House of Commons Hansard #159 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was illness.

Topics

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6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, absolutely we need to support individuals. We know that in the recent health care proposal from the federal government to the premiers of the provinces, there was no mention of mental health care support. That is very unfortunate. The Liberals had a wonderful opportunity to expand on and incorporate it into the funding they were providing to the territories and provinces and they chose not to do that.

In addition, with respect to providing supports for folks suffering from a mental health crisis, we know that the cost of living has become a huge burden for individuals and has intensified their feelings of hopelessness and exasperation. Under the Liberal government, we have seen the cost of living increase significantly, and we are going to see it increase more with its proposals for additional taxes.

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6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to the last answer, and I have a question on it. We have heard in many speeches today by the opposition that it is all about supporting people, yet every time our government has provided supports, whether it was the one-time income support or assistance for housing, the members opposite have voted against those initiatives. I am not certain how they can have it both ways by suggesting that we need to be there for people in their time of need.

Why do opposition members continue to vote against the initiatives put forward by the government that are helping the very people they are referencing in their speeches today?

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6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek for that really good question.

On the surface, it might appear as though we are not supporting the people he made reference to, who need the help I spoke about in my speech. However, that is not the case. What we want to do is give people their freedom back, like the freedom to make choices, which the Liberal-NDP coalition has taken away from them. We want to give people back the freedom to pay for gas and buy the food they require for their children, rather than relying on food banks and skipping meals. We want to give people their lives and their freedom back, which would be a huge asset to their mental health. That is why we as Conservatives have been opposing the reckless spending of the Liberal government.

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6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, in the opening part of his speech, my colleague said that he would be voting in favour of extending the deadline by another year. Is he optimistic that in that one year the government will be able to develop regulations, safeguards and guidelines to assist the medical profession in the responsible application of medical assistance in dying?

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6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I partially answered that question in my speech. I am voting in favour of Bill C-39, which will provide for an extension of one year. I think the government needs to sit back, take a pause and listen to what the experts and Canadians are saying. Is this legislation they really want? Is it something we should move forward with?

I hope the government takes the time to reflect on this. Based on the comments the Minister of Justice has made in this House and in the media, I am not optimistic that he is going to do that. I think for him this is a one-year delay of his plan of implementation to provide MAID to people who are suffering with mental illness. I hope he takes the time, together with his party, to re-evaluate moving ahead with this legislation. In fact, I hope they stop it, because it is wrong.

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6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, there is something very broken in Canada today. I could talk about inflation being at 40-year highs. I could talk about interest rate hikes in the last 12 months that are doubling the average mortgage payments and making residential rental rates out of reach for many workers in Canadian cities that need workers. I could talk about the housing affordability crisis and I could talk about crime. We have talked about these things.

We are now learning in recent polls that two-thirds of Canadians feel that Canada is in fact broken. One of the pillars of our society they feel is broken is our health care system. Canadians used to be proud of our universal, world-class, leading-edge health care system. Now people wait for hours for emergency care and months for specialist appointments.

This does not line up with the view that we as Canadians have of ourselves as a prosperous nation. There is indeed something broken, and nowhere is this more evident than in our mental health care arena.

We are in the midst of a serious opioid crisis right across this country, and certainly in British Columbia, my home province. Decriminalization, safe supply and anti-stigma campaigns have had, at best, very little positive effect. At worst, they have contributed to the skyrocketing number of opioid deaths in the last eight years. Clearly, what the government has been doing has not been working.

It is in this environment that we are now, as parliamentarians, talking about whether MAID, medical assistance in dying, should be made available to those whose only underlying health condition is a mental illness. Indeed, there is something broken.

There was a time when those suffering a mental illness got the help they needed. I want to note an editorial that ran in last weekend's Vancouver Sun by editorial writer Douglas Todd. He writes often but not often about himself or his family. This is a very personal story.

When Mr. Todd was a young man, his father Harold, a World War II vet, was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He spent many stable years in metro Vancouver's Riverview Hospital, where he received three meals a day, where he was kept safe and where nurses administered and monitored his medications. He was stable. Riverview was not perfect but it kept Harold off the streets.

Harold died 23 years ago, according to the story, right around the time that the provincial government started taking the view that hospitals and boarding houses for the mentally ill were inhumane and paternalistic, and that patients with mental illness should not be out of sight, out of mind, but should be allowed to live in a community. These facilities have been largely wound down and replaced with nothing, which has led to disaster.

