Debates of Oct. 19th, 2023

Bill C-50—Time Allocation Motion

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, this is such important legislation for sustainable jobs. It is about building our economic future as a country.

I was wondering if the Minister of Labour could talk to us a little about the importance of making sure that workers are at the centre of the work that we are doing, and how we have made sure, through this bill and the work that we have been doing generally with labour, that workers' voices are being heard, listened to and included.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, this is very much a process, and process can be incredibly important.

I do not want to presuppose what workers are going to say about how they want to get this done. I have talked to a lot of oil and gas workers, both in my constituency and in my time as natural resources minister. Even through COVID, I still spent a lot of time talking to oil and gas workers in Alberta and Saskatchewan, even if it was by Zoom. They all said the same thing. There was a great nervousness about plans being made and them not being at the table.

I made it very clear that, with this legislation, the whole point of the bill is to make sure that they are at the table, to make sure that they can lead the table, and that we are working with them to make sure that the training opportunities are there for them to avail themselves of all sorts of things. There is carbon capture sequestration, for instance, within the oil and gas industry, even on pipelines themselves. It is so important that we know where and when to tighten the nuts and bolts on a pipeline to make sure the methane does not leak. These are all very important things.

These are the only people who know how to do this work. Consecutive governments have spent too much time putting them in the margins of this debate, putting them in the margins of the hard work that needs to be done when they have to be at the centre of it because they are the only ones who know how to do it.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Speaker, one thing that is abundantly clear after eight years is that the Liberal government loves to build bureaucracy but not actually build jobs and options for workers.

When we look at this bill, we have a stable jobs partnership council, a sustainable jobs secretariat and a sustainable jobs action plan. We lost a couple of years because of COVID. The government did nothing with that. We see in the bill that all the government would do is create another process where it could reward more of their friends with positions on councils and secretariats with fancy titles. It is not going to be the people working in Coronach, Rockglen or Kindersley, Saskatchewan, in Alberta or in the places that actually matter, those who are actually going to be impacted and affected by this.

What assurance is the government going to give people that it will get it right, and make sure it is only people in the sector, and not people from the Laurentian elite or the downtown Toronto core, who are going to be sitting on the secretariat?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, when I look at the other side, I am looking at the kings of red tape when it comes to energy production. One of the first things I was so happy to do was with respect to exploratory well environmental assessments on our offshore, off Newfoundland. The assessments were at 300 days per exploratory well until the Conservatives got in power and somehow magically found a way to triple that time to 900 days to make an exploratory well, which is a simple drill that goes into the sea bed to see if there is oil there. They put it in the same category as Hibernia and as Hebron, both full platforms. The Conservatives did not even get time to amend it. Maybe they did not care.

We did not want mistakes like that. One of the best parts of the much-maligned Environmental Assessment Agency is that it is able to do regional assessments. We were able to do one for the Newfoundland offshore, and we were able to reduce that time, as a result of looking at the entire basin, from the Conservatives' 900 days to our 90 days, as it should be.

That is because we paid attention to what people are doing on the ground, and it is one of those few occasions where, in 90 days instead of 900 days, we increased environmental oversight because we were looking at the entire basin and not just one item after another after another, consecutive duplicative red tape that the Conservatives managed to put in the way of our offshore.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on October 5, 2023, for the second reading of Bill S-12, an act to amend the Criminal Code, the Sex Offender Information Registration Act and the International Transfer of Offenders Act, I voted on the voting app. The voting app sent me a confirmation whereas the picture had not gone through. Therefore, I ask the House to give unanimous consent to vote yea.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

Continuing with questions and comments, the hon. member for Jonquière has the floor.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe what I heard from the minister's mouth. He told my colleague earlier that workers did not want to use the term “just transition”.

However, this is coming specifically from the unions. I have had so many meetings with unions to talk about the just transition, and the folks representing workers do want to talk about a just transition. The minister says that workers do not like that term. I think it is the government that does not like that term.

