Debates of Nov. 2nd, 2023

The Economy

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, he did not say whether his party supports him or not. That is interesting.

Senator Percy Downe said that this government is not serious about the economy, that it simply does not care, and that it would throw money at anything that crossed its mind. The resulting interest rate hikes, increasing cost of living and huge debt do not seem to concern it. Even the Liberals agree that this Prime Minister is not worth the cost.

Is Mark Carney the only one who can save the Liberal government?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, everyone is fully aware that we made a choice that the Conservatives disagree with. We made the choice to invest in Canadians because confident countries invest in their people.

While they have been preaching austerity and cuts, we have been there to provide $10-a-day child care across the country. We have been there to provide the Canada child benefit. We have been there to invest in public transit and housing. We have been there to help our seniors and students. These are all programs that the Conservative Party voted against. They continue to vote against dental care for children. They continue to vote against helping Canadians in need.

We will continue to be there for Canadians every day.

Carbon Pricing

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, when asked why the Prime Minister paused the pain of the carbon tax for only some people, the Liberal rural affairs minister said that other people should have elected Liberal MPs if they wanted to be able to afford heating their home or feeding their kids. The Prime Minister has not denounced that viewpoint. In fact, he is doubling down on punishing people elsewhere.

Liberal MPs in Sudbury, Thunder Bay, North Bay and Sault Ste. Marie have starving constituents who are worried about the heat going out as well. Will they have a free vote on my motion to keep the heat on and take the tax off for everyone this Monday?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as a government, we are phasing out the use of coal because it is dirty and bad for the environment. We are now moving on phasing out home heating oil because it is dirtier, more expensive and is disproportionately relied upon by lower-income Canadians who do not have other choices.

Over half a million Ontarians heat their homes with home heating oil. This program and this approach will not just give them a break, in working with the Government of Ontario, but will deliver heat pumps for Canadians right across the country. I invite Saskatchewan to work with us as well.

We need to get Canadians off home heating oil and that is what we are going to do.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, with an answer like that he is clearly not worth the cost.

The Prime Minister did not answer the question as to whether or not his MPs would have a free vote, which begs the question whether his NDP MPs will get a free vote.

The Saskatchewan NDP has just voted to endorse my motion to give equal tax-free heat to all Canadians. That is the position of the NDP in B.C., Manitoba and Alberta as well. The question is whether the NDP will vote against its cash-strapped constituents in favour of the Prime Minister.

Could the Prime Minister tell us if this vote is part of the coalition agreement or does the NDP have the freedom to vote for its constituents?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition wants to talk about places across the country. Let us talk about them: 20,000 Saskatchewanians heat their homes with home heating oil, 50,000 Albertans do and about 100,000 British Columbians do. That is dirty, it is more polluting and it is more expensive, particularly for the predominantly lower-income families that rely on this.

That is why we are moving forward to replace them with heat pumps. We are working with the provinces to deliver free heat pumps for lower-income families so they can save money and fight pollution at the same time.

This is about helping Canadians as we fight climate change, for which the Leader of the Opposition has no plan.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, this is helping the Prime Minister save his political bacon, and we know that because he has now admitted that his carbon tax is not worth the cost of oil for some people in some regions. My motion simply says that all Canadians should get the same break. After all, a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister indicated that he wants to have a carbon tax election on his plan to quadruple the tax to 61¢ a litre on heat, gas and groceries. Therefore, will he confirm whether he considers my motion to keep the heat on and take the tax off a confidence vote?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, home heating oil is dirtier, more expensive and more relied on by lower-income Canadians across the country. Across the country, 1.3 million households rely on home heating oil. That is why we are working with the provinces that want it to replace them for free with heat pumps. That is what this is about.

The Leader of the Opposition is making a serious mistake if he thinks Canadians are not concerned about the environment or that Canadians do not know that protecting the environment does go hand in hand with creating good jobs and prosperity for them across the country. That is a conversation I look forward to continuing to have over the next two years with Canadians.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Government of Quebec announced its immigration targets, in other words, how many people Quebec believes it will be able to integrate and teach French, and the federal government did the same. The two governments are not at all on the same page.

In the meantime, however, I asked all members, including the Minister of Immigration and the Prime Minister, whether they would consult Quebec before setting the 2024 targets. The Prime Minister said yes and the Minister of Immigration said yes.

Am I to understand that the targets announced yesterday are temporary and that they will speak to Quebec?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague knows full well, for years we have been engaging with the provinces, including Quebec, to talk about immigration, their wishes, their capacity and the future of immigration across the country. Quebec, of course, sets its own immigration targets.

Our immigration plan will continue to strengthen the system and extend the benefits of immigration to communities in Quebec and across the country. We also provide hundreds of millions of dollars every year to help integrate newcomers, including French integration.

We will always work hand in hand with Quebec and the other provinces when it comes to immigration.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is the way it has always been, in health care too. The government claims that it has talked to the provinces, but it never really listens to them or makes any changes based on what they say.

However, yesterday, the government voted and said yes. It said that it would consult Quebec before setting the immigration targets that the minister was in the process of announcing. For consistency's sake, the government ought to talk to someone in Quebec City because, if it does not, it needs to realize that Quebec will no longer be able to ensure that immigrants who settle there are taught French. In other words, the government will be reducing Quebec's weight within the Canadian federation.

We will draw our own conclusions.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I just said, every year, we provide Quebec with hundreds of millions of dollars to help teach its immigrants French. Quebec sets its immigration targets, and we will always continue to work with Quebec. We have been working with Quebec on immigration for months and years, and we will continue to do so.