The younger Todd noted that last year alone, 2,272 British Columbia residents died of toxic street drugs. He says this: “If my dad had not had stable housing, he would have been vulnerable to such a fate.” That is where mental health is in Canada in 2023.

That brings me now to the question of recovery and the incurability of mental health issues. A number of my colleagues have spoken about that.

A member of my community shared with me a chilling story of how her daughter struggled with her mental health years ago. Through a proverbial turn of events, she happened upon a hospital during a serious bout of suicidality. My constituent is confident that if her daughter had been offered MAID in the hospital that day, she would have agreed to it. Instead, she found hope for a better tomorrow and access to real support. She has now recovered and is living a full life as a wife, mother and member of our community.

This question of possible recovery is one that experts disagree on. What constitutes irremediability for mental illness? When is a mental illness incurable and how do we discern that? Our special joint parliamentary committee on MAID looked into these very troubling questions. One witness shared that he likely would have chosen MAID in his darkest days but now has a rich life with successful medication and therapy.

Dr. Vrakas gave the opinion that for people struggling with mental illness, offering MAID to them is a “clear signal of disengagement from mental illness”.

Dr. Sareen from the Association of Chairs of Psychiatry said in December 2022 to the committee that, “We're in the middle of an opioid epidemic. And we're in the middle of a mental health pandemic. Post-COVID, wait times for access to treatment are the highest ever.”

We cannot pretend that patients have a free choice between MAID and treatment when treatment is simply not accessible.

However, no consensus has been reached about such pivotal questions as: can this person be cured? There is a huge risk in assuming that they cannot. The reality is, providing MAID to a person suffering from mental illness is an irreversible reaction to a condition that we do not know is incurable.

Dr. Maher summed this up perfectly in his testimony to the committee when said, “The rallying cry is autonomy at all costs, but the inescapable cost is people dying who would get better. What number of mistaken guesses is acceptable to you?”

Dr. Mishara added that he has personally known countless people who have “convincingly explained that they wanted to die to end their suffering and are now thankful to be alive. If you proceed to allow MAID for persons with a mental illness, how many people who would later have been happy to be alive are you willing to allow to die?”

There are, of course, experts on the other side of the debate who assure us that we can discern between people who apply for MAID and people who suffer from suicidal ideation; experts who believe that, when a person is depressed and can see no brighter future, we should not try to change their mind by offering care, medication and therapy.

However, I am confident that this lack of consensus alone should be enough to definitively say no, that expanding MAID to those whose only underlying condition is mental health is not a responsible public policy choice. Instead, let us fix our health care system. Let us see this government deliver on its forgotten promise to fund mental health. Let us open or reopen our assisted living homes for people suffering from mental illness. Let us take care of our mentally ill people. Let us give hope for a better tomorrow and the support needed to live through today.

The very narrow question that we are addressing today is whether we will vote in favour of a bill that would extend the deadline. The government has a two-year deadline. That time has come and gone. I think March 17 is the deadline, which will soon be upon us. Do we give ourselves another year to develop the guidelines, regulations and safeguards to make sure that MAID for mentally ill patients is administered in as responsible a manner as possible?

To be honest, I am torn on this. I voted against MAID in the first place, but like my colleague, I will be voting in favour of this, because I am optimistic that we can at least come up with regulations that will put safeguards in place to manage this very troubling public policy question.

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6:45 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

Uqaqtittiji, my question is on a topic that the member did not really speak to, but he is from British Columbia and is aware of the huge indigenous population in British Columbia.

Does the member agree that there need to be provisions or regulations added to make sure that indigenous peoples are protected better, especially in the mental health care system, which does not recognize broadly enough their culture and the need for reconciliation? Mental health services need to be unique and more tailored for indigenous peoples. I wonder if the member can share his thoughts on that.

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6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, yes indeed I would completely support the government doing whatever is necessary to make sure that indigenous people, and indeed all Canadians, receive the mental health care that they need.

I gave the example of Mr. Todd's father, which I think is just a great example of where Canada used to do this much better, but for some ideological reason, we have abandoned that. It is a disaster.

I am very sensitive to the fact that indigenous people are disproportionately represented in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. People suffering with their mental health need to have the care that is necessary for them to recover. Additionally, I have worked with the Kwantlen First Nation community in my riding to help them develop culturally sensitive seniors housing, seniors care, because I recognize that is absolutely necessary.

