Debates of Dec. 7th, 2023

Opposition Motion—Carbon Tax on Farmers, First Nations and Families

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, 130 first nations in Ontario alone are suing the government because the carbon tax is not working. The member can split the words as much as he wants to. At the end of the day, indigenous peoples in Canada are not doing as well because we know the carbon tax impacts them. We know that it impacts the cost of heating their homes, the production of food and getting the food to first nations, especially in remote and rural areas.

For anyone to ever question my support for first nations is laughable. I will continue to work with the incredible member for Winnipeg Centre when it comes to missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. Please, let us not be so petty.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this morning, two of Canada's largest grocery retailer CEOs testified that the carbon tax applied to the farmer, the trucker, the food producer and themselves will get passed on to the consumer, contrary to one of the questions from a member across the way to my hon. colleague from Elgin—Middlesex—London, that the grocery retailers are putting the carbon tax in their pockets.

It is being passed on to the consumer. Would my colleague agree?

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as a daughter of a farmer, a niece of a farmer and a member of my community, I am absolutely disgusted that we would ever try to question farmers on putting money in their pockets. They, like any other business person, have the right to make a profit. They are working hard to make sure there is food on the table.

I very much question questioning farmers. We have a program that is not working. At the end of the day, we need to axe the tax. It is on the entire cost of food production, from the input to the consumer. We know it goes along the entire way.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I will pick up on where that last question and answer left off.

The member was informed that, in committee, committee members were told by grocery chains that the carbon tax would be passed on to consumers, but I would inform those members that this is why we give the rebate to consumers so that they end up benefiting from it, and this is where I will focus my comments today.

I am getting pretty tired of debate after debate on the same issue with Conservatives coming forward as though they are somehow here to look out for the little guy and for the people who are struggling. They are nowhere near doing any of that. Everything they do and everything they say is exactly the opposite of that.

My colleagues from the NDP bring up an excellent point, which is that Conservatives ran on pricing pollution not just in 2021 under the leadership of Erin O'Toole, but they also ran on it in 2008 under the leadership of Stephen Harper. So a number of Conservatives have actually run on it twice. Then they come into this House and try to suggest—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

On a point of order, the hon. member for Brantford—Brant.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we often hear from this member characterizing the entire Conservative team as the team that ran on this. I can say that, personally, I did not. I know that several of my colleagues did not as well—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I appreciate that point of debate, but it is not a point of order.

I will also remind the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands that he has five minutes remaining before we have to go to Statements By Members.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, he ran on it in 2021. It is in the platform, and I have the Conservative Party platform right here. If he had a problem with it, he is going to have to direct me to where—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There is a point of order from the hon. member for Brantford—Brant.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the last time I checked, the member for Kingston and the Islands was not part of my election team, my readiness team. Again, he is—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Okay, we are still getting into debate. I would suggest to the hon. member, if we are going to be interrupting one another, he should read pieces out of the Standing Orders so that they are actually points of order.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member is operating under good instruction from his whip's desk to keep calling out points of order on me. Congratulations to him.

However, in the document, “The True North Strong and Free”, Stephen Harper's plan for Canadians, there is actually reference to pricing pollution in here through the cap-and-trade model that Ontario, Quebec and a number of states in the United States adopted. That member ran in 2021 on Erin O'Toole's plan to price pollution—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There is a point of order from the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 18, a member cannot stand in this place and talk disparagingly about other members in this place. I ask that he monitor his language very carefully. Rather than being a disruptive individual in the House and using bully-boy tactics, he actually should be more parliamentarian in his address to the House of Commons.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I appreciate the help. I would also remind people to be very judicious with the words they are using and how they are characterizing other parties in this House of Commons.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, all of the Conservatives ran on that platform. Now, if some of them decided sometime during that election campaign that they chose—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There is another point of order from the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Kingston and the Islands just threatened this side. I do not know if that is common practice to do that or allowed in the House, but I wish he would retract it and apologize.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I did not hear that part, but I will go back and listen.

I would suggest that we are getting close to two o'clock when we have to do Statements By Members, so let us get the hon. member to at least five minutes into his speech.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member is referring to when the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman stood up and I said, “Would you like me to bring up Ukraine?”, but I was not going to do that until the second half of my speech after question period. I will hold off and I will be judicious in my timing, but if the member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman would like to hear that, I invite him to stick around after question period.

The reality is that all the Conservatives ran on pricing pollution. Each and every one of them ran on pricing pollution. Now, if they chose not to, then they should table for this House where in their campaign literature they were going against Mr. O'Toole. I wait with anticipation for that.

However, here is the reality of what Conservatives continually miss. It is the fact that many more people, eight out of 10 people, get back more than they pay in. According to Statistics Canada, 94%—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. That is factually inaccurate. If one reads the distributional analysis provided by the PBO, that point—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

We keep getting into debate, and this is debate.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. They should stop harassing people who are trying to give legitimate speeches. Shame on every one of them.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

In the House, sometimes it seems that what goes around comes around. What I would suggest to everyone, and I will ask this personally, is that when there are points of order, they actually be points of order, not points of debate. It makes it a lot easier and allows people to complete the debate we are trying to have on the floor.

I thank the hon. members for trying to help out, but let us ensure that they are real points of order.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, who definitely gets back more than they put in? The Leader of the Opposition. This is an individual who lives in a government-funded house. This is an individual who has a private driver.

I would like to know—