Debates of Nov. 1st, 2023

Carbon Pricing

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition seems to be too busy patting himself on the back to do his homework.

At the end of the day, heating oil costs anywhere between two and four times the price of natural gas. It is a particular driver of energy poverty in this country. We have taken steps forward to improve affordability by enabling the implementation of heat pumps, which will save people up to $2,500 a year, but we are doing so in the context of a plan to fight climate change, something he has said nothing about in the year since he became the Leader of the Opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I feel bad for the Liberal minister, who has been abandoned by his leader. The leader of the Liberal government will not even stand and defend his own decisions.

We know that on Thursday, after having his door beaten down by terrified Liberals about to lose their seats, he decided to flip-flop and bring in a temporary pause on a tax until after the election, dividing Canadians once again into two different classes.

If the Prime Minister is so proud of how he has divided people, if he is so proud of how he is forcing Canadians to choose between heating and eating, why does he not have the guts to stand up and say so now?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

Mr. Speaker, I will tell the House who is feeling abandoned by their leader. It is Conservative Albertans, New Democrat Albertans and Liberal Albertans, because Danielle Smith is trying to take Albertans out of the Canada pension plan.

What do we hear from the Leader of the Conservative Party? We hear weak sauce and platitudes. The pretender to the throne can stand here today and give a full-throated defence of the Canada pension plan, while his 30 Alberta MPs stand in silence. Will he or will he not? I know we will. Albertans can count on us defending them every single day, along with their pensions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, that carbon tax question was for the Prime Minister on Prime Minister's question period day. I know I do not have my glasses on, but that guy does not look like the Prime Minister.

I have a very simple motion, which says, “That, given that the government has announced a ‘temporary, three-year pause’ to the federal carbon tax on home heating oil, the House call on the government to extend that pause to all forms of home heating.”

Will the Prime Minister have the courage to stand up and indicate whether the vote on this motion will be a free vote for his members?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, those of us on this side of the House prefer to do good public policy rather than simply playing politics. I know that is an idea that seems to be foreign to the Leader of the Opposition.

Heating oil is two to four times more expensive than natural gas. It is a particularly acute issue for people in a number of provinces, not just in Atlantic Canada. The program that we are putting in place applies across the country. It is to ensure that we are addressing concerns around affordability in a thoughtful way, while also addressing concerns around climate change, which I am sure their children will tell them is a very important issue.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Québécois motion we are voting on shortly calls on the government to review its immigration targets starting in 2024, after consulting with Quebec and the provinces about their integration capacity.

The minister, however, is preparing to unveil his immigration targets even though no one has been consulted. During a scrum today, Quebec's immigration minister confirmed that there had been no consultation.

Instead of doing one thing and voting the opposite, will the minister cancel his press conference and consult Quebec before announcing his immigration targets?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, that is not true. We are constantly consulting with Quebec. There is direct communication between our public services every day.

I would also like to point out that I have spoken directly to the Quebec minister about these targets, the integration target and sponsorship for refugees. I have asked her to make an extra effort.

We are certainly consulting. We disagree sometimes, but I would ask the member to look at the plan that talks about the Canada-Québec accord and says that that is to be determined. The entire determination process remains in the hands of Quebec City. It is perfectly good consultation.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there has to be a limit to spouting nonsense. Quebec was not consulted about the federal government's immigration targets. Quebec has said as much. This means that the targets the federal government is going to announce do not take into account Quebec's integration capacity.

Does the minister know how many additional classrooms will have to be opened to accommodate the children of families immigrating here in 2024? Does he know how many teachers, psychotherapists, speech therapists and special educators will need to be hired?

If the minister does not have those answers, will he at least cancel his press conference and look for the answers with Quebec and the provinces?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, in an hour and a bit, people will have a chance to see the plan, and I would ask them to take a look at it. As for Quebec, the Canada-Quebec accord has been in place since 1991. Under this agreement, we send Quebec $700 million a year. Do we demand accountability? No, we do not, because that is the relationship we have with Quebec. Perhaps we should be asking questions, but the fact is that Quebec has complete freedom to use this money to adapt its integration capacity, and we are going to support it.

Taxation

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has made it very clear that only those who vote for Liberals will get relief on their home heating, which has divided Canada and undermined the fight against the climate crisis. Canadians want to do the right thing, but they cannot, for example, navigate the onerous government programs for a heat pump. They end up giving up.

Therefore, instead of dividing Canadians, will the Prime Minister tax the excess profits of oil and gas companies and use that revenue to help all Canadians?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, once again, I would encourage the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party to do his homework. In terms of an onerous program, people who actually are going to be in receipt of a heat pump go in and sign up online; three days later, they get a cheque to ensure that they can do the installation. There is no onerous program. At the end of the day, we have developed a plan to address a key affordability issue in a manner that is consistent with fighting climate change. It is good public policy, and we will carry it out.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government has been clear. Anyone who wants a bit of help with their home heating has to vote Liberal. Duplessis would be proud. Who benefits? The big oil and gas companies benefit as they keep taking in federal subsidies and raking in record profits.

Will the Prime Minister put a stop to these Duplessis-style politics and give all Canadians some help?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the program we are talking about today applies across Canada and it is very important. We introduced a program to ensure affordability, but also to make sure that we could fight climate change. It is a good policy that is very important for all Canadians.