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6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB

Madam Speaker, just over a year ago we had an election campaign, and in the Liberal platform there was nothing about the extension of medical assistance in dying for people with mental illness. What there was in the Liberal platform was a very clear promise to fund a Canada mental health transfer, $4.5 billion over five years, of which it is very clearly laid out, and I think it is on page 75 in the costing document, that by now almost $1 billion was to have been transferred already. We have not seen a cent of that almost $1 billion that was to have been transferred.

I wonder if the hon. member could speak to that disconnect that has a Liberal government that is not fulfilling its own promise to properly fund mental health but instead has moved forward and now is needing to pause, having moved forward on extending medical assistance in dying to people with mental illness.

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6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, indeed Canadians are disappointed the government has failed to deliver on its promise to fund mental health to the extent that it is necessary, and they are doubly disappointed now the government is now talking about expanding medical assistance in dying for mentally ill people. They need help; they do not need assistance in dying.

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6:50 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, I asked my Conservative colleague, who spoke just prior to this colleague of mine, the same question I will ask him. It is in relation to trying to deter one of the main contributors to the mental health crisis in Canada, and his colleagues have mentioned this all day, which is poverty.

New Democrats have tabled a solution, which is a guaranteed livable basic income. I understand the Conservatives might disagree with that, but what solutions can the Conservative Party offer, and not criticisms but solutions, to ensure those who are most vulnerable, those living in poverty and those who do not have the means to survive actually have that support so they can live with dignity?

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6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Madam Speaker, what is not the solution is to allow mentally ill people to live in tent cities or in squalor in some of the single-room occupancy hotels in the Downtown Eastside. This is terrible. The government is funding those homes, but it is inadequate. It is just slightly better than living in a tent. I completely agree that—

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6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We need to resume debate.

The hon. member for Fundy Royal has the floor.

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February 13th, 2023 / 6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak here today to an important bill.

We have to ask ourselves: why are we here this evening debating Bill C-39? What brought us to this place?

What brought us to this place was a government, once again, that had acted completely irresponsibly and with great overreach, ignoring the experts, ignoring Parliament and ignoring the most vulnerable.

We will back up a little bit. Bill C-7, which expanded medical assistance in dying in this country, went through the House of Commons and went through our committee, the justice committee.

Accompanying any piece of government legislation is a charter statement from the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. A charter statement is the government's certification that the legislation complies with our Canadian Charter of Rights.

I want to read, just briefly, from that charter statement. The minister's charter statement stated, for Bill C-7, that it excluded individuals with mental illness from eligibility to access MAID, because of:

the inherent risks and complexity that the availability of MAID would present for individuals who suffer solely from mental illness. First, evidence suggests that screening for decision-making capacity is particularly difficult, and subject to a high degree of error, in relation to persons who suffer from a mental illness serious enough to ground a request for MAID.

At the time, the minister said that there was not the public support nor was the infrastructure in place to allow medical assistance in dying for individuals whose sole underlying condition is mental illness.

The bill, Bill C-7, then goes to the Senate, the unelected Senate. The Senate amends the bill to include mental illness with no safeguards, no accounting for the fact that it was an extreme broadening of Canada's MAID legislation and would, in fact, lead Canada to become an outlier.

That bill came back to the House and was passed by the government, with the opposition from our Conservative caucus members. Conservative parliamentarians were strongly opposed, because we knew that MAID should not be expanded to those who are suffering with mental illness.

When we are reaching out to those who are struggling, for example through Bell Let's Talk, and I see members of Parliament posting that on their social media, the terrible message that it sends is that we as a Parliament think that, for those suffering with mental illness, offering them death should be an option.

One may say, well, that is not what this is about. Unfortunately, that is exactly what it is about. It is already happening. Many of us were horrified to hear of bureaucrats from the Canadian government in a department to which we entrust vulnerable veterans, veterans suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder. Can one imagine the family of a veteran who goes to Veterans Affairs for help and, without even mentioning the issue, is offered the opportunity to explore medical assistance in dying, when they are suffering from PTSD?

Imagine how that would make one feel, for someone who is struggling and who is trying to stay motivated to stay alive. The Minister of Veterans Affairs said that this was a one-off, that this was just one problematic situation.

