Debates of May 30th, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we asked Mr. Johnston to conduct a detailed analysis of all the facts and all the information compiled by the intelligence services in order to look into the context, to look into the work done by the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency and the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, and to evaluate whether a public inquiry would help restore public trust. He came to the conclusion that this would not be the best approach.

He will be holding public hearings over the summer to talk about it with Canadians. In his opinion, a public inquiry is unnecessary.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the appointment of a former member of the Trudeau Foundation, a family friend and a friend to China was not legitimate. The findings and the report have no legitimacy. Mr. Johnston's obstinacy in designating himself to continue on with this matter is wrong.

If Mr. Johnston refuses to recuse himself, as Parliament may well ask him to do, will the Prime Minister have the dignity and statesmanship to remove him from his role and create an independent commission of public inquiry?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, what is interesting is that the leader of the Bloc Québécois, who is concerned about legitimacy and facts, refuses to be briefed on the secret and confidential information that CSIS has compiled on the matter.

He also refuses to accept the facts, to accept reality, so he can carry on with these debates and partisan attacks in the House.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government's approach to foreign interference has been a failure. The Prime Minister decided to bring in a special rapporteur, which was a mistake. He should have launched a public inquiry. Now the appearance of bias is so strong that the special rapporteur can no longer continue to do his work.

Will the Prime Minister do the right thing and remove the special rapporteur from his position and restore Canadians' confidence in our electoral system?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, David Johnston is an eminent Canadian who has served this government and this country for decades. The reality is he was appointed a number of times by former prime minister Stephen Harper to important responsibilities, including to be governor general of this country. He has undertaken this responsibility and this task of looking at foreign interference and reporting back to Canadians with the seriousness one would expect of him. It is unfortunate the opposition parties are choosing to play politics around this issue instead of actually standing up for—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Burnaby South.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knows that the appearance of bias is so strong in this case that Mr. Johnston cannot continue to do his work to restore confidence in the system.

Our motion calls on the Prime Minister to remove Mr. Johnston from his role. It is clear that the allegations of foreign interference are serious.

Will the Prime Minister finally take these allegations seriously and immediately launch a public inquiry?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been taking allegations of interference and concerns about foreign interference seriously since 2015. That is why we implemented many mechanisms to counter interference. That is why we have relied on experts like Rosenberg and Johnston to follow up on what we are doing and to make recommendations on how to move forward.

We will continue to take this issue seriously. We will continue to let the facts and the intelligence gathered by our agencies guide our reflections and actions in this regard.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Prime Minister appointed a member of the Liberal Trudeau Foundation, advised by a Liberal donor, to decide whether to investigate Liberal cabinet ministers and Liberal staff about what they knew and when they knew it, but, do not worry, another Liberal Trudeau Foundation cleared the conflict. That is the story in Ottawa.

Canadians say it is not good enough and Conservatives say it is not good enough. Even the NDP is making a half-attempt at appearing to say that it is not good enough. It is not good enough. It is a cover-up.

How can the government not call a public inquiry?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the only cover-up that is occurring right now is the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, who continues to cover his own eyes from the classified briefing that we offer him. The irony is that a member of his own Conservative caucus, the member for Durham, at least took a briefing from CSIS.

Now I say, through you, Mr. Speaker, to the member: take the briefing, learn the information and do the work of fighting foreign interference together.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister will be remembered for silencing Canadians, and he will not silence this opposition.

David Johnston should not be the special rapporteur. There should not be a special rapporteur. There needs to be an independent public inquiry and it needs to happen today. The only thing that could possibly restore trust in this place is a real investigation into political interference and the only people who believe that should not happen are the Liberals.

I want to know from the minister what it will take for him to listen to Canadians being harassed by a dictatorship and listen to the members of this House who were targeted. What will it take for him to end the cover-up?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, if the member opposite had been paying attention, she would have noted that we did a public consultation on the creation of a foreign agent registry by listening to Canadians, by working with diaspora communities to make sure that we understand their concerns around marginalization and stigmatization. The best way forward is for the Conservative Party of Canada to take the briefing.

I have a simple question, through you, Mr. Speaker, to them. When will you take the briefing?

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Beijing interfered in two federal elections and helped the Liberals win. It threatened members of Parliament of this House and their families. It donated $140,000 to the Trudeau Foundation to influence the Prime Minister's decisions. These are very serious matters of foreign interference that require a full public inquiry. Unfortunately, we all knew that the fix was in when the Prime Minister appointed a member of the Trudeau Foundation, who also happens to be his neighbour and a long-time family friend, and then gave him a fake fancy title.

