Debates of April 19th, 2023

Financial Statement of Minister of Finance

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member talked about Ukraine, but this budget has absolutely nothing in it for Ukraine. It has nothing in it for the Canadian Armed Forces, and it has nothing to ensure that Ukraine would be victorious over its Russian aggressors. I do not know how she could stand in this place to talk about all that the Liberals are doing for Ukraine. As someone of Ukrainian heritage, I found it was incredibly disappointing and insulting that there was not anything there, other than loans, at a time when the country is getting invaded.

I want to talk about the Washington Post article that just came out this afternoon. It came from documents through the Discord messaging app, which said that the Prime Minister had absolutely no intent of ever meeting our NATO targets. According to the article, the report that was released, and it comes from the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said, “'Widespread defense shortfalls hinder Canadian capabilities,' the document says, 'while straining partner relationships and alliance contributions.'”

Why is the member supporting a government that continues to undermine our bilateral relationship with the United States and our collective security?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about our support for Ukraine. It was not something I detailed in my speech, but I am happy to talk about it.

This government has put over $5 billion forward to support Ukrainians in their fight against Russia. We have been recognized by President Zelenskyy as being among the countries that are leading in support for Ukraine. We have been thanked on many occasions as a prime leader in the discussions at the G7 and G20 ensuring support from around the world for Ukraine. Also, our Leopards have arrived in Ukraine.

However, I would point out that the member opposite actually voted to lift sanctions on Russia for fertilizer. It is not the time to lift sanctions on Russia. It is the time to get tough on Russia, and it is an embarrassment that the Conservatives want to weaken our sanctions regime.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on the environmental portion of her government's budget. I think it is a bit of a shame that, in this era of fighting climate change, we are putting all industries on the same footing, even the heavy polluters. That has been proven.

I question the idea of offering more public funds to companies that make millions, if not billions, of dollars in profits per year, to help them develop new technologies that have not yet been proven effective. I am thinking about carbon capture and storage in particular.

All that money could have been directed elsewhere. They could have invested more in renewable energy, green energy. I spoke to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change about it, and he said that if we help one, we have no choice but to help them all. I am still having a hard time with that. We know that some companies are heavy polluters and that we should not encourage them to produce more. Instead, we should encourage them to produce less, so that they produce fewer greenhouse gases.

I would like to hear my colleague's opinion about giving equal footing to industries that are receiving public funds, even if they make billions of dollars in profits.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate my colleague's work to make gains in our fight against climate change. She talks about investing in green, clean energy. That is exactly what we are doing in this budget.

In fact, I was surprised to learn that the Bloc Québécois was going to vote against this budget, given that it is a budget that truly responds to Quebeckers' demands to accelerate the country's green transition.

I would like to point out to my colleague that, according to the latest figures, our emissions are down almost 10% from the 2005 level, which is our reference year. We must continue. We need to accelerate these gains. That is why we have invested heavily in the green transition in this budget.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak to budget 2023. I will be sharing my time with the great hon. member for Simcoe North.

Perhaps more than any other budget in recent memory, Canadians were looking to this federal government to send some strong signals on responsible governance, prudent spending, fiscal responsibility and a path through these high inflationary times. Unfortunately, however, the reality is that we did not see any of this in the budget. It should therefore come as no surprise that I, along with my Conservative colleagues, will not be supporting this budget as it stands.

Of course, we know that NDP members will support the Liberal government, because they always have and always will, ever since their coalition government began. However, the NDP's blank cheque approach to dealing with the Liberals' incompetence is only making matters worse. This makes them a part of the problem and leaves the Conservatives as the only national party to stand up for Canadians.

The single largest selling point in this budget that I see is the token $225 payment to lower-income Canadians to supposedly help with the rising cost of groceries. This shows that the Liberals are clearly out of touch with the realities that Canadians are facing as they do their weekly grocery shopping.

I was at the Calgary Co-op grocery centre in Brentwood last week. I shop there. I have been shopping there for probably 40 years, and I am getting to know the people. A shopping excursion for me takes an hour to an hour and a half. It is an hour to an hour and a half of talking to people in the aisles and shopping. The people I see at the shopping centre look drained, not only of their hard-earned money but of their mental resources as well. They are dealing with how they are going to put food on the table.