Unfortunately, we found out that it was not a one-off and that it had happened many times, an untold number of times. We do not know how many times it happened. This is before medical assistance in dying is officially expanded to those suffering with mental illness.

Why are we here today? We are here because the Minister of Justice supported this and pushed this forward in spite of, we know, the Liberal caucus members who are very uncomfortable with this, because they know it is wrong.

Just today, we read an article saying that only three in 10 Canadians support the idea of allowing patients to seek MAID based purely on mental illness. Seven in 10 Canadians, the constituents that these Liberal caucus members represent, do not support this going forward.

The Minister of Justice said, in the same article, “To be honest, we could have gone forward with the original date, but we want to be sure. We want to be safe. We want everybody to be on the same page.”

The government is saying that it needs everyone to think like it does and that everyone needs to warm up to the idea. We do not accept that. We are going to continue to fight for the most vulnerable. This is happening right now in Canada. It is very upsetting for many of us.

Then we read, in the same article, of a report that noted that an Ontario man recently made news after he requested MAID, not because he wanted to die, but because he thought it was a preferable alternative to being homeless. A disabled Ontario woman also applied for MAID after seven years of applying for affordable housing in Toronto with no luck.

The abuse of this system is happening in real time. It is happening now. Because of the passage of the amended Bill C-7, we were set for next month to have, without any safeguards, those suffering from mental illness be eligible for MAID. Bill C-39 is the government's attempt to kick this down the road another year.

Where have we seen these U-turns? We saw them with Bill C-75 on bail changes. The government overstepped, and now it is reversing course. On the gun legislation, the government realized there was a big overreach, and now it is time to climb down from that.

Canadians suffering with mental illness deserve better. They deserve a thoughtful approach. I stood in the House not long ago, back in October 2020, and Parliament was observing mental health week. Unfortunately, at that time, parliamentarians did not know that the Liberal government would soon include mental illness in its planned expansion.

The point in that speech was that one of the key foundations of Canadian society, in our collective identity, is that we are a caring and compassionate country. Canadians, many in this chamber, do not see anything caring or compassionate about making people who are living with mental illness eligible for medically assisted death.

What message does it send to Canadians who live with mental illness? They are not people who are at the end of their lives. These are not people who would otherwise die. Why is the Liberal government pushing to include them in its medical assistance in dying regime?

The president of the Canadian Medical Association said, “We have a responsibility, we believe, as physicians and as society, to make sure that all vulnerable Canadians have access to proper care and the support they need.” I listed two scenarios, and we all have these scenarios in our ridings of individuals in need who are not getting the help they need.

If we have not succeeded to make sure that every Canadian living with mental illness has access to timely mental health care or adequate support, how is it that the government and the minister were comfortable in proceeding with broadening medical assistance in dying in such a radical way to take effect next month? All this despite the fact that this radical expansion of MAID was passed in early 2021. Conservatives have not given up the fight to do what is right and to protect vulnerable Canadians. We will not give up that fight.

The government failed to conduct a mandatory review of its own MAID legislation. That was supposed to happen, and it did not happen. The minister was to complete a charter statement. He did that on Bill C-7. The Bill C-7 charter statement very clearly rationalized why individuals suffering with mental illness were not included in Bill C-7. That is how they arrived at the constitutionality of the bill.

With this massive change, we do not see the updated charter statement. We do not hear the minister talking about the charter rights of those who are suffering. This is remarkable because the statement was written over two years ago.

A few days ago, more than 25 legal experts signed a letter addressed to the Prime Minister and members of the cabinet, challenging them to do better on this.

This expansion is wrong. Conservatives will support extending the coming into force by this year, but in that time, we will not give up the fight to protect the most vulnerable.

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7 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the government has said that its approach is to try to eliminate from consideration those who are suicidal. In other words, those who are suicidal cannot have MAID, but those who are not suicidal can have MAID.

On the face of it, this does not make any sense, because by definition a person who is seeking suicide, facilitated through the medical system, is suicidal. The government is trying to make distinctions between concepts where no real distinctions exist.

The reality of the government's policy is that people who are experiencing suicidal thoughts and mental health challenges will be able to go to the medical system, and they will be facilitated in that by the medical system.

Would the member have a comment on the wordplay, the misrepresentation being used by the government to mask what is truly going to be the reality under its program?

