Debates of May 29th, 2023

Department of Finance—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Battlefords—Lloydminster.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Madam Chair, does the minister apply a rural lens to the development of their failed policies?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, she said she would improve the clean fuel regulations to reduce carbon emissions from every litre of gasoline and other liquid fuels—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Madam Chair, again, I am asking: Does the minister apply a rural lens to the development of her failed policies?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, the question is: Is the member opposite disavowing the platform she and her colleagues ran on?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Madam Chair, again, one more time: Does the minister apply a rural lens to her failed policies that she is implementing on Canadians?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I know that Canadian farmers, like every single other Canadian, suffer the impact of climate change and they need a climate plan.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Chair, I will provide some remarks and then I will have some questions for the minister. I would start off by reflecting on some of the discourse that has occurred in the House just in the last 15 minutes or so.

We just had a Conservative member almost take great pleasure in the fact that the inflation rate from March to April rose by 0.1%. It actually makes me stop and wonder if Conservatives get excited when they see the inflation rate rise because they see it as a political opportunity. I would hate to think that is the case, but the way they react to such a marginal and tiny change in the inflation rate in terms of going from 4.3% to 4.4%, one would think that they just cracked one of the biggest mysteries in the country and were providing some great insight into how only Conservatives know anything about economic principles and how an economy works.

Then we just came off the heels of another discussion of a member taking great exception to the fact that, yes, Conservatives ran on pricing pollution. They ran on a carbon tax. The member for Battlefords—Lloydminster ran on that. It was in her platform when she ran in the last election—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I did not.

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind members that they may not like what they hear, unfortunately it would be a point of debate, and so I would ask members to wait until it is time for questions and comments if they happen to have their turn.

On a point of order, the hon. member for Battlefords—Lloydminster.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Madam Chair, it is a mischaracterization of what I did do. I did not do that. So I would ask—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Again, this becomes a point of debate. This is something that we hear on a regular basis within the House of Commons. These are points of debate as to what he said, she said, what she did, he did. I would just indicate that those are points of debate. This is not a point of order.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Well she did, Madam Chair. All the Conservatives came out with a platform, before the last election, and it said they would impose a price on pollution, albeit it was slightly different from ours. It was more of an Air Miles-type plan where one got points and got to pick prizes afterwards, but the Conservatives ran on the basic fundamental principle of it. That member did.

Conservatives knocked on doors, 338 of them, trying to sell that to Canadians. I think they do owe an explanation to Canadians as to why they have now flip-flopped on that. That is what the minister was trying to highlight earlier in her responses.

What I really want to talk about is what this budget is doing, in terms of setting a course into the future, in terms of laying the groundwork for the future economies. Just about every political party in this House gets it, except the Conservatives, that the future success of our economy or any economy in this world for that matter, in the foreseeable future, is going to be around clean technology.

We know that clean technology is expected to triple by 2030. We have the opportunity now to be at the forefront of that, not just so that we could do the environmentally responsible thing, but we could benefit from the economics of it, being at the forefront of it and exporting that technology as we develop it here in Canada.

That is why I am very pleased to see that this budget had a number of measures in it to ensure that we have the strong foundation we need, that we have a safe, smart and competitive place to do business, that we have opportunities ahead, and that we do recognize that there are some challenges around it and we suggest ways to tackle those challenges. That is what I really want to talk about this evening, and what I would like to ask the minister about when I get to my questions.

We talk about a strong foundation for providing that economy of the future. What does that mean? It means ensuring that we encourage investment in clean technology, ensuring that we get access to those critical minerals and making zero-emissions vehicles more affordable, like this budget is doing. That means tackling public transit in a way that is meaningful and genuinely impacts the lives of Canadians, that means building housing and encouraging development around transit systems and transit routes, all in the interest of looking towards opportunities to genuinely create the foundation that we need in order to allow this new and future economy to flourish here in Canada. That is what we are seeing, by laying that groundwork and establishing that foundation.

However to do that, to attract that business, we need to ensure that, as I indicated, we have a safe, smart and competitive place to do business here in Canada. One of the underpinnings of that is a stable democracy, one that has the social supports, one that has supports for individuals who, for some reason, become unemployed or need health care or dental care. People want to establish businesses in areas that have those strong social supports.

Corporations are changing. They are not like what they were during the Industrial Revolution or even in the following 50, 75 or 100 years. They are looking for places to do business that have clean energy sources. I am immediately reminded of Umicore. The Prime Minister came to Queen's University last summer, with our provincial counterparts, with some of my Conservative colleagues from neighbouring ridings of Kingston and the Islands to announce Umicore coming to our region in Loyalist Township, just outside of my riding of Kingston and the Islands.

The one takeaway for me on that was when the president of Umicore was asked why he chose Ontario, when he had all these other places in North America that he could have decided on. Why Ontario? He said that they were building a sustainable product. They want to know that what goes into that product is sustainable. He said that there is clean energy here, and they use a lot of energy.