I went to the produce section, and it is shocking. The cost of lettuce is up 35% in just this past year. Fresh vegetables, for the vegans out there, are up 15%. Flour, for people who want to bake bread because they cannot afford to buy their bread, is up 23%. Cooking oil, for people who can afford to buy chicken or hamburger, is up 23%. Butter, to butter the bread we cannot afford, is up 19%. Pasta, for Italian lovers out there who enjoy Italian food, had a 19% increase. Canned veggies, again for the vegans, had a 17% increase. Bread, if one can afford it, was up 18%, and even potatoes were up 16% this past year.

This $225 payment literally equates to, if one does the math, about $4.32 per week. It is a pittance of support for struggling Canadians.

However, do not worry, because as the Liberals and the NDP say, everything is just fine and inflation is coming down. Sure, it may be coming down for non-essential items like televisions or high-tech gadgets. However, it certainly is not coming down for the bare essentials, the necessities that Canadians need to feed and house their families.

In no way can the government claim that food security is not an issue in Canada when 60% more Canadians are expected to need food banks this year. The problem is even more acute in certain communities around this country and certainly up in the north. This lack of food affordability will have long-term effects and will add to the stress of many households in this country. This stress will drive up the rates of domestic violence, it will impact the educational outcomes of many of our children and it will have a lasting impact on our most vulnerable, in particular our fixed-income seniors and veterans.

However, it is not only food affordability. There are many other things going wrong here in Canada, and the Liberals and the NDP seem to be blind to it all.

For example, in the last eight years, we have seen a country where there are marijuana pot shops at every turn, at every corner, yet parents are desperately driving around town searching for children's formula and children's medication.

Overdose deaths are at a shocking level and are rising, yet the Liberals' response is to make it easier to get access to deadly drugs.

Canadians need mental health support more than ever, but the Liberal government refuses to activate the 988 emergency line that my colleague, the member for Cariboo—Prince George, has been advocating for for years to no avail.

The government is hiring thousands more public servants. In the past two years alone, the public service has grown by 31,000 full-time employees, yet somehow wait times are worse than when we had fewer employees. The government is spending more and we are getting less. That is the story of the Liberal-NDP government.

Canada needs immigration more than ever to fill our labour shortages, but the immigration backlog gets longer by the day. In July 2021, the backlog was an astounding 1.5 million applications. The government promised to prioritize the problem and hire more people, but the result is that the backlog has increased even further. It now stands at 2.15 million applications. It is another example of paying more and getting less.

Housing prices have doubled. We all know that. However, the government thinks the problem is solved with a $500 housing payment.

Violent crime is up, illegal gun crime is up, drug crime is up and the number of police officers killed on duty is going up at an alarming rate. However, all the government has in response is that it gives its thoughts and prayers to families.

If I truly felt the government's 2023 budget really hit the mark, I would say so. I have in the past praised parts of Liberal budgets, but this budget is such a letdown for Canadians. There is no plan for housing affordability. There is no plan for reducing crime. There is no plan for controlling inflation. There is no plan for true food security. There is no plan for today and no plan for tomorrow.

Canadians need a government that remains focused on the most important things. Instead, we have a Liberal-NDP government that is more concerned with photo ops and penny payment schemes, instead of dealing with root causes. Canadians need a government that supports all businesses and encourages economic growth in every sector in this country, in particular our oil and gas sector, which the government has decimated.

Our national debt has also doubled under the Prime Minister. It is a massive debt burden that will haunt current and future generations of Canadians for decades to come. It will impact our ability to support our most precious social programs and will put our critical services at risk.

It has been a few weeks since the Liberal-NDP government delivered its budget. I hope it will take the feedback of Canadians seriously. The budget could not have been more widely denounced if it had tried. It needs to know the budget is not what Canadians wanted or needed.

What Canadians want is a fiscally responsible government that respects their hard-earned tax dollars. Canadians want a government focused on responsible, prudent spending that is within our spending capacity. Canadians want a government that tackles inflation, instead of recklessly spending to fuel that inflation. Canadians want a government that focuses on delivering the most basic services it currently has, instead of creating new, wasteful and ineffective programs. Canadians want a government that does not saddle future generations with crippling debt.

Canadians will get this kind of government in the next election when they elect a new Conservative government.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I had to give my head a shake because the member, a Conservative, talked about how it has been so difficult for poor Canadians and middle-class Canadians.