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7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right. If it were not such a serious issue, it would be laughable to suggest that those who are suicidal would not be eligible for assisted suicide. It makes no sense.

The medical assistance in dying expansion to include those who are suffering mental illness makes Canada an international outlier. Liberal members understand that, and that is why, internally, they are having such great discomfort.

Conservatives have to continue, and all parliamentarians should continue, the fight to support those who are suffering with mental illness to make sure that Canadians have the supports they need, and to ensure that no government is offering medical assistance in dying to someone suffering with mental illness.

My hon. colleague is quite right in pointing out how ludicrous the position is that the Liberals are putting forward.

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7:05 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Madam Speaker, I am wholeheartedly in support of the delay of expanding MAID for those who have mental disorders as the sole underlying condition.

We know that people deserve to have access to mental health supports, a home and food on the table. However, the Liberals have yet to transfer a dime of the mental health transfer to provinces and territories. To make matters worse, people do not have access to the basics to meet their basic needs.

I am wondering if the member could share what he is hearing from constituents in his riding about the benefits they would have with access to affordable housing, a guaranteed livable basic income, and the mental health supports that they need.

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7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Madam Speaker, the member is quite right. In such a void that exists right now in the supports that people need, the last thing that a government should be offering by way of help is medical assistance in dying.

In my speech, I shared a couple of stories, but these stories are repeated across the country and in many of our ridings. I think we should all be shocked by them. Someone who cannot afford housing is now seeking MAID. We have heard of people going to food banks looking for food and also asking about MAID. We hear of government employees, bureaucrats within the Department of Veterans Affairs offering individuals who are suffering with PTSD the opportunity for MAID.

We have to ensure that we are supporting our fellow Canadians, not offering them assisted dying.

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7:05 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, given the circumstances that, if we do not pass this bill, the provisions that were included in Bill C-7 will automatically come into force, I assume the member will be voting for Bill C-39.

What steps would he and his party want to see taken before March 2024 to ensure that adequate mental health supports are provided to all Canadians?

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7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Madam Speaker, the minister seems to be of the opinion that, if we just let people warm up to the idea, it will somehow become a good idea.

What I am saying is that this is not something that should be offered to Canadians this year, next year or the year after that. Offering medical assistance in dying to someone who is suffering with mental illness is not the right move forward. The member is quite right in saying there are rules within Bill C-7 that certainly do not contemplate this massive expansion, rules that apply to someone who is near death or has a reasonable foreseeability of death. Those rules are not made to apply to someone who is suffering with mental illness.

I would argue that all of us in this place should agree to do better and to fight, hand in hand, for those who are suffering with mental illness.

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7:10 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, it is always an honour to rise in the chamber. We have been discussing very profound issues today, perhaps some of the most profound issues we can ever discuss in Parliament, which are life and death. We are discussing the deaths of loved ones and the deaths of those who have no one to love them, yet this is all happening in the context of Bill C-39, which absolutely fails the test of profundity because it is a last-minute scramble. It is a papering over of an absolute failure to deal with something that should have been dealt with from the beginning, and the government continues to drop the ball, so I am going to speak a bit on how we got here.

It is really important in this debate to be careful with the language we use and to be careful with each other. I have heard it alluded to that this was some kind of Nazi regime, which is ridiculous. I have heard people talk about being loved and other people saying that we are not respecting rights. We are talking about the most intimate acts that a human experiences: birth and death.

It may sound odd to say that death is an intimate act. Death can be very traumatic. Death can be violent. Death can really tear families apart, but it can also bring families together. It is those moments of how we confront death and value death that really show who we are as a society. I am thinking right now of my sister Kathleen, who never made it out of her 50s. This week would have been her birthday. Nobody got a rawer deal in life than my sister. She got the bad end of the cards dealt to her every single time, and Doc Holliday had nothing on her when it came to facing down death.

I remember, as she was dying, that every morning she insisted that she look good, and her back was disintegrating from the cancer. One of us got the nerve to ask her about MAID. Man, she almost bit our heads off because that will to live, the will to be there one more day through the pain, was very, very profound.

I remember we sent her off singing Danny Boy because that is how we say goodbye. That is how we said goodbye to her husband when he died just before her, and to my dad and to my grandfather. Those are intimate moments. However, her death, and a natural death it was, was not somehow superior to those of people who have chosen MAID.

