Debates of May 29th, 2023

Department of Finance—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, our government understands the importance of the EI system. That is why we invested in EI during the pandemic.

We continue to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Mirabel.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, before the Axworthy reform of the 1990s, 64% of Canadians were covered by EI; today, 40% are covered.

Does the minister believe that going from 60% to 40% is the right way to help the unemployed who have bad luck in the labour market?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, the right thing to do is to have an economic plan that creates jobs. What I want is to not have any unemployed workers in Canada. The good news is that we created almost 900,000 jobs.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, the government continues to heavily subsidize fossil fuels with taxpayer money.

For years, we have been waiting for a definition of an effective subsidy for fossil fuels. On two occasions in her reports, the Auditor General told us that she was not even able to evaluate whether subsidies were effective because the government had not even provided a definition.

Can the minister today provide a definition of an effective subsidy for fossil fuels?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to finish my answer about the job market in Canada, because it is very important to understand that our focus during the pandemic was jobs, jobs and more jobs. We understood that, for Quebeckers and Canadians, having a job was the most important thing.

I am very pleased—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. Bloc Québécois member's time has expired. We will now go the NDP member.

The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, there has been a lot of debate in this place about the extent to which public spending contributes to inflation. I am wondering if the minister believes that all public spending contributes to inflation, or just certain kinds.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Chair, one of the things we have paid a lot of attention to in the budget, and in all of our budgets, is making investments that increase Canada's economic capacity, and we believe that investments that do that can actually be anti-inflationary.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, for instance, does the minister believe that the GST rebate, which is targeted at low-income Canadians, was an inflationary spending item?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to start by talking about early learning and child care, if I may, because for me that is the poster child of an investment that actually adds to Canada's economic capacity—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, I will take the minister to be saying that she does not believe that investing in child care is inflationary. Does she believe that doubling the GST rebate two times was an inflationary spend by government?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we need to be very careful in our budgets about a couple of things. We had an eye on a few things.

One was being sure we found a balance between fiscal responsibility, between our deficit and debt—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I am doing the time thing. I just want to make sure I am okay with this.

The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, does the finance minister believe that the GST rebate was an inflationary spend or not?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I believe that the GST rebate and the grocery rebate were spending that was necessary to give help to the people who needed it the most.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, does the minister believe that pharmacare, which is a program that would lower the amount Canadians spend on prescription drugs against the current amount they spend, would be inflationary?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, whether spending is inflationary depends obviously on the macroeconomic conditions of the moment and on how the programs are designed and delivered.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, how can lowering prices be inflationary?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, as I know the member for Elmwood—Transcona knows, everything depends on how programs are designed, and everything depends also on the macroeconomic conditions of the moment. If I talk to someone from Japan, they are keen to have inflationary spending, because they have been in a deflationary spiral for a long time.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, does over $30 billion in infrastructure spending risk being inflationary?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, the macroeconomic impact of any policy measure depends very much on the macroeconomic circumstance of the time. For us, compassion is important. Fiscal responsibility—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, infrastructure investments are important, but they can also be inflationary. Does the minister recognize that infrastructure spending can be inflationary?