Debates of March 23rd, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the allegations from two separate national security sources state that a member of the House privately advised Beijing officials to hold off freeing two Canadian hostages held captive for over 1,000 days.

After all of the new evidence that Canadians have learned on election interference, it would be difficult for them to believe that security sources told Global News about the Liberal member’s actions without anyone trying to inform the Prime Minister.

I will ask for the seventh time today: On what day did the Prime Minister first learn of these allegations against a member of his own caucus?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I assure my colleague that the government has set up the appropriate mechanisms to deal with the allegations with regard to foreign interference in our elections, through the creation of NSICOP, through the creation of NSIRA and now through the appointment of Mr. David Johnston, who was initially appointed by Steven Harper, a former Conservative prime minister. Mr. Johnston is an eminent Canadian who possesses the qualifications, the experience in the law and the wisdom to help us navigate around the important challenges of foreign interference.

No member in the chamber should have any doubt whatsoever as to the way in which we are protecting our institutions and ensured the return of the two Michaels to Canada.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the evidence is mounting. Every day, we are finding new pieces to the foreign interference puzzle. Just yesterday, new allegations were revealed, which led to the resignation of a long-standing member of the Liberal caucus. We will continue to ask questions until Canadians get a straightforward answer.

For the eighth consecutive time, on what date did the Prime Minister first learn of these serious and troubling allegations?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, since we took the reins of government, we have raised the bar of transparency through the creation of the National Security Intelligence Review Agency; through the creation of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, which sees parties work across the partisan aisle; and now with the most recent appointment of David Johnston as an independent expert who will look into these questions to reassure Canadians they can have confidence in our institutions, in our elections and in our defence of human rights, which manifested in a campaign to see the two Michaels returned to Canada.

That is something every member of the chamber and all Canadians can be confident in.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, new serious allegations about foreign interference in federal elections led to a high-profile resignation from the Liberal caucus, a caucus member whom the Prime Minister has staunchly defended.

We have already asked this eight times today. I will give the Liberals a ninth chance to answer. On what day did the Prime Minister first learn of these troubling allegations?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to answer the question from my colleague from Miramichi—Grand Lake in New Brunswick. As has been said on many occasions in the House, we think Canadians benefit from a non-partisan, fact-based conversation about these very serious issues.

We know the Conservative Party is seeking to turn this issue into a partisan circus. What we are trying to do is reassure Canadians that we have a robust system to protect our democratic institutions. Our government has taken these allegations seriously since we formed office, and the right honourable David Johnston is the right person to give us ideas on the next steps to—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, day after day, there are new questions about what the Prime Minister knows about Beijing's interference. Yesterday, it was reported, based on national security sources, that a Liberal MP advised Beijing's Toronto consul general that the two Michaels languished in a Communist Party jail because somehow their release would benefit the Conservatives. This is about as serious as it gets. The Prime Minister needs to come clean.

For the tenth time, when did the Prime Minister learn of these allegations?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to making sure the two Michaels, Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, would be coming home, it was this government's utmost priority. For two years, the Prime Minister and foreign affairs ministers were heavily involved. All members of cabinet were talking to counterparts from around the world. Implying that this was not the case is absolutely false. We hope that all members in the House are convinced we were working together to make sure to bring them back home.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, for the eleventh time, on what date did the Prime Minister first learn about the allegation that a Liberal MP suggested to Han Tao, the PRC's consul general in Toronto, that the PRC delay the release of Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to be transparent with Canadians when it comes to the ways in which we are fighting foreign interference, through the collaboration of all parties in NSICOP, through accountability of NSIRA and now through the appointment of David Johnston, an eminent Canadian previously appointed by Stephen Harper, a former Conservative prime minister. He is someone who will lay out the next practical steps, including and up to a public inquiry, so that all Canadians can be confident we are protecting our institutions.

No one should doubt, not for a single moment, that we did everything in our power to secure the return of the two Canadians. It was the right thing to do. The two Michaels are back home, and that is something that should be celebrated by all members in the chamber.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we know that CSIS warned Ontario Premier Doug Ford of potential interference in the last provincial election.

More importantly, we know that this interference targeted the area around Don Valley North, the riding represented by the federal MP named in the Global News allegations yesterday. We know this because Mr. Ford has said so publicly and transparently.

Did CSIS warn the Prime Minister that it was talking to Doug Ford about potential Chinese interference during the Ontario election?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as we have been saying for months, threats of foreign interference are not just at the federal level. Democratic institutions in the provinces have likely been targeted by the same kinds of threats that we are seeing right now in the context of federal elections.