No one in the western world uses the term “sustainable jobs” except in Canada. Someone will have to explain that to us at some point. I think it comes down to fear. The government is afraid of how Albertans and people in the oil and gas industry will react to the just transition, so it prefers to use a wishy-washy term like “sustainable jobs”. If the government cannot even call it what it is, we cannot expect it to take courageous action to lead the energy transition.

There will always be people who do not want the energy transition. Should the term “energy transition” be changed to “power alteration” or whatever? It is nonsense.

I wonder if the minister could explain to me why the terminology changed from “just transition” to “sustainable jobs”?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I would say to the hon. member, “Believe it.” I am a lot less interested in using phraseology that appeals to Geneva or others, and there has been some consistency in phrases that the member likes or perhaps some union leadership likes. I am interested in the membership of the those unions. I am interested in talking to the people who do that work.

If the member talks to the people who represent them, they will acknowledge that, when we talk among ourselves, we say “just transition” just so we know what we are talking about. What are we talking about? We are talking about training workers for opportunities in the future. That is really all it is. It is a nice way to say it.

They can call it whatever they like. At the end of the day, what we are saying here is that we are listening to the workers themselves. We are using words that they would prefer to use, and we actually prefer using fewer words and doing more things. That is what this is about: making people feel included, and not just any people but the people who will actually do the work of lowering emissions.

The point is not the phraseology. I do not care about that. What matters is that workers are given the dignity for the work that they do, for what they have done, for what they have built, what they are building and what they are about to build for all of us.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, where I come from, in my riding of Courtenay—Alberni, we see it as a duty and responsibility to build a diverse economy and build resilience in our communities. I think about the Port Alberni Port Authority wanting a floating dry dock. There are the Coulson Group, which is a global leader in firefighting aviation, wanting to expand and do more work here, and there is Nova Harvest in Barkley Sound wanting to expand. I also think of Tla-o-qui-aht, which is building run-of-the-river and clean energy projects. We see it as a duty. We would see it as irresponsible to not be fighting for the creation of more jobs when it comes to clean energy.

Does the minister not see that it is a duty of all members of the House to build resiliency, a cleaner future and a more sustainable future, especially for workers, who have been advocating for this very bill to be seen through?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, Bea Bruske, the president of the Canadian Labour Congress, said that this would be a big win for workers and that workers have raised their voices and helped to make the sustainable jobs act a reality. We did not just come up with writing this off at committees. These are things we developed after a great deal of consultation with workers themselves, so these are the mechanisms that would give them a voice. They would be legislated through this place and have the authority of this place. The legislation would carry the weight of not just what is in here, but of the House saying to workers, firmly, that they are in charge of this and we are going to figure this out together.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am afraid the hon. Minister of Labour's speech would have been well informed if there had been some reference to already broken promises to workers in the fossil fuels sector.

We talk about how workers do not like to hear this language. I was in Paris with the member's friend, the minister of the environment at the time, Catherine McKenna, was working with Canadian labour unions, and working hard, to get the language of exactly “just transition” into the Paris Agreement. At that point she came back to Canada and put in place a task force on coal sector workers.

The task force went into every coal sector worker community in Alberta and Saskatchewan, co-chaired by the head of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick and co-chaired by the then head of the Canadian Labour Congress, who is now a senator. They went into every community, listened to coal sector workers and came up with 10 key principles that should be followed. They are gathering dust, these principles, under the title “A Just and Fair Transition for Canadian Coal Power Workers and Communities”.

This morning, this debate is not about the bill itself. It is about everybody's right to speak to it. Here I am as Leader of the Green Party of Canada, and my first chance to speak to the bill is on the question of shutting down debate before we even talk about the work that is important to do and about using language. It is not phraseology or minimizing it and ridiculing it. It was hard work to get it into a legally binding agreement, to which Canada agreed to, signed and ratified, that uses the language “just transition”.