Finally, we are seeing this shift in the corporate world where businesses are now taking on this responsibility to be more environmentally sustainable where perhaps for decades before we never really saw that. I give credit especially to the former Liberal government in Ontario that phased out the burning of coal in Ontario to make electricity. It established and built renewable energy projects like windmills on Wolfe Island, one of the two islands in Kingston and the Islands. It was hugely contested at the time. Both sides of the debate were locking heads repeatedly for years, but the provincial government at the time pushed through and said it was the right thing to do and that Ontario needed to do it. As a result, Ontario now has one of the cleanest grids in North America, and that is why Umicore said it wanted to establish in Ontario.

This is what we talk about when we talk about establishing the right places to do business. It is by making sure that we have put the infrastructure in place, by making sure we have those social supports and a strong democracy, and by ensuring we have competitive corporate tax rates. That is what we need to do.

When we look ahead, we talk about the fact that clean tech and clean energy are expected to triple globally by 2030. We have an opportunity here to be at the forefront of this, and I genuinely believe that some of the measures this government has put in place over the years, and in particular what we have been seeing in this budget and the last one, really highlight how we are putting ourselves in that competitive position to outperform some of our partners.

However, there are some challenges, and I know it is responsible that in the budget the government is discussing some of those challenges, so that is what I would like to ask the minister about: how we are going to overcome some of those challenges.

In particular, there are two things that come to mind. One is that we must build the framework, including the infrastructure, for the long-term investments. That is going to be a big challenge. That is something we need to work with our provincial counterparts on. One of the other challenges is the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act's posing, perhaps, problems in terms of our ability to be competitive.

My questions to the minister will really focus on how we properly position ourselves to be at the forefront of that, given the fact that we do have some of these challenges before us. I would start with that question.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I want to start with a heartfelt tribute to my colleague from Kingston and the Islands. We have been talking a lot about COVID and the COVID recession, and that is appropriate, because we are still dealing with the consequences of that economic and physical trauma to Canada and Canadians. My colleague, the member for Kingston and the Islands, played such a huge role in the work of our government and the work of our parliamentary caucus in that incredibly difficult time, and hearing his eloquence this evening reminded me of that, so I am glad to have the opportunity to publicly thank him very much.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, I appreciate the comment.

When we do look toward the future, in Canada, because of the educational institutions we have, because of the labour force we have, because of the incredibly talented people and because of that social infrastructure we have here, which companies are looking for when they look to relocate, we really put ourselves in a position of being able to succeed in terms of attracting that new technology of the future.

I am wondering if the minister could comment on where she sees some of the potential issues we might see along the way and what the government would be doing to ensure we can get through those and see that prosperity in the future.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, that is a really important question, and I think when historians look back on 2022 and 2023 they are going to note that these were the years we were coming out of the pandemic. Just as when we look back at the early years of the 20th century, we talk about the Spanish flu, but we talk even more about the great transformations at the beginning of the past century, I think historians are going to say 2022 and 2023 were the years that the world's great industrial economies got serious about climate change and about the industrial transformation it requires.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, one of the other things that we are talking about when we talk about a transformation is electrifying our country and changing it in a way that we are not used to. A lot of work would have to go into that. Of course, this is something that we would have to do in conjunction with our provincial and territorial partners to make sure that we not only have the resources in place and the supports that they need but that we also do this in a relatively quick manner. In this way, we can ensure that we can see the prosperity that comes with a transformation of our economy.

Could the minister comment on how she sees that happening? Given the fact that our provincial and territorial partners are going to be as heavily impacted as we would be at the federal level, how important is the role of working with these partners in developing and executing such plans?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, it is essential. As we have been saying, this is an economic transformation that is comparable only to the Industrial Revolution itself.

As with the Industrial Revolution, some countries did it better than others. Those countries that seized the advantage reaped generational benefits and, for generations, raced ahead in terms of the prosperity and health of their people relative to the countries that did not seize that opportunity.

A comparable moment is upon us, and that is why this budget was so important. We knew we had to seize the moment for Canada, which is what we are doing, and we are already seeing the reaction from investors. This is a great opportunity for us; we are going to take advantage of it.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair, I very much appreciate that answer, because it makes a great parallel between the Industrial Revolution and the countries that seized on an opportunity versus those that just waited and saw what their role would be in it. I think that it is very clear that Canada is doing the same thing right now by seizing on the opportunity.

Could the minister comment on some of those initiatives and how they have translated into businesses like Umicore choosing Canada?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, yes, our price on pollution is foundational. We then have our system of tax credits and our system of concessional finance through the Canada growth fund. On top of that, for specific projects, we have funding through SIF and the Department of Natural Resources.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Chair, I am sure the minister has figured out that I am here to ask questions about the environment.

In budget 2023, she announced clean technology investment tax credits that could be worth up to $80 billion over 10 years. One such credit is a tax credit for clean electricity.

To your knowledge, would a project that uses energy other than renewable energy be eligible for this credit?

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I must remind the hon. member to address her remarks to the Chair and not directly to the minister.

The hon. Minister of Finance.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I thank my colleague for her question, which is truly important.

These credits for investing in electricity are truly key to the creation of a green economy. As my colleague opposite understands very well, we will need much more electricity than we need at present. Canada has a great advantage: it has a green electricity.

I will continue—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Repentigny.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Chair, I have another question along the same lines.

Could a company that operates one or more coal plants benefit from this tax credit?