Debates of May 29th, 2023

Department of Finance—Main Estimates, 2023-24

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Mr. Chair, can the minister talk about some of the things we are doing to mitigate the climate crisis we have? We are seeing fires and hurricanes. We are seeing, all across Canada, the impact of climate change.

Can the minister talk about what our government is doing to address that?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is really appropriate for us to have a question from one of our Nova Scotia MPs about that issue, because wildfires are now burning there. They were burning in the home province of my colleague, the Associate Minister of Finance. This is more proof that we do need to act on climate, and we are.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is the first government budget that we could describe as a postpandemic budget. Obviously no one here in Parliament is to blame for the virus. However, the programs that might have helped us to get through the pandemic at the time are the responsibility of this Parliament. We need to learn important lessons and make corrections. We also need to prepare for the next crisis that could arise.

The government boasts about having signed agreements with the provinces on health. These agreements were imposed. Out of the demands that were made by the provinces and Quebec, only $1 out of $6 was granted. Before the Liberals came along, the transfers covered 24% of provincial health costs. Now they cover just 22%. With these new agreements, which are not real agreements, we are back to 24%. They are perpetuating the chronic underfunding of health.

Does the minister recognize that the federal government's chronic underfunding has left us short on hospital beds and that the measures to counter the pandemic, which hurt our economy, had to be excessively extended?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Chair, I agree that health care is a priority for Quebeckers and for all Canadians. That is why we made a historic investment of almost $200 billion for health care in the budget. That is really a lot of money. However, we know that it was the right thing to do because for Quebec and for all the provinces, health care is essential. That is why we made this investment.

We also made huge investments during the pandemic. We supported the provinces and territories, including Quebec, obviously. Nine out of 10 dollars spent during the pandemic were spent by the federal government. It was the right thing to do, but the result today is that some provinces, including Quebec, are in a position—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Mirabel.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, the minister confirmed that she supports the ongoing underfunding and that she also borrowed on behalf of the provinces. This is not a gift from the federal government. The money that the federal government sent during the pandemic was borrowed money.

Now there is no money for health care, but there is money for a dental plan. This is being done with the help of the federal spending power, which is the instrument of the fiscal imbalance.

The federal government is going to expand this program. The Government of Quebec and the Quebec National Assembly are unanimously calling for Quebec to be given the right to opt out with full financial compensation.

Will the Liberal government give Quebec the right to opt out with full financial compensation?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we came up with a good solution with Quebec regarding day care and our national system. We understood that Quebec's approach was different and we came up with a good solution.

I am absolutely sure that my colleague, the Minister of Health, will also find a good solution for Quebec regarding dental care. We understand that the situation in Quebec is different.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, I like clear answers.

Do the minister and her government plan to offer the Government of Quebec the right to opt out with full compensation? Yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, relations between the federal government and the provinces are complex. Health care and dental care are complex. I will clearly repeat that we are sure that we can find—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Mirabel.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, I notice that the longer the answers are, the more they seem like a “no” in disguise.

We know that during the pandemic, health care was underfunded, that there was a shortage of hospital beds that led to people being turned away, and that the pandemic measures needed to be extended.

If, during the pandemic, we had had a dental plan like the one the minister is planning, how many more hospital beds would Quebec have had as a result of that dental plan?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, the pandemic was truly a crisis for the entire country. That being said, I think that we as Canadians and Quebeckers can be proud, in general, of our national response. If we compare Canada to the United States—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, during the pandemic, we saw significant gaps in the social safety net, especially Canada's social safety net, which led to the use of a set of temporary measures. Naturally, all parties quickly agreed to them. One temporary measure after another was implemented. Ultimately, these measures were poorly targeted and very costly.

Although it does not want to do so for China, does the government plan to launch a public inquiry into the reasons for these gaps in our social safety net so that, in the event of another crisis, we need not reintroduce the temporary measures one by one, since we know how costly they will be for taxpayers and future generations?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not agree with my Bloc colleague. I believe that, faced with a historic global crisis, Canada demonstrated tremendous social solidarity. Let us compare Canada and the United States. If Canada had had the same mortality rate as the United States, 70,000 more Canadians would have died. That is a big difference.