I think of my friend Liz from Vancouver Island. Wow, she was a force. She called me and said, “I can't live with the pain anymore and I'm choosing the date.” I spoke to her the day before she went. I had a sense that this was also a very profound moment.

I think of my friend Craig from CBC. I followed his last two weeks on Facebook because he posted every day. It was a very powerful thing to see someone choose that moment and choose how they were going to tell their story in those final two weeks.

We have to respect the choices that people make. The provision for MAID that was brought in was about ensuring that a fundamental respect was given. However, the flaw goes back to the fact that we are not just individuals. We are not just individuals with rights. We are brothers, fathers, uncles, sisters, aunts. We have come from family, and family is part of it because death without family is traumatic. That is a tearing apart.

We come from communities and a death in our community can be traumatic if we are not part of it. We come from neighbourhoods. I think of my father when he died, and he lived up in a townhouse project in north Scarborough. The neighbours were coming all hours of the day and night. They were Sri Lankan, Italian and South Asian families who could not speak English but who would say, “We brought food for Mr. John”, because he was part of the neighbourhood.

Those moments of death are about our involvement with each other, and what concerns me with the changes that have been suggested to MAID, is that it is about separating those who are vulnerable, those who are isolated and those with mental distress from the larger community, which needs to hold them and care for them. We as legislators cannot just say that it is an individual choice. This is a societal choice we are making, and we are making it now on behalf of very vulnerable people who need our back.

We cannot just say, “They are depressed. They have always been depressed. It is their right. They are individuals.” That is a failure of our obligation to be there as a neighbourhood, as a community, as a family to hold them and to get them through the darkness.

How did we get here? There is a lot of blame, enough to go around. We knew that the issue of medical assistance in dying was fundamentally an issue that Parliament had to confront. This was our job as legislators. It was a hard job, but it was our job. The Stephen Harper government just decided to ignore it. It did nothing on this, even though we all knew it was coming.

Then the Carter decision came down. The Supreme Court stepped in. I think it was a failure for the court to step in and do the job parliamentarians should have done. What it did was put a timeline, because it said it did not have faith in Parliament. I think it was also a mistake that the Supreme Court put such a short timeline, because these were profound decisions we were making.

Then, the original bill passed. I had a lot of questions about that bill. I had real concerns about what the protections were and how it would be implemented. When we talk about someone whose death is foreseeable, who is suffering from pain they cannot deal with it, how do we make sure that the legislation is not opening the door to something much broader? We were told at the time as parliamentarians to vote for the legislation and that we would have a review. I trusted that. I thought it was fair. I had a lot of questions, but I recognized there were legal obligations. We had the Supreme Court's ruling and Parliament would have a chance to look at this. We were never given that opportunity. Parliament was never given the right to see the effects of the legislation we brought in.

Then the Truchon decision came in, where a Quebec court said that, with the charter provisions, limiting it to a foreseeable death was not fair and we had to throw the legislation out. That was a time when I think it would have been reasonable for the federal government to bring that to the Supreme Court and ask for a review. It did not do that. It accepted it. I think of how many decisions went in favour of indigenous communities and the government went all the way to the Supreme Court every single time, but on the Truchon decision it did not. That was another opportunity for it to say that the legislation was being expanded, perhaps for good, perhaps for bad, and that it needed to be reviewed. Still, Parliament did not get the chance to do the review.

Then it went to the Senate, of all places, the unelected, unaccountable Senate. These are people who cannot be fired once they hired. They can do whatever they want. They can show up or not show up. They sent us back a bill that said they wanted Parliament, the elected members, to approve their change, which was that if people are depressed they should be able to die.

The government should have rejected that bill outright. It should have told the senators that, number one, they are not elected, not accountable, and that it was a ridiculous provision. It did not, so the bill sat on the Attorney General's desk, to come into effect this coming St. Patrick's Day. Now we are scrambling. We have to deal with this bill. It is not that we are responding to the bill; we are putting it off for another year.

I will support that, but I think it is a complete failure of our obligation to deal with something that needs to be reflected on and needs a profound answer from parliamentarians. It needs for us to stand up and ask what is right, what is fair and what provisions have to be in place to protect the vulnerable, particularly those who, in a moment of darkness, think they want to end their life.

I looked at the statistics of how MAID has been applied, and that alone would cause any parliamentarian to say that we should look at this. In 2016, 1,200 people died by MAID. It more than doubled in 2017. It more than doubled again in 2018, to over 5,000, and to over 10,950 in 2021. That is 30 people every single day in this country deciding to end their life.