That is why we have always kept up a constructive dialogue with the premiers. I myself have spoken with Mr. Ford about the importance of strengthening democratic institutions. We have given provincial governments access to senior intelligence officials who can provide the information they need.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we also know that Vancouver's outgoing mayor, Kennedy Stewart, discussed potential interference from China with CSIS before the last municipal election. We know that because he, too, said it publicly.

Did CSIS advise the Prime Minister that it had discussed China's potential interference in the Vancouver municipal election?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as we said many times and as I already said before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs several weeks ago, as ministers, we get regular briefings on threats of foreign interference. We also provided provincial authorities with briefings or access to the senior officials responsible for our intelligence agencies so that they could understand the nature of the threat, which is always changing, and take the necessary measures in their jurisdictions to do what we did, which is to strengthen our democratic institutions.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in summary, CSIS is openly talking about Chinese interference with cities and it is openly talking about Chinese interference with provinces, but we are to believe that CSIS is not talking about it with the federal government? Apparently the Prime Minister had to find out from the news that one or more of his MPs had diplomatic ties to Beijing. Either CSIS is keeping the Prime Minister abreast of everything that is happening at every level, except in his own backyard, or CSIS is talking to everyone but the federal government. What are we to believe? When will there be a public, independent inquiry?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is fully aware that CSIS senior officials talk to federal government authorities on a regular basis to advise us on ways to strengthen our democratic institutions. That is precisely what we have been doing ever since we formed government. The appointment of the Right Hon. David Johnston is a measure that will allow us to further strengthen our democratic institutions. We have always recognized the threat of foreign interference, and we have taken measures to counter that threat.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, Global News published very serious allegations about a sitting MP. These allegations came from two separate national security sources. They are saying, and I quote, that he advised a senior Chinese diplomat in February 2021 that Beijing should hold off on freeing Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig. I am asking the same question that was asked 11 consecutive times today.

On what date did the Prime Minister first learn of these allegations from security officials?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said a number of times in the House, bringing back the two Michaels was the utmost priority of this government. That was the priority of the Prime Minister, of several foreign affairs ministers and of all the members of the House. We worked with numerous counterparts around the world to ensure support for the two Michaels and to put pressure on China to achieve a positive outcome. Finally, September 24, 2021, was a great day for Canada: The two Michaels, two individuals arbitrarily detained by China, came back home to Canada.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what is so hard for the minister to understand. The question is simple. The allegations are serious. The government's failure to respond is revealing. For the 13th time, I will ask a very simple question that needs a very simple answer. When was the Prime Minister informed of the serious allegations revealed by Global News yesterday?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what my colleague opposite needs to understand is that bringing home both Michaels was a priority. It was a priority for this government. Any insinuations to the contrary are absolutely false. Thus, I am answering the question, or the premise of the question: Canada, the government and all Canadians worked extremely hard to bring home Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, two people who were arbitrarily detained.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I find it really hard to believe that national security officials would have chosen to deliberately inform the media about such a sensitive matter before informing the Prime Minister. Again according to the Global News article, the Liberal MP “was already the subject of a CSIS probe started in the summer of 2019, three sources said, because the service believed a ‘subtle but effective’ election-interference network directed by the Toronto Chinese Consulate had clandestinely supported Dong's 2019 candidacy”.

We have asked the Prime Minister this question 13 times. On what exact date was the Prime Minister made aware of these serious allegations?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows perfectly well that we believe Canadians will benefit from a non-partisan discussion based on the facts that are properly framed within institutions that we have established since we formed government, including a committee of parliamentarians with Conservative Party members.

We appointed the Right Hon. David Johnston last week to advise us on what additional measures we can take. We will of course follow Mr. Johnston's transparent and public recommendations.

Forestry Industry

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, just days after the Prime Minister met with President Biden in 2021, the U.S. announced it was doubling the duties on softwood lumber. Workers in communities that rely on Canada's forest industry are hoping for better this time.

The WTO agrees that we need a better deal. Is the softwood lumber deal on the agenda with the President? Will the billions in excess duties collected finally be returned to the forest industry?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Minister of International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, that is an important question. My hon. colleague and I had a good conversation about this the other day.

I have been very clear about the forestry sector: We will always stand up for it and will always stand up for its workers. With respect to this issue, we have always said that we are ready to be at the table to negotiate, but we want a good deal, not just any deal.