Debates of May 29th, 2023

Department of Finance—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, I will split my time three ways.

The finance minister said that, by exercising fiscal restraint, she would not pour fuel on the fire of inflation. She did a massive flip-flop from November and added an extra $60 billion of spending in her failed budget. Can she tell Canadian families how much that is going to cost each and every household in Canada?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Chair, the finance critic is an Alberta MP, so I want to ask him something very serious. There is an election going on in Alberta today, and in the campaign, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress asked about pro-Russia, pro-Putin positions taken by some UCP candidates. I would like to know what the Conservative Party thinks, and I will tell members my connection to my appearance tonight at the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, can the minister please tell every Canadian household how much her extra $60 billion of spending is going to cost?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is a really important point because, as I was walking up here, I was shouted at, which was nothing unusual. It was some Trumpian language, saying that the PM and I should go to jail. However, one of the things that was shouted at me was “You're spending my money”—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, since the minister flip-flopped on that, she also flip-flopped when the Liberals said, in 2015, they would run modest, short-term deficits of less than $10 billion in each of the next two years and return to balance in 2019. What happened?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is a really important point. I was shouted at, and this person said, “You are spending my money on Ukraine.” Is it the position of the Conservative Party of Canada that our spending on Ukraine is wrong?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, the minister does not admit her own words, and she will not recognize that she broke her own promises to Canadians when she poured fuel on the inflationary fire.

The minister loves to quote the Governor of the Bank of Canada, so will she agree with him that inflation in Canada increasingly reflects what is happening in Canada?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I note that the Alberta MP and finance critic has refused to answer my question about Ukraine. This is an important point.

When it comes to fiscal responsibility, our AAA rating was reaffirmed by S&P after the budget was tabled.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, the minister is here to answer questions of Canadians. Does she agree with Tiff Macklem that the inflation in Canada increasingly reflects what is happening in Canada?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is very important for all Canadians to know whether Trumpian positions on Ukraine and Russia are infiltrating the Conservative movement more broadly in Canada.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, if the minister does not agree with the current governor, maybe she will listen to the former governor, and maybe her future boss or maybe her future seatmate, when they are on this side of the House. When he said, “Really, inflation is principally a domestic story”, did she believe him?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, let me point out that inflation has come down in Canada, from a high of 8.1% to 4.4%. When it comes to the budget, let me quote the former parliamentary budget officer, Kevin Page. He said we have a “credible fiscal policy” and that our “fiscal anchor of the”—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, if the minister is not going to listen to the future Liberal leader, maybe she will listen to the random Liberal Bill Morneau, who said that the government overspent, or to a former Liberal premier who said that, on the inflation side, if governments continue to spend beyond their means, they are going to continue to have inflation that continues to increase. Are they right or wrong?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is incontrovertible that Canada has a strong and responsible fiscal policy. That has been reiterated by S&P. We have the lowest deficit and the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 and an AAA credit rating. Those are objective markers and not, frankly, partisan talking points from the Conservative—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, we agree that the people we listed are random Liberals, and they are partisan, like Tiff Macklem, the minister herself, Mark Carney and Bill Morneau. We fully agree with that. Does the minister think they are all wrong? Yes or no.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would normally be surprised to hear the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Tiff Macklem, described as partisan, but given that the member's party has done the astonishing thing of undermining the credibility of the Bank of Canada, I am beyond being surprised by it.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, can the minister please tell Albertan families how much it is going to cost when carbon tax 1 and carbon tax 2 are fully implemented on each Alberta household?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we have been talking about fiscal responsibility. Let me quote the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who said, at the finance committee, “When looking at G7 countries, Canada compares very favourably on net debt-to-GDP.”

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to start out with some serious discussion. I believe we had a serious discussion at the finance committee. We are in perilous economic times. We are facing high inflation, high interest rates, increasing unemployment, record-high housing prices, low growth and record food bank usage. I would just like to start to get some basic answers, some straightforward answers to some straightforward questions.

What will be the deficit in 2023?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Chair, is that in 2022 or 2023?

We published a “Fiscal Monitor” last week, and it showed that our deficit for 2022-23 is likely to be lower than forecast. We forecast around $43 billion. We are now seeing it coming in at $40 billion or lower.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Chair, what will be the national debt at the end of 2023?