No, our response was not perfect, but our results were good, not just compared with the United States, but with all G7 countries except Japan.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is the EI spring gap for temporary workers. There is the problem of inadequate coverage through the EI system. There is the actuarial financing of the EI fund, which is poorly suited to economic cycles and major disasters like the one we just went through. We have been calling for EI reform for years. Since 2015, the Liberals have been promising EI reform, but we have seen nothing of the sort.

Most recently, we were promised EI reform by August 2023, which is right around the corner. There was absolutely nothing in the budget. The actuarial calculation shows that an extra $25 billion will be taken from the pockets of unemployed workers between now and 2030.

Is the minister committed to keeping her government's promise to reform EI, or to at least announce a reform, by August 2023?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to remind the House, but especially my Bloc colleague, that during the pandemic, the government put an additional $27 billion into the EI system to offset all the expenses the system had to incur. The federal government supported our EI system.

I can also say that what Canadians want is a strong economy and jobs. That is the most important thing. Our government and our country are in a really good position today when it comes to—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, indeed, just over $25 billion in additional funding was put into EI during the crisis. That was a small portion of the $250 billion to $300 billion that the Government of Canada spent to help Canadians and Quebeckers during the pandemic.

For the other programs, unlike EI, Quebeckers and Canadians have decided to stand in solidarity and band together to cover all of these pandemic-related expenses through the government's consolidated fund. In this case, the government is going to take another $25 billion out of the pockets of businesses and unemployed workers over the next seven years.

Does the government not think that it should show solidarity and treat this spending as pandemic spending instead of dipping into people's pockets for the next seven years?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, the $27 billion we have invested in our EI system is not a small amount. That is a lot of money. It was important and necessary; it was the right thing to do. We were there for Canadians during the pandemic. Today, we continue to be there for Canadians, and that includes through the EI system.

The good news is that the labour market is very strong today in Canada. Yes, we understand that we need an EI system. However, Canadians do not want employment insurance; they want a good job. That is what we have today in Canada.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, this budget allocates approximately $80 billion for so-called green subsidies. We do not know whether they are green or not because the government has always refused to define what constitutes an effective fossil fuel subsidy.

Approximately 30% of these subsidies go directly to fossil fuels. That is approximately $24 billion to $25 billion. Is the Minister of Finance not embarrassed to tell unemployed workers in Quebec and the rest of Canada that she is going to take $25 billion to $27 billion out of their pockets when that money is going directly to fossil fuels?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, our government absolutely understands the importance of climate action and investing in a green economy. That is what we have done.

With the budget, we now have a $120‑billion plan to create a clean economy. Today, we are seeing that we have really started to attract investments. We are also seeing that emissions are coming down. Our plan is working.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to the wage subsidy program, the government got helping workers confused with Halloween because the Liberal Party was caught with both hands in the candy bowl. Liberal Party of Canada employees received wage subsidies.

Does the minister think that the political parties that benefited from wage subsidies should have to pay taxpayers back?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we understood during the pandemic that it was an historic crisis. We understood that it was important to have a response that measured up to the historic nature of this crisis.

That is what we did. We supported Canadians across the country and that was the right thing to do.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, this democratic chamber, the House of Commons, voted in favour of a bill introduced by my colleague from Lévis—Lotbinière, from the Conservative Party. This bill would enable people with very serious illnesses to receive 52 weeks of employment insurance sickness benefits.

The minister is offering six months, but in many cases, including when chemotherapy is needed, treatments can last from six months to two years.

Is the minister telling these sick people that they have to go back to work?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, as my colleague said in his question, our government has already added weeks to employment insurance for people with serious illnesses. That is the right thing to do, and we are proud of taking this very important step.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, approximately 60% of workers who lose their jobs will not be covered by EI.

Does the minister believe that to be a sufficient rate of coverage?