internationally.

Its Jewish people are often identified as colonial settlers when in fact they are indigenous people who have revived the state and set an example in modern times. We have seen how Israel is seen in our academia, in our non-profit community and in many other places as somehow subjected to a different standard and to anti-Zionism. In campuses across the country, we have seen this distortion of facts and the reality of the actual truths of what modern Israel is built upon. I thank the hon. member for the opportunity to point out how unfairly Israel is characterized across the world.