Debates of May 3rd, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I just want to remind all members in the House, when they are asking questions, or answering them, to try to be respectful to each other.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the question was for the Prime Minister, and he should have the courage to stand up and answer it.

The former head of CSIS indicates that a briefing note with explosive revelations about a threat against the family of a member of Parliament would have been brought to the Prime Minister's top advisers. His top adviser says everything is brought to the Prime Minister. It is impossible to believe that he was not made aware of these threats two years ago when they were documented by his own intelligence services.

How does the Prime Minister expect us to believe such a ridiculous claim?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, does the member opposite really think that by exaggerating his rhetoric and lobbing attacks at the government, he is doing any service to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills?

Of course the members of this government care about the safety and security of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and his family. That is why we provided a briefing for him yesterday. It was not the first briefing that he received. We will continue to do the work to protect the members that work in this space and our democratic institutions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, if intelligence services would not tell the Prime Minister about this, what would they tell him about?

It is hard to imagine a threat to the security of our democracy that is more grave than members of Parliament having their families threatened because of how they voted on the floor of the House of Commons. If the intelligence agency is not telling the Prime Minister these things, it is because he is not competent enough to ask for them.

There are two options. Either he did not know and he is incompetent, or he did know and he is dishonest. Which is it?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, we put confidence in our intelligence agencies to take the actions that are necessary when threats are posed against members in this chamber.

As we heard, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was briefed yesterday. He has been briefed on a number of occasions. The Liberal government will continue to ensure that parliamentarians are getting timely and concrete briefings. We have issued fresh instructions to CSIS on this point, so that we can protect the people and the families that work in this space, as well as our democratic institutions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, they are not protecting anybody but themselves. The same agent for Beijing who carried out the threats against the family of a member of Parliament is able to do so because he has diplomatic immunity from Canadian laws. If any other Canadian had done this, they would be charged and in jail, but because the Prime Minister has given diplomatic immunity and credentials to this agent, he is able to act with impunity right here on Canadian soil. Even if they believe the Prime Minister's far-fetched claim that he did not know about this until Monday, since Monday he has not kicked that agent out. Why is that?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I am afraid the Conservative leader is inventing the laws around diplomatic immunity.

More important, it is this government that has introduced new laws to provide CSIS with the powers necessary to protect parliamentarians and Canadians from foreign interference. It is this government that has raised the bar on transparency by creating NSICOP and NSIRA. We will continue to work with all members of Parliament so we can ensure they are able to represent their constituencies in a way that is safe and secure from foreign interference.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I find it irresponsible at best, and perhaps imprudent, for the Prime Minister to say he knew nothing and to systematically attack the quality, integrity and service of Canada's intelligence officers. Heaven knows that coming from a sovereignist, this is no trivial statement.

I would like to hear, from whoever wants to answer, if we are really sure that Mr. Trudeau, the PM's brother, Mr. Johnston and Mr. Rosenberg are above reproach.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the government appointed Mr. Johnston, a distinguished Canadian, as a national security adviser.

Mr. Johnston will make recommendations, which may include holding a public inquiry if necessary. That is another tangible example of how this government has put in place policies and resources to counter foreign interference.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is fine, but let me try to clarify something.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he has had no contact with the foundation for 10 years. Let us assume we are a naive bunch and say that is true.

That is not what I was asking yesterday. It was a supplementary question. If the Prime Minister's brother were to be implicated by the Canada Revenue Agency, by another authority or even by the committee, would the Prime Minister acknowledge that he is not qualified to be involved in appointing the chair of a public commission of inquiry?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has said several times, there is no connection between him and the Trudeau Foundation, either direct or indirect. It is very clear.

The foundation is responsible for granting scholarships. I think it is entirely irresponsible to attack an independent foundation.

If the leader of the Bloc Québécois has any questions, he should ask the foundation.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the revelations about threats made against a member of Parliament and his family are disturbing.

It is also disturbing that the Minister of Public Safety cannot say when he was informed of these threats.

The minister has had 24 hours for someone to jog his memory, so now can he tell us when he was informed of these threats?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that we have laws to protect information that is classified as “top secret”.

We rely on the advice of our independent, non-partisan public servants to guide us in decisions about disclosing information. CSIS briefed the member for Wellington—Halton Hills yesterday.