That is double all the deaths from breast cancer in this nation. It is more than double the national suicide rate, and we are not going to reflect and say, wait a minute, is this opening the door to a place where we should not have gone, and where none of us thought we were going, when more than double the deaths of what we see in the suicide epidemic in this country are from people going to the doctor and saying they just do not want to be here anymore?

We could be told that there are protections and measurements in place, and we have been told that. I heard that at all the hearings. Then we get examples. I do not want to wave around one example and say that this is proof of what went wrong and the perfidy of the government, but I look at an Associated Press article on Alan Nichols, who had a history of depression and mental illness, and the police brought him to the hospital because they were afraid that he was going to kill himself. His family said that we had to help him, that he had a history of mental illness. He decided to apply for MAID and he was dead. That is an outrage. His family was asking for help for him, but he was treated as an individual in his own right who could just come into the hospital, brought in by the police, who were trying to keep him alive.

I think of the suicide rates that we have had in the communities I represent. Some of the highest suicide rates in the world are in northern Canada, and we have done jack about that.

In 2019, I brought Motion No. 174 to this House, calling for a national suicide prevention action plan, and every single member of the House voted for that. I heard all the speeches, that we have to protect the vulnerable, that we are going to be there for them, that the government has a role to play. We voted for that, and nothing was done, nothing. People continue to die.

Now we have this panic legislation to say, oh my God, let us just put off for another year the fact that people just have to be depressed and they can walk in and say “I want to die” and we will let them die. One could be depressed for all manner of reasons. In Belgium, which had medically assisted suicide for many years, one can claim it for PTSD. My God, will PTSD be a reason for it? It could be depression, or injury at work. Yes, it is a crappy life to have serious chronic pain. It is going to be a crappy life, especially if people do not have a proper pension or a proper place to live, but they will be able to go, as an individual, and say “I want to die.” Are we going to let that happen on our watch? I do not think so.

Again, this is not about my moral choices over someone else's moral choices. This is about who we are as a society, whom we protect and whom we leave on the sidelines.

In Motion No. 174, to establish a national suicide prevention action plan, there were many factors that we brought in because we met with organizations across the country. We talked about what it would take to have a holistic life-supporting system for people in crisis. We talked about establishing national guidelines for best practices in suicide prevention based on the evidence and effectiveness, in a Canadian context. We said we would work to establish culturally appropriate community-based suicide prevention programs by the representative organizations of the Inuit, first nations and Métis people so that they would run the programs that work for them and they would be culturally appropriate.

We said we would create a national public health monitoring program for the prevention of suicide and the identification of groups at elevated risk. That is really important, because when we know where the elevated risks are, we know where to put resources. We talked about the creation of programs to identify and fill gaps in knowledge related to suicide and its prevention, including timely and accurate statistical data. Once again, if we do not know what the data looks like, we have no way to help. It is not the role of the government to go in and do emergency crisis prevention in every single case. That is not what we do, and we would be terrible at it, but it is that information, the analysis and being able to show where the shortfalls are that would allow funding to flow.

There would be the creation of a national online hub, providing essential information in assessing the programs in the various languages: English, French, indigenous and the other languages spoken in Canada. We would conduct, within 18 months, a comprehensive analysis of high-risk groups of people, the risk factors specific to each group, and the degree to which sexual abuse and other forms of childhood abuse and neglect have an impact on suicidal behaviour.

We would assess the barriers for Canadians in accessing appropriate and adequate health, wellness and recovery services, including substance use, addiction and bereavement services, and the funding arrangements required to provide treatment, education, professional training and other supports required to prevent suicide and assist those bereaved by a loved one's suicide. We would look at the use of culturally appropriate suicide prevention activities and best practices, and study the role social media plays with respect to suicide and suicide prevention.

If the government had done those things, then yes, it could come in and tell me it will pass this Senate bill allowing people who are mentally depressed to kill themselves. It could tell me that it has actually done the analysis and presented the information to Parliament, and then we would look at it and know where the gaps are. However, if the government has not done any of that work, it should not tell me that we are going to pass a bill that will let someone who has no support, no backup and no help say that life is tough and it is game over for them. This was the final thing we voted for in this Parliament. I know a lot of people were taking pictures and doing press releases about how great it was that they were standing up on suicide prevention.

