Debates of March 21st, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think I have figured it out. It turns out the Liberals and the Conservatives both have something in common. They are both opposed to a public inquiry.

People deserve a public inquiry because foreign interference undermines trust in our democracy.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Burnaby South from the top, please.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it turns out that I have to repeat this again because it is so important.

It looks like the Liberals and the Conservatives both have something in common. They are both opposed to a public inquiry.

People deserve a public inquiry because foreign interference undermines trust in our democracy, undermines trust in our electoral system.

My question for the Prime Minister is the following: Why is he wasting time? Why does the Prime Minister not call a public inquiry immediately?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we all know full well that such sensitive issues involving national security cannot always be discussed in public.

That is why we have brought in Mr. Johnston as an independent rapporteur. He will be able to get to the bottom of the matter in an independent, non-partisan way, which may include a public inquiry if he decides that is necessary. In addition to that, there is a committee of parliamentarians with the right security clearance to look at all these issues and report to the House.

We will continue to take this as seriously as we need to—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. The hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. According to reports in The Globe and Mail around the time of the 2021 federal election, CSIS outlined a sophisticated strategy to disrupt our democracy and back the re-election of the Liberal Party and the Liberal government.

Has the Prime Minister ever been briefed on the activities of Beijing or its affiliates in support of the Liberal Party in any election, and, if so, when?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I hope all members will appreciate that this government takes allegations of foreign interference very seriously, which is why we appointed independent panels, made up of non-partisan professional public servants, that certified that the elections in 2019 and 2021 were free and fair. We have received recommendations from those panels, which we are now implementing.

Last week, we took the additional step of appointing David Johnston, a former governor general appointed by Stephen Harper, and a man with impeccable qualifications, to do the job. He will now provide recommendations, up to and including a public inquiry, to ensure that we protect all of our democratic institutions.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, these are serious questions that I think the public deserves real answers to, so I will ask another question I hope the government can answer.

CSIS documents obtained by The Globe and Mail suggest that Beijing's consulate in Vancouver took credit for the defeat of at least two Conservative candidates in the 2021 election.

Was the Prime Minister or any other member of the government ever briefed on Conservative candidates being targeted by Beijing, successfully or unsuccessfully, and, if so, when?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, our hon. colleague knows very well that our government, unlike the previous Conservative government, immediately took steps to strengthen Canadian democratic institutions against the ongoing threat of foreign interference, which CSIS identified.

My colleague likes to quote CSIS reports. In 2013, when the current Leader of the Opposition was responsible for democratic institutions, CSIS identified the growing threat of foreign interference, and the previous Conservative government did absolutely nothing. In fact, the Conservatives brag about it, because it did not affect the Conservative Party, so they did not decide to do anything about it.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we know that the Prime Minister was frequently briefed about Beijing's election interference. In the face of that, this is what a CSIS whistle-blower wrote in The Globe and Mail: “Months passed, and then years. The threat grew in urgency; serious action remained unforthcoming.” That is an indictment of the record of the Prime Minister.

Beijing interfered in two elections under the Prime Minister's watch and he turned a blind eye to it. Why?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. Since we have taken the reins of government, this government has been consistently proactive in taking foreign interference seriously by giving CSIS new threat-reduction measure powers and by ensuring we crack down on foreign funding, which could be used to meddle in our elections, through the introduction and passage of Bill C-76 and through the creation of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, which has all recognized parties doing important work together to protect our democratic institutions.

That is the record of this government. I am proud of it, and we will continue to ensure that we do everything possible to protect—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, no charges have been laid. No diplomats have been expelled. The Prime Minister kept Canadians in the dark, and it took a CSIS whistle-blower to make the public aware of Beijing's election interference. That is the record of the Prime Minister.

Either the Prime Minister was completely asleep at the switch or he allowed it to happen because it benefited the Liberal Party. Which is it?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague should be careful not to make outrageous allegations that he knows very well have no basis in truth.