I have to go back and mention the 10 dismal years of the Harper decade, when in this House we saw the Conservatives slashing health care, forcing seniors to work longer, depriving them of their pensions and systematically making it tough for working people to survive. We saw this routinely when workers were exercising their collective right to negotiate and would occasionally go on strike. The Conservative government, during the dismal Harper decade, forced those workers back to work.

I see all that. I see the fact that Canadians are struggling. What the NDP has offered is dental care, while pushing for pharmacare and pushing for real supports for Canadians.

Was the member asleep during the 10 dismal years when Harper ripped apart the social fabric of this country? He took away health care and all of the other programs that Canadians depended on. Was he asleep during that entire decade?

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Before I go to the answer, I just want to remind members that I really want to get them in on questions and comments. I need shorter questions and shorter answers so that everybody can participate in this debate.

The hon. member for Calgary Confederation.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Mr. Speaker, right now, it is our oil industry that pays for the hon. member's dental plan. It is our oil industry that has supported this country for decades.

I have a Statistics Canada report here that says oil and gas companies have almost half a trillion dollars in assets in Canada. That is $452 billion in investments here in Canada, yet the government is decimating that industry. Who does the member think is going to pay for all of this? It is going to be the revenue coming into our coffers from the oil and gas industry. We need to support Alberta's oil and gas industry.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism and Associate Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciated the speech by my colleague, particularly the opening when he indicated that he was very open to agreeing with and saluting certain specific measures.

He mentioned in his speech that he is very dedicated to curbing crime and violence in this country. Does he agree with our proposal to use existing funds, not new money, to take further action to tackle drug trafficking and stem the flow of drugs coming into our country, particularly from across borders?

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely we need to curb the problem of illegal drugs coming into this country. We need to do whatever we can and spend whatever we can, but who will pay for it? It is the taxpayers who pay for this. They also pay for the dental plan and everything the government is offering in its budget.

How do we pay for all this? It is with a strong oil and gas industry in Alberta, an industry that provides us billions of dollars. In 2021 alone, this single industry generated $105 billion for our GDP while supporting almost 400,000 jobs, and the government is decimating it. If we continue to increase our debt in this country, we are in a lot of trouble.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how I will top the remarks and wonderful intervention by the member for Calgary Confederation.

We are in trouble as a country. It is very serious. We are a country in decline, but listening to the government, it is as if Canadians have never had it so good. The Liberals say things like that we have the lowest net debt-to-GDP ratio in the developed world, or that we have the best growth in the G7. What they do not say is that our living standards are in serious decline. Our living standards have been in decline since the 1980s. In fact, in a research report released just yesterday, the Institute for Research and Public Policy highlights an urgent need. The report says, “In 1981, Canadians enjoyed a $3,000 higher per capita standard of living than the major Western economies (adjusted for inflation and currency fluctuations). Forty years later, Canada was $5,000 below that same average. If the trajectory continues, the gap will be nearly $18,000 by 2060.”

We care about per capita because that is how we measure standard of living. We often hear people talk about the economic pie, which can grow, but if people's slices still stay the same, they are not better off. The government is achieving economic growth solely on the basis of volume alone. What do I mean by that? We are growing the pie, but the size of everybody's piece of the pie is staying the same. Our population is growing. We are only growing demand. That is the only thing that is happening and will continue to happen.

Last year in the budget, the government was transparent about this issue. It highlighted a chart that showed Canada toward the bottom of the OECD in peer countries from GDP per capita growth. All of a sudden, this year, that chart disappeared. I wonder why. It is because the story is so awful.

I have to read a quote from 2015 for my colleagues:

The OECD has cut its 2015 GDP forecast for Canada to a dismal 1.5%. By way of excuse, the minister today claimed, “We are doing better than most developed countries.” That is simply not true. The OECD puts us behind Australia, Germany, Ireland, Israel, the Netherlands, South Korea, Sweden, the U.K., the U.S. and yes, even Spain.

This is no global problem, as the government likes to pretend to excuse its shoddy management. This is a made-in-Canada runway to recession.

The Deputy Prime Minister said that. Maybe the Deputy Prime Minister should go back to her 2015 self and take some lessons.

This is the context in which we have to think about this budget. It was not even one year ago when members on this side stood up and asked the government what it would do if inflation does not come down and we see economic uncertainty. What was the answer from the government? It was that these hon. members are “economically illiterate”. Guess what? Unfortunately, the worst is happening. Inflation is still high and unemployment is going to go up. We are walking into a recession because the government's spending is out of control.