There should be an annual report to Parliament on preparations for and implementation of the national action plan for suicide prevention, including data on progress over the previous year and a comprehensive statistical overview of suicide in Canada for the year. If we had done that in 2019, if we had four years of statistics, if we had facts and we knew where the mental health dollars needed to go, if we were not just putting it out willy-nilly but actually had statistics, then we could talk about maybe, in certain circumstances, after all these other areas have been exhausted and after all these other supports have failed, a person who may have no other choice. However, that person, in the midst of darkness today, has none of those other supports because nobody at the federal level bothered to put that in place. We have seen our provincial government fail in so many areas as well.

I was deeply concerned when I heard the Attorney General do a podcast on this legislation. He deliberately connected the change of MAID to the right to kill oneself. He said:

Remember that suicide generally is available to people. This is a group within the population [meaning the people who might need MAID] who, for physical and possibly mental reasons, can't make that choice to do it themselves. Ultimately, this provides a more humane way for them to make a decision they otherwise would have made if they were able in some other way.

That is the Attorney General of Canada saying they physically cannot do it, they might not be smart enough to do it and they might be too depressed, but they have a right to kill themselves. That is what he said on a podcast just recently.

When I am told we are going to delay this for a year, I will vote to delay it for a year, but I want to see a plan to address this. I want to see the statistics that prove how this is being used, whether it is being exploited and whether the vulnerable are being targeted or being led to use this because there are no other supports. Until that happens, the last thing we should do as a Parliament of Canada is open the door further for more people to die.

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7:25 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, for many years, in a substantial way, we have had legislation dealing with the issue. It stems from a Supreme Court decision. The member has made reference to that. There has been a great deal of dialogue over the last half a dozen years in regard to what we are actually debating today. We have a standing committee that has been overseeing it as of late. We have some deadlines. I think the legislation allows for more discussion by having the extension.

One of the things lost in the debate is the issue of situations where, because of the supports that are there when someone is looking for medical assistance in dying, they get some sort of treatment that ultimately takes them off the thought of having medical assistance in dying.

Could my colleague provide his thoughts on the medical professionals and others who are out there who are, in fact, providing a service that has been deemed by the Supreme Court as something that is necessary? How we define that is really what we are talking about.

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7:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, there are doctors who see their role and have a role of helping people who are suffering from terrible sickness, an irremediable medical condition, to end their life without pain, and we have voted for that and we supported that. However, I have seen no consensus from the medical community that people who are depressed should be able to have assisted dying and no medical consensus that children should be able to. That consensus does not exist.

The only place that consensus exists is in the unelected, unaccountable Senate, and I would not take its advice on anything, yet the government did. The reason we have this legislation is because a bunch of unelected, unaccountable senators, people who flipped pancakes for the Liberal Party and Conservative Party fundraisers over the years, decided that if one is depressed they should be able to die. Not on my watch. Forget it.

So, yes, we have had a lot of talk, but we have had no review that Parliament was promised. This government did not do that job. It would rather listen to the Senate than actually do the hard work of reviewing this legislation and getting down to what is happening. Is it working or is it not? Why, in God's name, are we talking about expanding it when we have not addressed what we were committed to under the previous provisions of this legislation?

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7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC

Mr. Speaker, I wonder what the member's thoughts are on what is going to happen in the next year. We have had two years to develop guidelines, regulations and safeguards around MAID for those suffering a mental illness, and yet we have not developed a consensus at all. What we did was hear conflicting evidence and conflicting opinions at committee. Is the member confident that in the next 12 months we will actually come to a consensus, or are we going to be here a year from now seeking another extension?

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7:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question. We are debating until midnight tonight, for folks back home, because the government is scrambling to put this paper band-aid on the wound, and that wound is the failure to do due diligence. These are profound issues, and I do not know how that evidence is going to come down. I do not know where the guardrail should be. I do not know what the good reasons for use are and where it has been exploited. We need that evidence.

If the government waits until the 11th hour next year to either move forward or delay it again, we continue to fail. We have an obligation here. The statistics and numbers are concerning. We have to get to the bottom of it.

Again, I am not making a moral judgment on people who have used MAID. I have had very close friends use it. I can see its provision, and I support that, but I cannot go along with being told “Trust us, this thing is going to work” when we have not seen any evidence that this continual expansion is in the interest of individuals or society.