Our government, from the beginning, took the issue of foreign interference very seriously. We put in place a number of steps, including a National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, created by law, with access to all relevant documents and officials, to make assessments about this and other national security issues. Far from what my colleague is saying, we have taken this issue seriously from the very beginning and continue to do so.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a whistle-blower put their career on the line. That person made a deliberate choice to reveal the truth about Beijing's interference in our election even if they wondered, and I quote, “Who will take care of my family if I go to prison?”

This is a national security official who is well aware of the consequences of their actions. All because the Prime Minister did nothing to prevent Beijing's interference in the last two elections.

If the national security situation is so critical that someone risks going to prison, why did the Prime Minister turn a blind eye for so long?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague knows very well that, on the contrary, the Prime Minister and our government took this important issue seriously from the beginning, by seeking to strengthen Canadian democratic institutions against interference from China and other countries. This is not a new phenomenon in Canada or elsewhere around the world.

The good news is that we have put in place measures to reinforce our democratic institutions and we will continue to do so, particularly through the work of the Right Hon. David Johnston. We will put in place all other necessary measures to go even further.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, CSIS said that the Prime Minister was briefed several times on Beijing's interference in our elections.

I will again quote the whistle-blower: “Months passed, and then years. The threat grew in urgency; serious action remained unforthcoming. I endeavoured, alone and with others, to raise concerns about this threat directly to those in a position to hold our top officials to account. Regrettably, those individuals were unable to do so”.

Why did the Prime Minister ignore these warnings?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague knows very well that we did not ignore these warnings. The former Conservative government ignored them when it was in power. We did the opposite. We put in place a suite of measures to strengthen our democratic institutions and to share intelligence vital to national security with parliamentarians.

We have a panel of independent experts chaired by the Clerk of the Privy Council that certified that the 2019 and 2021 elections were free and democratic. The good news is that we will continue to strengthen these measures.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the debate over Chinese interference in our democracy demonstrates the Prime Minister's systematic and long-standing lack of ethics.

He floated the threat of a confidence vote to keep his chief of staff, Katie Telford, from having to appear. In other words, he actually threatened to force an election, all to avoid telling the truth about information he has had for a very long time about Chinese interference.

What is it that the Prime Minister wants to keep Ms. Telford from admitting to, so much so that he would consider bringing down his own government?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, that is just not true.

It is our goal to make sure that all the witnesses needed to answer questions are available. Many ministers have already gone to committee. Several people will be appearing before the committee as well.

We will make sure that someone is there to answer all the questions asked.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, knowing that China interfered significantly in the last two elections, the Prime Minister has threatened to trigger another election with a confidence vote.

Before the details of China's interference tactics could even be investigated, before the electoral system could even be strengthened to counteract these illegal practices, the Prime Minister threatened to trigger another election, even if it means that Beijing can resort to the same strategy a third time in a row, scoring a hat trick.

When will we finally get an independent public commission of inquiry?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague does not get too hung up on the truth. Making up facts does not seem to bother him all that much.

The Prime Minister has been very clear. This will not be a confidence vote. He said so this morning, as reported by all the papers. It is clear.

If the Bloc Québécois is just trying to pick a fight, stir the pot and impede our work here, it could at least stick to the facts instead of making things up all the time.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are playing games by threatening an election. Meanwhile, in the real world, there are real people in the Chinese community who are facing real threats from the Chinese regime.

As for the notorious Chinese police stations, Safeguard Defenders confirmed yesterday that 83 Canadian citizens have already been detained and deported to China to face trial, and those are only the cases we know about.

Beijing is literally arresting Canadian citizens in Canada under the Prime Minister's nose. This is serious.

When will he finally launch a real independent public inquiry?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we will always make certain that our position on China clear, and it is clear. We will never tolerate any form of interference in Canada's democracy or domestic affairs.

I think it is important for all my colleagues to understand that we are always going to make a distinction between the Chinese government and the Chinese people themselves.

Unfortunately, Chinese Canadians in this country are too often the target of these actions. I call on all members of the House to support Chinese Canadians in every riding across the country.