Carbon Pricing

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I have another question for the Prime Minister. The lone Liberal MP in Edmonton was asked, “Western Canada is being left out of this whole home heating oil and the exemption for home heat from the carbon price. Should natural gas be added to that?” He said that he is not concerned at all. He then went on to say that if Albertans want to have the exemption, they can switch their furnaces over to oil. Does the Prime Minister agree with the member from Edmonton Centre that Albertans should spend thousands of dollars putting in a more emitting source of energy just to avoid paying the carbon tax?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

Mr. Speaker, the hockey team that plays in my home city is called the Oilers and we just handed a defeat to his former team, the Flames.

That being said, if I misspoke, let me be clear in this House. Albertans right now can actually use a federal program to go from natural gas to a heat pump with a $5,000 credit from our government or a $40,000 interest-free loan. It is the green homes program and the green loans program. If Premier Smith wants to extend free heat pumps to Albertans to get off of heating oil, she can join Atlantic premiers and work with the feds to make exactly that happen.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand why the Prime Minister did not want to stand up and defend that comment from the Liberal member.

This comment is similar to what we heard from Paul McLauchlin. He is the president of the Rural Municipalities of Alberta. He said, “If I have an understanding that I can buy heating oil—which is effectively kerosene—and I can buy it with no carbon levy, I would change all my grain drying and my barn heating to heating oil.... I'll tell you right now, there are folks doing the math.”

Therefore, the government is now incentivizing farms to spend money shifting from natural gas drying and heating to oil heating, which has higher emissions. This makes no sense. Why will the Prime Minister not just shake off this lunacy and axe the tax?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member does not understand this: Heating oil is two to four times as expensive as natural gas. It is a particularly acute issue with respect to heating and affordability. He should also be aware that the exemption is for three years, during which time, people are expected to implement heat pumps to ensure that they actually have an affordable way to address this issue, but in a manner that is consistent with fighting climate change. This is certainly something that the hon. leader either does not believe in or does not think is important.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, while the question was for the Prime Minister, I am glad the member answered, because he reminded Atlantic Canadians that it is just a pause. If they re-elect the Prime Minister, they will get a massive tax increase on their home heating oil.

Where is all the money going? We now know that 60% of Canadians pay more in carbon taxes than they get back in rebates. The difference is funding the wasteful government. We now know that a senior member of the Liberal government's bureaucracy compared their billion-dollar green fund to the sponsorship scandal, saying that it was massive “incompetence”.

Who got rich, and who will have to pay?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry welcomes the decision of the Auditor General to conduct an audit. He also welcomes the invitation he received to committee next week, where he will be answering Conservative questions with respect to this entire issue. I would also note that the organization has agreed to co-operate fully and is enabling all documents and information to be provided to the Auditor General.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, now the carbon tax chaos continues. The incoming leader of the Liberal Party, Mark Carney, has weighed in and said, “I would have looked for other ways to provide ... support than the route chosen, not least because what is important is that clarity in terms of the overall plan, the overall direction.” Now we have an incoming Liberal leader taking potshots at an outgoing Liberal Prime Minister who is in hiding.

How much longer can Canadians deal with this carbon tax chaos before we get an election and choose a common-sense Conservative plan?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Colleagues, before I give the floor to the parliamentary secretary to answer the question, I would like to remind all members, out of profound respect for the position and office of Leader of the Opposition, to please take a look at the statement I made regarding decorum in the House, in terms of understanding what all members have to do in their work.

The parliamentary secretary has the floor.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity]

Mr. Speaker, it is 2023, and if someone does not have a plan to fight climate change and protect the environment, then they do not have a plan for the economy or for affordability either. It is very clear that the Conservative plan is just to cut funding for social services, such as the Canada child benefit, seniors funding and the dental benefit, which has just recently surpassed helping 200,000 children. The Conservative plan to fix global inflation by cutting people's services is not going to work. It is risky, irresponsible and absolutely reckless, as is the Conservative leader.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Again, I would like to remind all members, in their questions and answers, to make sure they are not impugning individual members. On matters regarding their courage, intelligence or even their presence in the House, I ask members to exercise restraint and decorum. We can have passionate debates in the House and do so within the rules that have been established by this place.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, instead of answering my questions and engaging me in debate, the Prime Minister forces yet another random Liberal to read off PMO talking points about the carbon tax payoff that is unfolding in this country. He has one province threatening lawsuits and another not collecting the tax at all. He has NDP provincial governments and parties turning against him even though he is in coalition with that same party.

Will the Prime Minister end the carbon tax chaos and agree to my motion to simply treat every single Canadian equally and take the tax off so Canadians can keep the heat on?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether the hon. member is actually listening to the responses, but at the end of the day, heating oil is two to four times as expensive as natural gas. It is a particularly acute issue with respect to affordability. We have come up with a program that will enable folks to put in place something that will save them significant money while being consistent with the fight against climate change.

It is, I would say, appalling that in this day and age we still have a party in the chamber, the Conservative Party of Canada, that has no policy on and not even any belief in the reality of climate change. It is time that changed, and Canadians will make that happen in the next election.