The emphasis there is not only on the transition, but also on the justice of it for the workers and the communities, who gave their time in full faith that their report would go somewhere and not just gather dust on a shelf.

I see the Speaker wants me to hurry up, but I have had it with being hurried up, shut up and kept off the floor because the bill is important, and now we are going to have time allocation. I do not know that I will get to speak to it.

I ask my dear friend, the Minister of Labour, to please not use time allocation on every single bill. It is insulting to democracy and it makes a mockery of the work to review important legislation in this place.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

I am just trying to keep people to the topic at hand and to make sure everybody gets to participate.

The hon. Minister of Labour.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, time is of the essence here. The Inflation Reduction Act has passed in the United States. It is perhaps the single greatest industrial policy, and probably the single greatest piece of legislation, that has been passed in any democracy in the world on the issue of energy transition. We have to move, and the way in which we move will determine whether how we move is sustainable and competitive in drawing investment, and we want to do it right. We want to do it with workers on side.

On the issue of time allocations, members can please tell me what in the bill is so bad about including workers in decisions. Members can tell me if there are larger issues that are unresolved, as there are in the House on issues of energy transition, but on the issue of whether workers should have a role here, let us get to work.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, this flawed bill is a bill to basically create a committee to create a committee, and there would be no assurances within this committee that the 15 positions, other than bureaucracies, would actually represent those workers. They would not represent the worker who is on the dragline in Westmoreland Coal in Estevan or in Bienfait, Saskatchewan. The committee would not have that person there. It would have a bureaucrat or union person who is focused on that aspect, as opposed to knowing exactly what that job is. On top of that, you talked about wanting to listen to the workers. I quote you on that; you want to hear from them directly. Where in the legislation does it say we would have that worker there?

Furthermore, there is no mention in there about communities. You talked about the new sustainable jobs plan. It does not make any mention of sustainable communities or mitigating negative economic impacts. These are important things that would affect each and every one of those workers in Bienfait, in Coronach and around this country who would lose their jobs because of this.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, Bea Bruske, the president of the Canadian Labour Congress, said that workers have raised their voices and have helped make the sustainable jobs act a reality, and that Canada's unions are proud to work with the government to develop legislation that focuses on workers. The International Union of Operating Engineers said that the act “puts the interests of energy workers at the forefront of a low-carbon economy.” The international vice president of the IBEW said that this act shows the government's “commitment to protecting good-paying, highly skilled jobs.” Canada's Building Trades Unions welcomes the bill, saying that the consultation built into this process would “ensure workers are front and centre during this transition.”

If there are issues with the people they elect, then you can take it up with them. However, to say that somehow these people who are there, whom these workers elect, are elites is to put us into question. What are we? Are we elites?

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

I want to remind folks to speak through the Chair. The word “you” has been used a lot. I would ask members to try to mitigate what is happening by talking through the Speaker.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was here yesterday when everybody would have known that we were going to be debating this bill. I saw something quite remarkable once again from the Conservatives, which was their using a concurrence motion on a report that the government has acknowledged it fully supports, as a way to slow down and prevent this legislation from coming forward.

I cannot help but think that, at the end of day, what is really going on here is that it is just the Conservatives' position about, in particular, sustainable jobs and the clean-tech industry. I know that the minister is from Atlantic Canada and that the Conservative Party is also, to the bewilderment of probably the majority of Canadians, against the Atlantic accord, which would set up Atlantic Canada to really drive forward the technology and the economy of the future. Even when all the premiers are supportive of it, the Conservative Party of Canada, for some reason, is against that, too.

Would the minister not agree with me that this has more to do with the Conservatives' continually trying to filibuster and prevent any legislation from going forward that supports the economy of the future and, in particular, the green and renewable economy?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I remember when the Atlantic accord came about. It came about because of the good work of prime ministers like Brian Mulroney, excellent politicians like Pat Carney and, of course, the indomitable John Crosbie. One of the things that the Atlantic accord fundamentally does is acknowledge the jurisdictions of the provinces and the federal government. It clearly lays out a stable regime to attract investment, and it worked.

