Debates of May 29th, 2023

Department of Finance—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, the answer is the GDP of Nova Scotia will contract by 0.7%. Fascinating.

The other thing I would like to discuss is that Nova Scotia is prevented from lowering the fuel tax due to the requirement in the carbon tax benchmark that provinces not offset the price signal. Would it be fair to say that Nova Scotia has been strong-armed into maintaining its provincial fuel tax?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, what would be devastating for the people of Nova Scotia is a government without a climate plan. That would be devastating because it would destroy our planet, but also because it would mean—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, what would be devastating is Nova Scotians not being able to feed themselves, heat their homes or have a roof over their head. That is devastating, and that is what the Liberal government is actually doing.

Once again, finally, why did the Liberal government cancel the clean energy tidal power project in Nova Scotia?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, our government has a climate plan and investments are coming to Canada. The Conservatives disavowed their weak plan that they campaigned on in 2021, and Canadians know that.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, we know very clearly that middle-income Canadians in Nova Scotia cannot afford carbon tax 1, carbon tax 2 and the HST.

When will the finance minister cancel the carbon tax?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, we have a plan to fight climate change. We have a plan to attract investment and to build the clean economy of the future.

The Conservatives have nothing except repeating childish phrases over and over.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, the finance minister has not done a great job answering questions.

I am going to ask her if she has an idea of, by 2030, how much will the carbon tax cost the average farm family in Canada? I will give her a hint. The average farm is about 5,000 acres.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, my dad, before he retired last year, farmed 6,000 acres, so I am well aware of the size of the average Canadian farm.

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, I am glad she knows that. Perhaps she knows how much that is going to cost the average farmer. The answer to that question is that by 2030, the average farmer will have to pay $150,000 in carbon tax.

How much of that carbon tax will the average farmer, like her father, get back from the government?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I was in Grand Prairie last summer, and I talked to some farmers. Some of them were actually married to people I went to elementary school with. They said to me that their kids now see the importance of climate action, and they see they are getting the money back, so—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, once again, the finance minister is not even attempting to answer a question. The answer is that the farmer who pays $150,000 in carbon taxes is going to get none of that money back, and the cost is all going to be passed along to Canadians trying to buy food.

I am going to try another question. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business has said that the carbon tax will cost small businesses x amount of dollars in 2023. Does the finance minister know how much it is going to cost small business?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I want to talk about a farmer named Henry Vos. He used to farm around Fairview. He is retired now. He lives on Shaftesbury Trail. During the wildfires in Alberta, he emailed me to say to please thank the farmers who are taking time out from seeding to plough firebreaks around their neighbours' houses. Canadian farmers know the cost of climate change, and they know we have to do something about it.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, does she know the thanks they got for taking their tractors to do that? They had to pay a carbon tax on the fuel to cut those fire lines. They would not have gotten a single penny back from the government.

The answer to my first question is $8 billion. Small business in this country is going to pay $8 billion in carbon taxes in 2023. How much money are they going to get back? Zero.

Is the finance minister going to do anything with respect to that $8 billion coming out of the pockets of small business?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, we know how important small business is. That is why, after years of Conservative inaction, we were able to lower credit card interchange fees, and Dan Kelly was with me in Brampton to make that announcement. We do not just talk the talk. We walk the walk when it comes to supporting small businesses.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, does the finance minister know what the cost will be for an Ontario family as a result of carbon tax 2 in the fourth quintile?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, there is no such thing as carbon tax 2. There is something called the clean fuel—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, it is incredibly distressing that I have asked five questions today, but the finance minister cannot answer a single one. She is supposed to be responsible for the finances of this nation. Instead, we get bromides about how great things are. It will cost the average Canadian family $611 as a result of carbon tax 2.

What is the cost the average Ontario family is going to pay as a result of carbon tax 1 and carbon tax 2?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, what is incredibly disappointing is not only that the Conservatives have disavowed the admittedly weak climate plan they campaigned on in 2021 but also that they do not have a plan at all now.

How can they fail to answer the single biggest economic question of the 21st century and ask any Canadian to take them seriously?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Madam Chair, how can Canadians take the finance minister seriously? She has been sitting here all night and has not had a number in response to a single financial question that is asked by Canadians.

How can any Canadian have faith in what she does?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I think Canadians do have faith, because they know that our government's policies have created 900,000 more jobs since the depths of the COVID recession. That is 129% job—