We will continue to work with all members of Parliament to protect the people who work in our democratic institutions.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the government understands how serious this is. We have a member of Parliament, and his family, being threatened by a foreign government for the work he does in Parliament. That is a problem. That is something serious. The government is not taking it seriously. I have written a letter to the Prime Minister to call all party leaders to deal with this really serious matter.

In the meantime, could the government and the Prime Minister inform the House of whether there are any other members of Parliament who are currently the subject of similar threats?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, of course we care for the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, which is why we have been providing him support through multiple briefings from CSIS, as we care for the safety and security of all members in the chamber, the people who support them and their families. That is why the government, since day one, has been giving additional powers to CSIS to address concerns about foreign interference.

I would just pause to note that we are in a different era. This threat landscape has become much more complex. The government will continue to be vigilant when it comes to protecting our democratic institutions and the people who work within them.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in reference to the July 2021 intelligence assessment, this morning, the Prime Minister said, “CSIS made the determination that it wasn't something that needed be raised to a higher level”, but former CSIS director Dick Fadden said that the assessment would certainly have been sent to the Department of Public Safety, the Department Foreign Affairs and the Prime Minister's national security adviser, who appears to have been David Morrison, the current deputy minister of foreign affairs.

Will the government confirm the Prime Minister's assertion this morning that the intelligence assessment never made it out of CSIS?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I can certainly confirm that we are guided by the advice we get from our intelligence agencies, which is strictly governed under the Security of Information Act, as my colleague across the aisle knows.

It is important that we navigate this very carefully because when we talk about matters that relate to national security, it is people's lives that are at stake: the people who work for CSIS, within the law enforcement community and in this chamber, including the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. That is why we briefed him numerous times. We will continue to ensure his safety and security so we can protect the people who work within these institutions.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, Dick Fadden said today the assessment would certainly have been sent to the departments of foreign affairs and public safety and to the Prime Minister's national security adviser. Cherie Henderson, a CSIS assistant director, recently testified, “I can say that we definitely have seen specific cases of hostile activities of states against politicians. In those specific cases, we definitely brief our government on the challenges that are being faced.”

How are we supposed to reconcile these differing and conflicting accounts?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I would hope that the member opposite would be able to reconcile that with his own personal experience, which was that, within the last 24 hours, he not only received a briefing, but also, on a number of occasions, received support from CSIS—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I am having a hard time hearing the hon. minister. The hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills has asked a question, for which he deserves to hear the response, so I am going to ask everyone to bring it down a notch to listen to what the hon. minister has to say.

The hon. Minister of Public Safety can begin from the top, please.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying before I was interrupted by the Conservatives across the aisle, the member opposite has received briefings from CSIS on a number of occasions. That is one of the ways in which we are attempting to address the concerns that have been raised around foreign interference.

More importantly than that, we have put in place people, resources, new laws and transparency mechanisms to shine a light on the way in which we are combatting foreign interference, so we can protect the people in this chamber, as well as their loved ones. That is our paramount objective.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the only light that is being shone is by the Globe and Mail on the government's failure to keep parliamentarians informed and safe when foreign actors are threatening them.

We heard very clearly from CSIS officials at committee who said, “In those specific cases, we definitely brief our government on the challenges that are being faced.” We heard from the Prime Minister's own chief of staff that the Prime Minister is a voracious reader of all the briefing notes that come across his desk. Are we supposed to believe that the Globe and Mail gets briefed by CSIS before the Prime Minister?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, those types of absurd suggestions do not advance this debate, neither does the suggestion that we do not care about the members opposite or their safety and security.

As I said yesterday, there are intense debates in the chamber about both foreign and domestic policy, but rest assured that the members of this government will do everything in their power to fight against foreign interference to protect the members who work in the chamber, and their families, so we can defend our democratic institutions. That is something we should all be united behind.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the exact opposite has proven to be true. For two years, they failed to inform the member for Wellington—Halton Hills about these threats against his family. This is an attack on all parliamentarians. We have now known, based on the reports in the Globe and Mail, that the government knew two years ago.

The question is very simple, and instead of the minister carrying on with non-answers, he needs to be very direct. When did the minister's office become aware of this specific instance?