Why the cover-up?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, we have been taking the work of fighting against foreign interference very seriously since 2015. Again, the contradiction is the Conservatives, who want to say they are taking this seriously, yet voted against the new authorities that we granted to our national security establishment to fight this scourge. The fact that they do not want to support taking a briefing so that they can equip themselves with the information to have a responsible, thoughtful conversation about this I think lays bare that they do not take it seriously.

Again, when will you take the briefing?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I kind of let it slide as members were doing it indirectly and it was kind of a grey zone, but I am going ask hon. members to ask their questions through the Speaker, not directly to members, even if they put a prefix on it.

The hon. member for Edmonton Mill Woods.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not only concerning that Canadian elected officials are being threatened, but Canadians who disagree with Beijing are also very concerned. The executive director of the Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project said, “Johnston's recommendations for hearings rather than a formal inquiry was 'shockingly' disappointing.” Mabel Tung, chairwoman of the Vancouver Society in Support of Democratic Movement, said, “It gives us a feeling that we are not safe for speaking our minds as Canadians.”

The government is failing Canadians with its self-serving cover-up. What is it hiding?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear that we share the concerns of the diaspora community leadership, who are worried about being targeted by foreign interference. That is why we conducted a public consultation on the foreign agent registry, and that is why we think there are compelling, intelligent reasons a public hearing would put the community at the centre of these conversations, so that we can have a thoughtful way forward in the work to protect our democratic institutions and in fighting against foreign interference.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this farce has gone on long enough. With the special rapporteur's report, the Prime Minister's shenanigans to avoid launching a public inquiry have been exposed for all to see.

What is really so special about this rapporteur are his ties to the Trudeau Foundation, his reliance on Liberal donors, his status as an old friend of China and, most of all, his close friendship with the Prime Minister's family.

When will the Prime Minister end this charade, fire Mr. Johnston and launch an independent public inquiry?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, what was truly exposed for all to see was the Leader of the Opposition's credibility when he refused the government's offer to grant him access to highly sensitive information.

He decided he would rather play partisan politics on an issue as critical as protecting our democratic institutions from foreign interference than get the facts so he could speak publicly and coherently based on the facts, instead of simply spouting partisan accusations.

This is what was exposed. My colleague must be a little disappointed in his leader.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, let us talk about this government's credibility.

On April 27, the Minister of Public Safety said that the RCMP had closed two of Beijing's police stations in Quebec. We then found out that the two Beijing police stations had not received any closure requests from the RCMP. We even learned that one of the police stations on the south shore of Montreal had received nearly $200,000 from this government.

Is the Minister of Public Safety essentially the Prime Minister's misinformation puppet? Who is pulling the misinformation strings?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said many times, the RCMP has already taken meaningful action with regard to the activities involving foreign interference and these alleged police stations. The RCMP will carry on with the tools that this government has given it.

It is the Conservatives who opposed the bill to give new tools to our national security establishment. That is a contradiction. The Conservatives need to reverse their position.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since we found out that there was Chinese interference in the election process, the government has been acting as though it is in charge of elections. It is acting as though Parliament does not have a say and democracy falls under the exclusive authority of the Prime Minister.

It is pretty crazy that the majority of parliamentarians elected by the majority of the population have less clout than an unelected rapporteur, a friend of the Prime Minister who was appointed by the Prime Minister and reports to the Prime Minister.

Will the Prime Minister finally launch an independent public commission of inquiry, as the majority of elected members of the House are asking him to do?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we were disappointed but not surprised that the leader of the Bloc Québécois refused to have access to the most important and confidential information from CSIS. That would have given him a clearer picture of the facts in the whole matter of foreign interference.

I, too, used to be an opposition member. I understand that sometimes the truth is hard for the opposition. However, this time, we made an offer to the opposition party leaders, including the leader of the Bloc Québécois and the Conservative Party leader. They refused to get access to this information because they prefer to play political games.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals' answer to getting to the bottom of foreign interference is to ask the leaders of the opposition parties to read confidential information that they will never be able to discuss publicly. We already had a Prime Minister who refused to keep the public informed. Now, on top of that, we have opposition party leaders who would not be allowed to do so.

We need more transparency, not less. We need more transparency and less secrecy. What we need is an independent public commission of inquiry that guarantees greater transparency than a rapporteur who is neither public nor independent.

Seriously, what are they waiting for?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, public hearings are not the only way to demonstrate respect for the value of transparency.

It was our government that created the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. It was our government that created the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency. There are plenty of examples of how we can move forward with a national discussion to better protect our democratic institutions. Our government wants to work with all members of the House.