Debates of May 2nd, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the directive of September 10, 2019, is clear. It says:

The Service has a duty to inform the Minister of any such matter as is relevant to enable the Minister to fulfill the Minister’s accountabilities as outlined in the CSIS Act.

In general terms, the Minister expects to be consulted or informed regarding any action on which a Deputy Head would normally involve his or her Minister.

My question, again, is very simple. When did the public safety minister or his office first become aware that a PRC diplomat was targeting a member of the House and their family?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague across the aisle for highlighting the directive that this government has put in place to ensure transparency and accountability around decisions, which are taken independently by our non-partisan professional public servants when it comes to which classified information is made public and which must remain classified to protect the people who work in that space.

This is not a partisan issue. We must all work together to defend the institutions, the communities and, most important, the parliamentarians who serve those institutions to protect our democracy.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what a gutless response. What if that happened to that minister's family? I have the same question. When did he know?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I have just said, it is our non-partisan independent public servants who make decisions around operations, including which classified information is made public, and for good reason. It is important that we protect the people who work in those institutions, not only to protect our national security but to protect the people who work within these institutions, including parliamentarians.

Let me just say that it is outrageous to make the claim that any member of Parliament would stand for any attack on any parliamentarian. We are united in fighting against foreign interference.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when did he know?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague can continue to ask the same question and she will get the same answer.

It is this government that has raised the bar on transparency, when it comes to protecting our institutions, by creating a committee of parliamentarians, by creating NSIRA. By the way, I would point out the Conservatives had nearly 10 years to create those institutions and they never did.

Rather than suggesting that we stand up, I suggest they now stand up and get behind the cause of the government so we can protect all parliamentarians and our institutions.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on September 10, 2019, CSIS received a ministerial directive to inform the minister of public safety of any disturbing fact concerning foreign interference.

I will ask the Minister of Public Safety a simple question: When did he learn that a Beijing diplomat was threatening a member of the House?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to my colleague, that is the same question and I will give the same answer.

The government increased the level of transparency by creating a committee of parliamentarians to examine national security issues and by creating the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency, or NSIRA. We will continue to work with all members to protect our institutions, and, more importantly, with all the people and all MPs who work in this institution to protect democracy. That is the most important thing.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when did the minister find out?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the question is always the same, so the answer is always the same.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, things are moving quickly today. The Liberals keep lecturing about democratic values when anyone asks them about the foreign interference they are involved in.

Let us talk about democratic values.

The Prime Minister was warned by CSIS that China was threatening an MP and his family. Any democrat worth their salt would have alerted that MP, whether they be a Conservative, Liberal, Bloc or NDP member. However, the Prime Minister again chose secrecy. By prioritizing partisan secrecy over a family's safety, he has crossed the line into the unacceptable.

When will there be an independent public inquiry?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to my colleague, it is absolutely outrageous that the Bloc Québécois would suggest that this government stood idly by on an issue such as this one, which affected a member of Parliament and his family.

This is why the government has created tools to give our communities certain national security responsibilities in order to defend everyone working in our institutions. We will remain vigilant on this issue.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the meantime, CSIS is warning that Beijing sees Canada as a high-priority target for interference.

Obviously, it is easy for China. China could get close to the Prime Minister through the Trudeau Foundation. China could get close to the Liberals at their own $1,500-a-head cocktail parties during their first term. Then, when China gets caught by CSIS doing things like threatening the family of an elected member, the Liberals keep it a secret.

Do the Liberals realize that it is their fault that China is infiltrating our institutions with disturbing ease?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I already explained, this government is truly proactive when it comes to dealing with the challenge of foreign interference.

That is why we gave more powers to CSIS. That is why we introduced Bill C‑76 to crack down on foreign contributions that could pose a threat to our institutions.

We will continue to do this important work to protect communities, institutions and, more importantly, all Canadians.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, why are we still talking about this today? It is because the Liberals have chosen their culture of secrecy over full transparency.

It is their culture of secrecy that increases foreign interference: secrecy about China's connections through the Trudeau Foundation; secrecy about China interfering in democracy; secrecy about Chinese threats towards the family of an elected official.

From day one, the Prime Minister could have been transparent with an independent and public commission of inquiry. Will he go down with his secrets, taking the Liberal Party with him?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague knows very well that our government took foreign interference and threats seriously from the outset. We implemented several measures in the first few months of our mandate, and we strengthened them in the months and years that followed.

The good news is that the Right Hon. David Johnston is on the job and will make independent recommendations because he is an expert who knows the facts. The government will take action to further enhance the measures immediately.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for the gutless minister, when did he find out—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind the hon. members that unparliamentary language is not welcome in the chamber. Calling people names is not permitted. It is not the first time. It is not the second time. I want to remind the hon. member that the next time I will have to take his question away from him.

The hon. member for Calgary Forest Lawn.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when did the minister find out that a member of the House was threatened by a foreign diplomat from Beijing?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, if the Conservatives continue to pose the same question, they will get the same answer.

At the very core of the premise of those questions is the suggestion that somehow this government does not care about the hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills. Nothing could be further from the truth. We may have disagreements in this chamber about domestic and foreign policy, but we will always stand united behind the right of all members to do their job to represent their constituencies, because that is a fundamental value of standing up for democracy.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for the eighth time, when did the minister find out?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, since we continue to get the same question in a broken-record format, let me highlight exactly what we are doing to combat foreign interference.

We introduced Bill C-59 to give CSIS additional threat reduction measure powers. We introduced Bill C-76 to crack down on foreign funding. We introduced the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians so we could work across partisan lines. We finally introduced NSIRA to ensure transparency on how we do this work to Canadians.

What is the distinction? We did those things; the Conservatives opposed.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the responses are not answering the questions we are asking. Once again, we are asking a very simple question.

When did cabinet and the minister find out that a member of the House of Commons was being harassed by Beijing?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I have explained several times now, decisions about what information should or should not be shared with the public are made by our public servants, who work in an independent and non-partisan manner. Yes, I will be working with the member for Wellington—Halton Hills to brief him and share information, because this government is there to protect not only that member, but everyone who works in the House.