The government's own projections state that unemployment is going to go up by 1.3%. That is 275,000 to 300,000 Canadians who, the government is projecting, will lose their jobs before the end of the year. I do not think they really care at all what inflation is in the U.K. or in the U.S., or that we somehow have a little bit better growth than some of our peer countries. We can argue about whether the causes of inflation are domestic or international. They are both, but more recently, really smart people are saying that we have too much demand in Canada. Our own central bank governor says that inflation is caused by too much domestic demand. Stephen Poloz recently said that the size of the deficit last year caused interest rates to go higher.

What does this mean for Canadian families? Derek Holt at Scotiabank suggests that one full percentage point of central bank increases is related to government overspending. What does that mean for the average Canadian? If the average mortgage is $360,000, they are paying $3,600 extra per year in interest because the government has been overspending and increasing demand, meaning interest rates have to go up to cool inflation. If someone happens to be a new homeowner or is trying to get an $800,000 mortgage, that is $8,000 extra a year they have to pay.

The bank is working very hard to bring inflation down, and we should be supporting it. Instead, the government is making its job harder. It is putting on additional taxes that have been determined to be inflationary.

We have had food inflation in double digits for more than a year, and the government has never bothered to even ask how the carbon tax affects food prices in Canada. Food has to be produced, and farmers are paying the carbon tax. One farmer in a nearby community showed me a bill with $13,000 in carbon tax alone in one month for natural gas. Also, the government thinks farmers have so much money that it put HST on top of the $13,000. It is absolutely incredible.

The Liberals are not willing to admit this massive problem. They can only stand up and point to few things, saying that we are so much better off than the rest of the world. The only thing they have done to help people over the last year has been the GST rebate to help low-income Canadians. There is one in the budget and one in the fall, and the Conservatives supported and support both of them. We would like to see that go forward.

All of this spending has consequences. We are spending almost as much, this year coming up, on interest on the debt as we are giving to the provinces to spend on health care. How incredible is that? Just a couple of years ago, when the Deputy Prime Minister was asked about interest rates increasing and how much that would cost, the response was, “These are investments in our future, and they will yield great dividends. In today's low interest rate environment, not only can we afford these investments, it would be short-sighted of us not to make them.”

The Liberals ignored inflation when it came and said it was transitory. Now they are ignoring economic uncertainty and a recession. They are calling it a shallow recession that is going to be short. Maybe they are also saying it is going to be transitory.

They were asked about economic uncertainty, and they called us economically illiterate. They said the debt-to-GDP ratio was going to keep declining, but they have broken that promise too. Now Canadians are paying the price for their prediction. The plan is not working, inflation is high, economic growth is slowing and the impacts on Canadians are real. I will give just a couple of examples of what is happening.

People are not getting great service in many circumstances. I heard from a young woman who is a PSW at a retirement home in Midland caring for our vulnerable. She is trying to get her PR card. She is also a nurse, but she cannot change jobs while she is waiting for her PR card. She has been waiting two years, which is an incredible injustice. We are preventing a young nurse from getting into the system.

Then there is Gary, a pilot who is retired. He builds planes. All he needs is his medical approved by the the transportation department so he could fly his plane and enjoy his retirement years. That is not happening either.

If members thought it was all doom and gloom, I want to end on a positive note. Last week I was in Ms. Thompson's grade 11 law class. Mr. McEcheran is a student of Lakehead who is observing that class and helping out. These students asked the most amazing questions. It gives me a lot of great hope for the future of the country. They asked about crime, homelessness and land conservation. I was very energized by this conversation. I think the country is in great hands when we have student leaders like them engaged in civics discussions.

I could not answer many of those questions and could not point to things in the budget to address their concerns. I hope next year we will have a better shot.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, while I listened to the member's speech, I was thinking a lot about many of the benefits we put forward to help young people in this country, specifically children and youth, when it comes to the dental program, interest relief on student debt, the child benefit and child care in general. These are huge programs that help young people.

If the member was in charge, what would he do differently, specifically when we are talking about children and youth?

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is a great question.

First, on child care, as far as I understand there is not one child care provider in my riding who is offering $10-a-day day care.

Second, let us talk about what we would do differently. Do members know what the biggest waste of $500 million a year is? It is interest-free loans for students. Why? It is because it costs $500 million a year and we could give that money to low-income students so they can obtain an education. In fact, the government took grants for low-income students from $6,000 to $3,200 and claimed it was an increase. That is definitely not something we would have done. We could have given that $500 million to low-income students to obtain an education.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I am always fascinated to see how populist and simplistic the Conservative rhetoric is. He makes it sound as though cancelling the carbon tax would completely resolve the problem of inflation.

I think that the Conservatives are simplifying things too much and that they are proposing solutions that are far too simplistic. At the same time, the more the government spends with the help of the NDP, the more it fuels inflation. I sometimes feel as though the Liberals are just hoping that this is all going to sort itself out and that they will not have to do anything. That is the case in the budget. What balance is there?

I am thinking, in particular, of much more practical measures that could be put in place to deal with the labour shortage, for example. That would help the economy. We made specific proposals in that regard.

I am always fascinated by the Conservatives' rhetoric on lavish spending and by their economic plan, which is far too simplistic. That was more of a comment than a question. I do not think that we are going to solve anything by suggesting that the government cancel the carbon tax.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc has put forward some interesting solutions. We work very well together at committee with the member of that party.

I do not find anything simplistic or disingenuous about reducing the carbon tax on an energy bill. I have people emailing my office and sending energy bills that have $50 or $60 of carbon tax per month. They are on a fixed income. It is not unreasonable to recommend, at least temporarily, to remove that charge from people's energy bills.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I know the Conservatives often put down the New Democratic Party for offering much-needed programs to Canadians, like dental care. However, I would have to agree with my colleague from the Bloc that their analysis is quite simplistic. We know where the answer lies, and it is something the Conservatives are never willing to do: go after the ultrawealthy and tax the corporate elite. The Conservatives always talk about placing the onus on the taxpayer, but when it comes to the real problem in the room, which is the greedy corporate elite, I wonder if my colleague is willing to join the NDP in our call to tax the ultrarich and go after the corporate elite to pay for the programs Canadians need.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we should make sure all Canadians, corporate or individual, pay the taxes they owe, no question. We should make sure that people pay the taxes they owe before we think about increasing taxes on everyone else.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, what a way this is to conclude the debate on such an important measure the government has brought forward. I thought maybe I would reflect on what members should be aware of before we actually vote.

This budget is in fact a reflection of what has been done in consultations, working with Canadians from—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Calgary Rocky Ridge has a point of order.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Madam Speaker, I thought we should get a ruling from you. I think this is at least the third time the member has spoken to the budget. Perhaps another member would like a turn. Members can only speak at each stage—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I can confirm this member is speaking for the first time on the main motion.

The hon. parliamentary secretary has the floor.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, the good news for the member is he was able to cut my speech a bit shorter.

The Conservatives do not like it when I stand up to speak because they get a sense of reality, which is that the more Canadians find out what the Conservative Party members are truly up to, the more they are in deep trouble in the next election.

Within this budget is a true reflection of what Canadians expect of the government: to demonstrate it has been listening and there is leadership from Ottawa. This budget delivers.

For important issues such as inflation, we have things such as the grocery rebate. We have the expansion of the dental plan program. We have things such as the doubling of the tax credit for tradespeople so they can acquire their tools. There are so many aspects of this budget that are there to support Canadians. It truly is a reflection of what Canadians want to see in a national budget.

This is an opportunity to emphasize that as a government working with Canadians we have seen the creation of thousands of jobs. In fact, close to two million jobs have been created through this government since we have been in government. This is well past the prepandemic number.

When it comes to dealing with issues such as inflation, we are on the right track and are seeing our inflation numbers going down. Hopefully we will be able to see that downward movement on inflation rates continue. If we compare Canada to any other country, and in particular our peer countries, whether in Europe or just south of us, we will find Canada is doing exceptionally well. We continue to work day in, day out in order to deliver the type of programs expect of us.

No matter how focused the Conservative Party of Canada is on personal attacks or personal assassinations of members on the government benches, we will continue to remain focused on Canadians first and foremost, no matter what region of the country one lives in. This is a government that truly cares. The budgetary and legislative measures we brought forward will continue to have the backs of Canadians as we recognize the value of our middle class and those aspiring to be a part of it. We are going to develop an economy that works for all Canadians, no matter where they live.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

It being 5:40 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the ways and means Motion No. 10.

The question is on the motion.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division or wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

We request a recorded division.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Call in the members.