We created, in the past 25 or 30 years, an offshore industry in my province that is now responsible for the majority of its revenue. This is so important. The Atlantic accord is held up with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is a document of prosperity where I come from. Now, we want to move the same regime that respects the jurisdictions of the provinces and of the federal government, rightly, and we want to apply it to an industry that is already attracting billions of dollars for offshore wind and hydrogen.

The same workers who work proudly in our oil and gas industry in the Newfoundland offshore are moving to these jobs as well. It is an extraordinary opportunity. Why would one be against it?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, once is not a habit, but failing to consider existing laws in Quebec has certainly become a habit for the federal government. The paternalistic attitude of the federal level remains unchanged.

I would ask my colleague if he has truly taken into consideration Quebec's existing laws. Again, it is as though we do not even exist.

I will refresh my colleague's memory. In 1995, the National Assembly of Quebec introduced and passed legislation promoting the development of labour training. Then, there was the Commission des partenaires du marché du travail, which recently celebrated its 25th anniversary. Since 1997, we have also had an agreement with the federal government, the Canada-Quebec Labour Market Agreement in Principle.

Bill C-50 makes no mention of that. If the minister wants to have Quebec's co‑operation, did he take into consideration the existing laws in Quebec? If not, are the Liberals going to do what they usually do and meddle in our affairs, criticize what Quebec does, show up with their ideas and claim they can override everything?

I invite the minister to give us an honest answer. Did he take this reality into consideration in his bill or, if not, will he correct this and reach an agreement with Quebec by respecting the existing laws of the National Assembly of Quebec that are already in place and work very well?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I do not find anything particularly paternalistic about this government's or any government's talking directly to workers, and I do not need anybody to tell me that I cannot do that. I also do not find it necessarily duplicative because some other government had spoken to them as well. We need to speak to them. More importantly, we need to listen to them, I think.

I think that the important thing about this is that it also builds on an important policy coming out of NRCan about regional tables, because this country is big. It is different. Our politics and our economies are different. We come together in this place to find commonalities, but at the end of the day, we have to embrace those differences. My province and its use of energy, its development and production of energy, are very different from Quebec's and, in some ways, they are very similar on issues of hydroelectricity. However, on issues of oil and gas, and right now at least on issues of hydrogen and issues of offshore, my province is very different. We have to take into account particular views of each part of the country in order for each part not only to be acknowledged but also to prosper.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am really glad that we are moving forward on the bill before us. The NDP worked very hard to ensure that workers were in fact at the table for the conversation and played a part in this legislation.

The Biden administration has moved on an all-of-government approach and is looking to make really progressive changes on clean energy. I think that it is really important that our government keep pace with one of our largest partners in terms of the economy, etc. This legislation is essential for moving beyond the promises of just investments and tax credits, and I would like to hear about how this legislation could put us on that world stage, as we need to move forward with it. We need to do that very quickly.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, it is a huge competitive advantage to make sure not only that workers are at the table but also that they are helping us lead these decisions. That in itself is a competitive advantage. It is a competitive advantage when we put in place the mechanisms to make sure that they do have that voice, that it is heeded and that they lead. We do not have all the answers in this place. The heads of the companies do not have all the answers, by any means. I would argue, and they have told me this, that not all the heads of the union leadership have the skills necessary to do what we are talking about. We are talking about the workers on the ground. It is a competitive advantage as we look at some of the phenomenal things that are happening in the United States and particularly with this president and the Inflation Reduction Act, but I think this, at the heart of it, is our competitive advantage in this country: putting workers at the centre.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I am wondering whether the member could provide an explanation of how important it is that the government be able to pass legislation. It would appear, based on yesterday's filibuster, that the Conservatives do not want the legislation passed. Without time allocation, we will not be able to get it passed. Could the member give his perspective as to why it is so important that we get this passed?