Yes, we supported the motion that said that we will continue to talk to Quebec and all the other provinces when establishing targets. We will continue to do that in a responsible, reasonable and ambitious manner for the future of our country.

Taxation

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the weather is getting colder. Heating costs are putting pressure on families' already tight budgets, but this government says that it is only willing to help people if they voted Liberal. That is shameful. The NDP's plan to eliminate the GST on home heating would put more money back into everyone's pockets across the country, while also protecting the environment. A few minutes ago, the Conservatives once again said no to this NDP proposal.

Will the Liberals eliminate the GST on home heating to help families who are already struggling?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I know that my hon. colleague truly cares about the environment and climate change and that he wants to help Canadians deal with the cost of living at the same time. That is why he understands that, for the more than 100,000 households in British Columbia that rely on heating oil, this is a big challenge. It is a big challenge for their wallets, as well as for the environment. We have an approach that will replace these oil furnaces in British Columbia with heat pumps, which will help families with affordability and help the planet. I look forward to continuing to work with the member.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal member for Kings—Hants said we should do our homework when it comes to heat pumps.

Who did do his homework? Perry from Smithers, B.C. He is a teacher, after all. For a year and a half now he has been trying to jump through all these government hoops to get a $5,000 heat pump rebate.

I talked to the folks at Efficiency Canada, and they told me, unequivocally, that the government's heat pump program does not work for people on low incomes.

Will the Prime Minister commit to offering the same deal he just offered Atlantic Canadians for heat pumps to all Canadians who heat with fossil fuels?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yes, that is exactly what we are doing. We are offering the same program for heat pumps that we have with Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador to all provinces across the country. All they have to do is join us in making sure we can deliver heat pumps, for free, to low-income Canadians. There are 1.3 million households across the country, half a million in Quebec, a quarter of a million in Ontario and tens of thousands across the provinces, that need those heat pumps to clean the air and to save their wallet some money.

That is exactly what we are doing. I look forward to working with B.C. and all other provinces on this program.

Carbon Pricing

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said Tuesday that there would absolutely not be more carbon tax exemptions under his watch, but Canadians struggling with the high cost of gas, groceries and heating their home want to have a word about that.

After eight years of the Liberal-NDP government, the Prime Minister is only giving relief to a lucky 3% of the country, specifically where his poll numbers are in the gutter. He has already admitted that the carbon tax makes life harder.

Will the Prime Minister let his MPs have a free vote on our motion on Monday to keep the heat on and take the tax off for all Canadians?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I noted the phrase, “a lucky 3%”. These are people who pay two to four times the cost of natural gas. These are folks whose costs went up by 75% during 2022. These are not the lucky 3%.

We have focused on people who actually have a strong affordability challenge because of the inordinate cost of heating oil. We have put in place a measure that would ensure affordability, but will do so in a manner that fights climate change. Truly, “a lucky 3%”, really?

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what the Prime Minister does when he is desperate and flailing, not confident about his leadership.

Canadians in other parts of the country now have one more reason to regret voting for Liberals, like in northern Ontario where a minister at the cabinet table has sold out her own neighbours and left them out in the cold.

Will she vote with those who sent her to this place and scrap the tax on all home heating or will she vote with the Prime Minister and remind Thunder Bay that she is just not worth the cost?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, do we know what she will do? She will stand with the folks who are having an affordability challenge related to heating oil. It will apply in every province and territory in this country where provinces step up to co-deliver with the federal government. It is a plan that will address the short-term issues for those folks who are most pressed, but it will do so in a manner that will save significant dollars in the long term. It will address it in a manner consistent with fighting the existential threat of climate change.

I say this again in the House: It is a shameful thing that, in this country, we still have a political party that does not believe in the reality of climate change and has no plan to address it.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what is actually shameful is how the Liberals continue to divide Canadians every chance they get. Now it is about heat. Sigi from Dufferin just paid $100 in carbon tax to heat his home for one month. In the Maritimes, Sigi would pay zero. That is dividing Canadians. Sigi is on a fixed income. He cannot afford it. They are basically saying he should freeze in the dark.

Why do the Liberals not stop dividing Canadians? Will they take the tax off so Sigi can keep the heat on?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the only folks in this chamber who are dividing Canadians are from the Conservative Party of Canada. We are focused on addressing a significant affordability challenge. Heating oil costs two to four times what natural gas does, and it appreciated by 75% in 2022. It is time that the Conservatives stop playing partisan games and focus on good public policy that addresses the critical issues that Canadians are facing, but in a manner that protects affordability and addresses climate change. Once again, I say it is shameful that they have no policy to address climate change.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a minister making $300,000 a year, who gets driven around in a limo, says it is a political stunt when I talk about a retired senior who cannot pay the carbon tax. This behaviour by the Liberals is disgusting.

Not all Liberals have to behave that way; on Monday, there will be a common-sense Conservative motion to axe the tax. They do not have to behave like a limousine Liberal minister. They can stand up for their constituents. They can vote to take the tax off, so people like Sigi can keep the heat on.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, Minister of Labour and Seniors]

Mr. Speaker, I am in the awkward position of contradicting my colleague in the House. In fact, on the other side of the House, they do have a plan. Some of them owe their seats to that plan. It was a carbon tax plan. It was the Erin O'Toole Christmas wish book of green things that the Conservative Party will pick out just in time for the holiday season. Once again, with the price on pollution, we put cold hard cash back into the pockets of Canadians, not the O'Toole Christmas wish book.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Order. Colleagues, I am sure all members would like to hear the question.

The hon. member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles.